Sovereign Weight Tolerance

[DrDave]

Tolerance or margin?

Anyway, a full gold sovereign should weigh 7.988g. but with fair wear and tear, they are going to be less.

In reality, what margin/tolerance would you accept for a 150 year old coin? 

 

[Ukbullionfan]

None. Go get your revenge 

[AurumArgenti]

I'm interested in this too. I have never really been that bothered about old sovereigns till a few months ago. 

Possibly because of my limited knowledge and fear of fakes. 

The historical side is pulling me in though. I need more info.🙂

 

[Pete]

I weigh all my sovereigns and checking found the lowest for an 1800 Vic to be 7.94g
I am sure you will find more worn coins that weigh a bit less, but if the coin shows minimal wear and all the detail is clearly visible I would be concerned if it weighted much less than this.

[DrDave]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

I weigh all my sovereigns and checking found the lowest for an 1800 Vic to be 7.94g
I am sure you will find more worn coins that weigh a bit less, but if the coin shows minimal wear and all the detail is clearly visible I would be concerned if it weighted much less than this.

Thats great. 

I think the one in the pic was 7.95 which i thought would be in range, especially coming from such a reputable seller. 

Maybe @LawrenceChard will give us his opinion. Some say, he can weigh a sovereign by hand to 5 decimal places??!!

[LawrenceChard]

10 minutes ago, Pete said:

I weigh all my sovereigns and checking found the lowest for an 1800 Vic to be 7.94g
I am sure you will find more worn coins that weigh a bit less, but if the coin shows minimal wear and all the detail is clearly visible I would be concerned if it weighted much less than this.

 

4 minutes ago, DrDave said:

Thats great. 

I think the one in the pic was 7.95 which i thought would be in range, especially coming from such a reputable seller. 

Maybe @LawrenceChard will give us his opinion. Some say, he can weigh a sovereign by hand to 5 decimal places??!!

That's an extremely rare date for Victoria!

I think the "Least current weight" is 7.93787 grams. Below that it may not be considered as legal tender.

This does not mean it is not collectable. I would happily buy all underweight 1841s for double their scrap value.

😎

[DrDave]

1 minute ago, LawrenceChard said:

 

That's an extremely rare date for Victoria!

I think the "Least current weight" is 7.93787 grams. Below that it may not be considered as legal tender.

This does not mean it is not collectable. I would happily buy all underweight 1841s for double their scrap value.

😎

Thank you.

Very generous with your knowledge and buying strategy! 

[LawrenceChard]

1 hour ago, DrDave said:

Tolerance or margin?

Anyway, a full gold sovereign should weigh 7.988g. but with fair wear and tear, they are going to be less.

In reality, what margin/tolerance would you accept for a 150 year old coin? 

 

That's very close Dave.

The specified weight is actually 7.98805 grams, sometimes rounded to 7.9881 grams, which is mathematically sound.

You are a lot more accurate than the Royal Mint, who habitually, and incorrectly state sovereigns to be 7.98 grams, which is just plain wrong.

7.99 grams would be better, mathematically speaking.

Most dealers web sites also parrot what the Royal Mint say, including, I am slighlty embarrassed to say, ours.

@ChardsCoinandBullionDealer take note!

😎

[DrDave]

5 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

That's very close Dave.

The specified weight is actually 7.98805 grams, sometimes rounded to 7.9881 grams, which is mathematically sound.

You are a lot more accurate than the Royal Mint, who habitually, and incorrectly state sovereigns to be 7.98 grams, which is just plain wrong.

7.99 grams would be better, mathematically speaking.

Most dealers web sites also parrot what the Royal Mint say, including, I am slighlty embarrassed to say, ours.

@ChardsCoinandBullionDealer take note!

😎

I saw one advertised as 8g today. Must have been a special edition?! 🤪

[Stuntman]

8g would be within tolerance...

It's the same if you read the detailed specs of the 1 oz bullion gold coins and bigger coins.  I think the 1kg coin can be 1.020kg so up to 2% more than the quoted weight.

[Orpster]

1 hour ago, DrDave said:

especially coming from such a reputable seller

Any doubt in your mind Dave you are more than welcome to return any coin you have purchased from me, no quibble refund guaranteed 

My shields are mostly from Atkinsons but some are from the jewellery quarter in Birmingham.  As these were duplicates I may not be able to absolutely identify its origin but if you let me know if it is the Sydney or Melbourne one I sold you I can probably tell you which one of two places I got it.  Exception is if I have had it since before 2005 as the record I had up till that point was lost in a hard drive failure so I would have to work through the receipts and not all of them specify the year and/or mint.  As I say though - happy to accept a return for a full refund.

