Sovereign type recommendations for a beginner in these fascinating coins

[LawrenceChard]

16 hours ago, dicker said:

@LawrenceChard

In your many years of inspecting Sovereigns, had you come across anything really rare or really special that you would consider as unique - or undiscovered?

Best

Dicker

This was quite an exciting find, from a few years ago: https://www.chards.co.uk/blog/die-numbers-on-victorian-sovereigns/133. The 46 over 45 overstruck die number, it is on an 1872 sov. I did not know any overstruck die numbers existed, but apparently it is, and possibly was, known at the time. The blog page is missing some of that info. It should also have a blog page of its own.

That should be 65 over 64 of course. I don't know where I got 46/45 from!

Edited June 25, 2021 by LawrenceChard
added correction

[dicker]

8 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

This was quite an exciting find, from a few years ago: https://www.chards.co.uk/blog/die-numbers-on-victorian-sovereigns/133. The 46 over 45 overstruck die number, it is on an 1872 sov. I did not know any overstruck die numbers existed, but apparently it is, and possibly was, known at the time. The blog page is missing some of that info. It should also have a blog page of its own.

Excellent - and very interesting.  I found the same recently and posted the attached to the Overdate section.  I think it is fair to say that you don’t see these very frequently!

Best

Dicker
 

 

 

 

[Scootermuppet]

Amazed at not only the range of sub-types of sovereign, but also the depth of knowledge within the forum... I'm only scratching the surface, and learn something new every time I visit. 😁

...and I was determined not to become a collector (of any type of coin), but can see the attraction!

Still a stacker... For now 😉

[LawrenceChard]

4 hours ago, dicker said:

Excellent - and very interesting.  I found the same recently and posted the attached to the Overdate section.  I think it is fair to say that you don’t see these very frequently!

Best

Dicker

Definitely a fake!

(If the colour is anything to go by). 🙂

I found your earlier post, where you mention it is an 1876, but a much more realistic colour.

What's with the colour change? I noticed someone else using a blue saturated image.

It does look like 49 over 49, unless you think the 4 is over a different digit.

Thid double punching is fairly common on shields including in the legends. Yours is quite an extreme example.

My assumption is that double punching is an attempt to disguise, hide, or correct the original error of punching it in the wrong place initially. It does add to the interest of collecting and numismatics.

[dicker]

Hi @LawrenceChard

I inverted the image to try and get some better contrast - which sort of works.

I agree - I think it looks like 49 over 49.  The Royal Mint's quality control issues have a long and distinguished history....

Best

Dicker

[SidS]

If you like dire quality control look no further than William III coinage, some very interesting errors there.

[LawrenceChard]

45 minutes ago, dicker said:

Hi @LawrenceChard

I inverted the image to try and get some better contrast - which sort of works.

I agree - I think it looks like 49 over 49.  The Royal Mint's quality control issues have a long and distinguished history....

Best

Dicker

What happened to turn your earlier image from gold to blue?

[dicker]

16 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

This was quite an exciting find, from a few years ago: https://www.chards.co.uk/blog/die-numbers-on-victorian-sovereigns/133. The 46 over 45 overstruck die number, it is on an 1872 sov. I did not know any overstruck die numbers existed, but apparently it is, and possibly was, known at the time. The blog page is missing some of that info. It should also have a blog pa

2 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

Definitely a fake!

(If the colour is anything to go by). 🙂

I found your earlier post, where you mention it is an 1876, but a much more realistic colour.

What's with the colour change? I noticed someone else using a blue saturated image.

It does look like 49 over 49, unless you think the 4 is over a different digit.

Thid double punching is fairly common on shields including in the legends. Yours is quite an extreme example.

My assumption is that double punching is an attempt to disguise, hide, or correct the original error of punching it in the wrong place initially. It does add to the interest of collecting and numismatics.

I inverted the colour to get a different view of the definition 🙂

I simply took the original image and then used the following link to invert the colours to provide a different view of the definition.  A suggestion by @sovereignsteve.

https://pinetools.com/invert-image-colors

 

Best

Dicker

 

[AgAuEire]

6 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

What happened to turn your earlier image from gold to blue?

