New to Gold and worried

[Bigmarc]

I thought details have to be taken, and HMRC could request the information. Customer due diligence is the phrase. Just a money laundering check. 

[PeteUK1960]

On 12/05/2021 at 22:33, sixgun said:

Personally i would look to selling your bars and getting UK gold coins at some point. But not at a loss.
I presume you got these https://www.royalmint.com/invest/bullion/bullion-bars/gold-bars/500-g-gold-bar-cast/

There are a number of reasons for this:

• The CGT is a point - currently UK tax payers don't pay CGT on UK coins. So there may be the issue of CGT in the future. 
• A 500g bar is a heavy duty piece of gold to sell. At spot right now that is £20 770. Let's say you put one up for sale on the forum - there aren't many here who would be potential takers. There would be lots of admiring looks but not many here with the firepower to bag such an item or indeed the inclination to buy such a large bar.
• You are stuck with dealers mainly to sell back to and they are going to give you the bottom book price - they don't want to get stuck with such a bar. This bar might even end up going to melt. 
• If it goes to a dealer then that information will likely be transmitted to HMRC. This isn't to imply you wouldn't have told them if you incurred a CGT liability but who the hell knows if you sold 60 odd gold sovereigns?
• Gold bars are not trusted as much as coins. The bigger the bar the less they are trusted. It is much easier to fake a gold bar than say a gold sovereign.
• When a person needs a bit of cash, with a 500g bar they have to sell the whole thing. If they had 60 sovereigns they could sell 1 sovereign or as many sovereigns up to their 60 sovereigns that they need to.

i am mentioning this b/c it may be something you would want to think about at some point. i am involved in the Kinesis monetary system. i think Kinesis would take such a bar in their Exchange Physical for Digital Gain liquiditiy when you exchange physical gold to digital | Kinesis Money

There would be a cost and i'm not sure how much it would be. You would get the bar(s) switched into KAU tokens in the system. Each KAU = title over 1g of gold. You can send, spend and sell these tokens. The yield system should be starting to pay its first yield on 'minting' soon. There is a holder's yield, so you could hold the gold inside the system and get paid a holder's yield which would be paid in KAU. The vaulting is free. If and when you wanted to spend your gold, a GBP debit card is due to be launched in the next few months. There will be a bank account associated with the Kinesis monetary account. It is something possibly to think about but not just yet. i mention it, so that i have mentioned it and perhaps later this year if you still have your bars it might be something to consider.

Hi there,

I`ve been doing a fair bit of research on Kenisis and I have to say I like Andrew McGuire I find him on the face of it very honest and his knowledge of the mechanics of the precious metal markets is mind blowing. Now, I have this little guy on my other shoulder telling me watch out its just another paper gold outfit that will have 15 people owning the same lump of ore. Andrew McGuire is screaming from the rooftops for paper owners to claim their physical because only the first handful in line are gonna get it which I cant believe he`d do if he wasnt confident he could cover the Kinesis obligation if he had to. What do you say?

On 12/05/2021 at 22:33, sixgun said:

Personally i would look to selling your bars and getting UK gold coins at some point. But not at a loss.
I presume you got these https://www.royalmint.com/invest/bullion/bullion-bars/gold-bars/500-g-gold-bar-cast/

There are a number of reasons for this:

• The CGT is a point - currently UK tax payers don't pay CGT on UK coins. So there may be the issue of CGT in the future. 
• A 500g bar is a heavy duty piece of gold to sell. At spot right now that is £20 770. Let's say you put one up for sale on the forum - there aren't many here who would be potential takers. There would be lots of admiring looks but not many here with the firepower to bag such an item or indeed the inclination to buy such a large bar.
• You are stuck with dealers mainly to sell back to and they are going to give you the bottom book price - they don't want to get stuck with such a bar. This bar might even end up going to melt. 
• If it goes to a dealer then that information will likely be transmitted to HMRC. This isn't to imply you wouldn't have told them if you incurred a CGT liability but who the hell knows if you sold 60 odd gold sovereigns?
• Gold bars are not trusted as much as coins. The bigger the bar the less they are trusted. It is much easier to fake a gold bar than say a gold sovereign.
• When a person needs a bit of cash, with a 500g bar they have to sell the whole thing. If they had 60 sovereigns they could sell 1 sovereign or as many sovereigns up to their 60 sovereigns that they need to.