**EDIT - if it is the Melbourne by the way very happy to take it back, that's a rare with only 748k minted and the one that was hardest to part with even though I have had two  

Edited September 13, 2022 by Orpster

[DrDave]

4 minutes ago, Orpster said:

Any doubt in your mind Dave you are more than welcome to return any coin you have purchased from me, no quibble refund guaranteed 

My shields are mostly from Atkinsons but some are from the jewellery quarter in Birmingham.  As these were duplicates I may not be able to absolutely identify its origin but if you let me know if it is the Sydney or Melbourne one I sold you I can probably tell you which one of two places I got it.  Exception is if I have had it since before 2005 as the record I had up till that point was lost in a hard drive failure so I would have to work through the receipts and not all of them specify the year and/or mint.  As I say though - happy to accept a return for a full refund.

**EDIT - if it is the Melbourne by the way very happy to take it back, that's a rare with only 748k minted and the one that was hardest to part with even though I have had two  

Oh no! I didn't mean it to sound that way. I actually meant that i was confident that it was all good ESPECIALLY because of your reptutation.

I'm so sorry if anybody has misunderstood or been offended by my poor choice of words 😔

[Orpster]

Just now, DrDave said:

Oh no! I didn't mean it to sound that way. I actually meant that i was confident that it was all good ESPECIALLY because of your reptutation.

I'm so sorry if anybody has misunderstood or been offended by my poor choice of words 😔

Oh don’t worry about that Dave I read it as you meant it (nicely) and thanks for the kind words

Collecting shields and any older sovereigns though can be a bit different to general stacking with things like weight, die cracks, minting errors etc.  Its not for everyone and if you do get buyers regret happy to take them back.  I have to say though it’s waaaaaay more fun collecting older sovereigns if a tad more expensive 

[AurumArgenti]

@DrDave sorry for the hijacking of your thread in advance.

Is the marsh guide book sovereign 2021 edition any good?

[Orpster]

2 minutes ago, AurumArgenti said:

@DrDave sorry for the hijacking of your thread in advance.

Is the marsh guide book sovereign 2021 edition any good?

It should be described as the bible for new and experienced stackers alike, a must have in my opinion 

[DrDave]

1 minute ago, Orpster said:

Oh don’t worry about that Dave I read it as you meant it (nicely) and thanks for the kind words

Collecting shields and any older sovereigns though can be a bit different to general stacking with things like weight, die cracks, minting errors etc.  Its not for everyone and if you do get buyers regret happy to take them back.  I have to say though it’s waaaaaay more fun collecting older sovereigns if a tad more expensive 

No, quite the reverse!

I feel like Sherlock Holmes looking at mint marks, incuse WW, long tail (and medium tails?) upside down V in place of A...........the list is endless. Totally fascinating

Love it

2 minutes ago, Orpster said:

It should be described as the bible for new and experienced stackers alike, a must have in my opinion 

Yes. the best money to spend on this 'hobby'. 

[Orpster]

1 minute ago, DrDave said:

No, quite the reverse!

I feel like Sherlock Holmes looking at mint marks, incuse WW, long tail (and medium tails?) upside down V in place of A...........the list is endless. Totally fascinating

Love it

I have an over stamped 2 version of the 1872.  Nearly swapped it out years ago before I knew better, it’s now a recognised variant and even mentioned in the 21 issue Marsh guide

[DrDave]

10 minutes ago, AurumArgenti said:

@DrDave sorry for the hijacking of your thread in advance.

Is the marsh guide book sovereign 2021 edition any good?

No problem.

Yes definitely grab a copy.

Its around £35 on Amazon but you could save that in one purchase with just a little knowledge

[paulmerton]

14 hours ago, Stuntman said:

8g would be within tolerance...

It's the same if you read the detailed specs of the 1 oz bullion gold coins and bigger coins.  I think the 1kg coin can be 1.020kg so up to 2% more than the quoted weight.

I'd expect gold and silver bullion to weigh more than 1oz / 1kg not just because of tolerances but because they are not 1000/1000 fine.

Edited September 14, 2022 by paulmerton

[paulmerton]

14 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

The specified weight is actually 7.98805 grams

Do you know how this magic number came to be?

Is it derived from anything else? e.g. like how the 28.28 (rounded) grams of a crown is ten elevenths of a troy ounce?

[SidS]

2 hours ago, paulmerton said:

Do you know how this magic number came to be?

Is it derived from anything else? e.g. like how the 28.28 (rounded) grams of a crown is ten elevenths of a troy ounce?

Probably because that was the market price in 1663?

When the modern sovereigns were introduced in 1817, they were basically the mass of a guinea minus a shilling's worth of gold iirc.

[Pete]

18 hours ago, DrDave said:

I saw one advertised as 8g today. Must have been a special edition?! 🤪

I checked my data for nearly 30 sovereigns I have dated 2000 to 2022 and every one weighed 8.00 to 8.02g.

[paulmerton]

5 minutes ago, Pete said:

I checked my data for nearly 30 sovereigns I have dated 2000 to 2022 and every one weighed 8.00 to 8.02g.

Surely that suggest your scales are miscalibrated? 🤣