The inverse of yellow is blue.  You can invert the colours of images with photoshop, and also on iphone/android and it can show some things you might not see in the normal photo.

[LawrenceChard]

18 hours ago, dicker said:

@LawrenceChard

In your many years of inspecting Sovereigns, had you come across anything really rare or really special that you would consider as unique - or undiscovered?

Best

Dicker

I come across lots of fakes, and they are very interesting, although there are many who can't tell the difference.

Here is one we spotted a few days ago:

1964 - counterfeits of QEII sovereigns are quite rare.

The reverse looks quite polished, but the surface of the obverse are quite dull, so an interesting mismatch. The obverse also lacks detail, and looks like a child's picture.

I asked our photographer to do a serration count, and this is what I got, with this comment "This is the one you requested a serration count on.  They are so uneven I am not confident the count would be accurate - if you want a best guess then it will be close but does this expanded view show the dodgy serrations clear enough for you?  Because they are uneven I cannot easily do a counting grid - that would need to be done by hand and quite time consuming." I replied "Don't worry (about a thing)".

Although we both spotted it from a distance while it was still in a plastic packet, I still put it straight onto the Niton XRF machine.

Note it is overweight, which is a bad sign, and about .850 fine gold. The silver count is also far too high, although it is a nicer colour than most of the modern RM sovereigns.

We also spotted a really obvious fake (1907 London?) yesterday, but did not get chance to do professional quality photos of it. Its owner said she bought it from one of three places, and named The Royal Mint, Bullion by Post, and Hatton Garden Metals.

I willl not go into the rest of the conversation unless anyone is interested.

I can invite guesses though.

She also asked where would have been the best to buy her coins from, and I also invite guesses as to my answer. (Sorry, no prizes!)

🙂

Edited June 25, 2021 by LawrenceChard
my spelling is often better second time around.

[LawrenceChard]

40 minutes ago, dicker said:

I simply took the original image and then used the following link to invert the colours to provide a different view of the definition.  A suggestion by @sovereignsteve.

https://pinetools.com/invert-image-colors

 

Best

Dicker

 

Thanks for the explanation.

What camera and EXIF?

I ask because it looks like quite a close macro.

[dicker]

Very nice photograph.  Lots that gives that one away!

I did think some time ago that if one wanted to launder a large amount of gold then creating quality counterfeits would be a method of disguising the source of the gold.  

I would be most interested in the rest of the conversation!

Best

Dicker

[dicker]

I am using one of these -  doesn’t cost the earth and produces pretty reasonable images.  
 

Best

Dicker
 

https://carson.com/product/mm-840-digital-microscope/

[LawrenceChard]

14 minutes ago, dicker said:

I am using one of these -  doesn’t cost the earth and produces pretty reasonable images.  
 

Best

Dicker
 

https://carson.com/product/mm-840-digital-microscope/

Thanks, I will take a look.

[Bruce06]

1 hour ago, LawrenceChard said:

I come across lots of fakes, and they are very interesting, although there are many who can't tell the difference.

Here is one we spotted a few days ago:

1964 - counterfeits of QEII sovereigns are quite rare.

The reverse looks quite polished, but the surface of the obverse are quite dull, so an interesting mismatch. The obverse also lacks detail, and looks like a child's picture.

I asked our photographer to do a serration count, and this is what I got, with this comment "This is the one you requested a serration count on.  They are so uneven I am not confident the count would be accurate - if you want a best guess then it will be close but does this expanded view show the dodgy serrations clear enough for you?  Because they are uneven I cannot easily do a counting grid - that would need to be done by hand and quite time consuming." I replied "Don't worry (about a thing)".

Although we both spotted it from a distance while it was still in a plastic packet, I still put it straight onto the Niton XRF machine.

Note it is overweight, which is a bad sign, and about .850 fine gold. The silver count is also far too high, although it is a nicer colour than most of the modern RM sovereigns.

We also spotted a really obvious fake (1907 London?) yesterday, but did not get chance to do professional quality photos of it. Its owner said she bought it from one of three places, and named The Royal Mint, Bullion by Post, and Hatton Garden Metals.