i am mentioning this b/c it may be something you would want to think about at some point. i am involved in the Kinesis monetary system. i think Kinesis would take such a bar in their Exchange Physical for Digital Gain liquiditiy when you exchange physical gold to digital | Kinesis Money

There would be a cost and i'm not sure how much it would be. You would get the bar(s) switched into KAU tokens in the system. Each KAU = title over 1g of gold. You can send, spend and sell these tokens. The yield system should be starting to pay its first yield on 'minting' soon. There is a holder's yield, so you could hold the gold inside the system and get paid a holder's yield which would be paid in KAU. The vaulting is free. If and when you wanted to spend your gold, a GBP debit card is due to be launched in the next few months. There will be a bank account associated with the Kinesis monetary account. It is something possibly to think about but not just yet. i mention it, so that i have mentioned it and perhaps later this year if you still have your bars it might be something to consider.

Hi there,

I`ve been doing a fair bit of research on Kenisis and I have to say I like Andrew McGuire I find him on the face of it very honest and his knowledge of the mechanics of the precious metal markets is mind blowing. Now, I have this little guy on my other shoulder telling me watch out its just another paper gold outfit that will have 15 people owning the same lump of ore. Andrew McGuire is screaming from the rooftops for paper owners to claim their physical because only the first handful in line are gonna get it which I cant believe he`d do if he wasnt confident he could cover the Kinesis obligation if he had to. What do you say?

[PeteUK1960]

On 12/05/2021 at 22:33, sixgun said:

Personally i would look to selling your bars and getting UK gold coins at some point. But not at a loss.
I presume you got these https://www.royalmint.com/invest/bullion/bullion-bars/gold-bars/500-g-gold-bar-cast/

There are a number of reasons for this:

• The CGT is a point - currently UK tax payers don't pay CGT on UK coins. So there may be the issue of CGT in the future. 
• A 500g bar is a heavy duty piece of gold to sell. At spot right now that is £20 770. Let's say you put one up for sale on the forum - there aren't many here who would be potential takers. There would be lots of admiring looks but not many here with the firepower to bag such an item or indeed the inclination to buy such a large bar.
• You are stuck with dealers mainly to sell back to and they are going to give you the bottom book price - they don't want to get stuck with such a bar. This bar might even end up going to melt. 
• If it goes to a dealer then that information will likely be transmitted to HMRC. This isn't to imply you wouldn't have told them if you incurred a CGT liability but who the hell knows if you sold 60 odd gold sovereigns?
• Gold bars are not trusted as much as coins. The bigger the bar the less they are trusted. It is much easier to fake a gold bar than say a gold sovereign.
• When a person needs a bit of cash, with a 500g bar they have to sell the whole thing. If they had 60 sovereigns they could sell 1 sovereign or as many sovereigns up to their 60 sovereigns that they need to.

i am mentioning this b/c it may be something you would want to think about at some point. i am involved in the Kinesis monetary system. i think Kinesis would take such a bar in their Exchange Physical for Digital Gain liquiditiy when you exchange physical gold to digital | Kinesis Money

There would be a cost and i'm not sure how much it would be. You would get the bar(s) switched into KAU tokens in the system. Each KAU = title over 1g of gold. You can send, spend and sell these tokens. The yield system should be starting to pay its first yield on 'minting' soon. There is a holder's yield, so you could hold the gold inside the system and get paid a holder's yield which would be paid in KAU. The vaulting is free. If and when you wanted to spend your gold, a GBP debit card is due to be launched in the next few months. There will be a bank account associated with the Kinesis monetary account. It is something possibly to think about but not just yet. i mention it, so that i have mentioned it and perhaps later this year if you still have your bars it might be something to consider.