I willl not go into the rest of the conversation unless anyone is interested.

I can invite guesses though.

She also asked where would have been the best to buy her coins from, and I also invite guesses as to my answer. (Sorry, no prizes!)

🙂

It's always good to have a look at counterfeit coin picture, so that can learn from it and avoid from falling into another trap.  Never ending learning in this forum 👍.

[Bars]

1 hour ago, LawrenceChard said:

I come across lots of fakes, and they are very interesting, although there are many who can't tell the difference.

Here is one we spotted a few days ago:

1964 - counterfeits of QEII sovereigns are quite rare.

The reverse looks quite polished, but the surface of the obverse are quite dull, so an interesting mismatch. The obverse also lacks detail, and looks like a child's picture.

I asked our photographer to do a serration count, and this is what I got, with this comment "This is the one you requested a serration count on.  They are so uneven I am not confident the count would be accurate - if you want a best guess then it will be close but does this expanded view show the dodgy serrations clear enough for you?  Because they are uneven I cannot easily do a counting grid - that would need to be done by hand and quite time consuming." I replied "Don't worry (about a thing)".

Although we both spotted it from a distance while it was still in a plastic packet, I still put it straight onto the Niton XRF machine.

Note it is overweight, which is a bad sign, and about .850 fine gold. The silver count is also far too high, although it is a nicer colour than most of the modern RM sovereigns.

We also spotted a really obvious fake (1907 London?) yesterday, but did not get chance to do professional quality photos of it. Its owner said she bought it from one of three places, and named The Royal Mint, Bullion by Post, and Hatton Garden Metals.

I willl not go into the rest of the conversation unless anyone is interested.

I can invite guesses though.

She also asked where would have been the best to buy her coins from, and I also invite guesses as to my answer. (Sorry, no prizes!)

🙂

Do tell more.....

[dicker]

For anyone interested this is the setup - works very well on my high res Mac screen.

Best

Dicker

 

[dicker]

I should add a thank you to @LawrenceChard for prompting me to buy my this microscope.  I have always been very impressed with the coin photography on the Chards website, and wanted to achieve something similar   

Best

Dicker

[Scootermuppet]

2 hours ago, dicker said:

For anyone interested this is the setup - works very well on my high res Mac screen.

Best

Dicker

 

I have Photoshop open on my Mac most days -  being a Freelance web designer / developer has its perks 😁

Good lighting is usually the key to getting good pictures of coins, or any small object really, looks like that has a light source built in? Very clever device...

[dicker]

Yes - it has a built in light source which is adjustable.  I didn’t want to spend loads just have something that was “good enough” and worked with a Mac.  
 

Cheers

Dicker

[Allgoldcoins]

2 hours ago, dicker said:

Yes - it has a built in light source which is adjustable.  I didn’t want to spend loads just have something that was “good enough” and worked with a Mac.  
 

Cheers

Dicker

This photo is not perfect, its a little soft in some areas but its not bad, would you be happy with this sort of quality?

[dicker]

Yes - that is an excellent photo!

[Scootermuppet]

12 hours ago, Allgoldcoins said:

This photo is not perfect, its a little soft in some areas but its not bad, would you be happy with this sort of quality?

Ok @Allgoldcoins, now you have to tell us what you did to get the result 😏👍

[Allgoldcoins]

1 hour ago, Scootermuppet said:

Ok @Allgoldcoins, now you have to tell us what you did to get the result 😏👍

Although we have a couple of high end Canon cameras and lighting etc, we found we could actually get some cracking picture's like this by just using a standard smart phone 'Samsung S7 edge' the right natural day light and cut the coin out in photoshop or even MS paint.

 

[Scootermuppet]

8 hours ago, Allgoldcoins said:

Although we have a couple of high end Canon cameras and lighting etc, we found we could actually get some cracking picture's like this by just using a standard smart phone 'Samsung S7 edge' the right natural day light and cut the coin out in photoshop or even MS paint.

 

Well, they do say “the best camera is the one you have with you when you need to take a photograph” ☺️

just goes to show the advances in camera phone technology, and digital photography in general...👍