Hi there,

I`ve been doing a fair bit of research on Kenisis and I have to say I like Andrew McGuire I find him on the face of it very honest and his knowledge of the mechanics of the precious metal markets is mind blowing. Now, I have this little guy on my other shoulder telling me watch out its just another paper gold outfit that will have 15 people owning the same lump of ore. Andrew McGuire is screaming from the rooftops for paper owners to claim their physical because only the first handful in line are gonna get it which I cant believe he`d do if he wasnt confident he could cover the Kinesis obligation if he had to. What do you say?

[sixgun]

43 minutes ago, PeteUK1960 said:

Hi there,

I`ve been doing a fair bit of research on Kenisis and I have to say I like Andrew McGuire I find him on the face of it very honest and his knowledge of the mechanics of the precious metal markets is mind blowing. Now, I have this little guy on my other shoulder telling me watch out its just another paper gold outfit that will have 15 people owning the same lump of ore. Andrew McGuire is screaming from the rooftops for paper owners to claim their physical because only the first handful in line are gonna get it which I cant believe he`d do if he wasnt confident he could cover the Kinesis obligation if he had to. What do you say?

Kinesis is based on the Allocated Bullion Exchange https://abx.com/ with vaults in 7 locations around the world. 
The metal is audited. The last one was gone over on the (Kinesis) Ambassadors' thread in Telegram and it matched to the ounce - it think there was a fraction too much silver in fact.
The system is still developing. i expect the on boarding of fiat will get quicker and easier. i expect some of the transaction fees will drop. Another member investigated buying a couple of KVT's from Jim Forsythe who is selling discounted KVT's to spread them amongst a wider base. Jim wanted paying in KAU's (gold) and this member felt that transactions costs were too high - he was told it would cost him $25 to do the 3 transactions for 2 KVT's. i presume he didn't follow through. This isn't free banking and never will be. However as far as the metal being there i am as sure as i can be it is.

[modofantasma]

On 12/05/2021 at 17:41, PeteUK1960 said:

Hi all, this is my first post glad to be here with you all,

OK, so I`m 61 and retired, I was hearing lots of scary stuff about the collapse of currency banks etc and decided to do something for myself. Without getting any advice I went to the royal mint and spent half of my savings on 1.5 Kg of gold in 500g bars. At the time I paid 68000 pounds and its now around 63000 spot price.

I`m told the because its bullion any profit will be subject to CGT and that I should have bought coins. I`m probably here too late but would welcome any advice.

 

Cheers Pete

 

I wouldn't see the benefit in selling at a loss to buy more gold. Sure if you needed the money quickly you might have to take a hit. 

Could there be a possibility of trading? Eg could you swap 1 of the bars with someone for xx number of sovereigns or 1 oz coins.  It might suit someone whose stack has grown beyond their expectations and wants to consolidate some of it instead of having loads of different pieces. 

If you don't need the money at the moment though why not just wait until you're back in the green then sell at break even or a gain and buy in your chosen pieces? 

[PeteUK1960]

On 20/05/2021 at 09:40, modofantasma said:

I wouldn't see the benefit in selling at a loss to buy more gold. Sure if you needed the money quickly you might have to take a hit. 

Could there be a possibility of trading? Eg could you swap 1 of the bars with someone for xx number of sovereigns or 1 oz coins.  It might suit someone whose stack has grown beyond their expectations and wants to consolidate some of it instead of having loads of different pieces. 

If you don't need the money at the moment though why not just wait until you're back in the green then sell at break even or a gain and buy in your chosen pieces? 

Yea that sounds like sound advice, I was hoping maybe I could deposit it into my Kenisis account but unfortunately once you have taken posession of your physical the chain of possession is broken and they will no longer take it, seems weird but thats what they told me over the phone. My fear for the imminent fate of Fiat and the inevitability of hyper inflation is freaking me out and being such a newbie I`m worried about doing the wrong thing. I`m contemplating waiting till my gold (and recent 10kg of silver) go into slight profit and selling then transferring everything into Kinesis. What do you think?

[modofantasma]

41 minutes ago, PeteUK1960 said:

Yea that sounds like sound advice, I was hoping maybe I could deposit it into my Kenisis account but unfortunately once you have taken posession of your physical the chain of possession is broken and they will no longer take it, seems weird but thats what they told me over the phone. My fear for the imminent fate of Fiat and the inevitability of hyper inflation is freaking me out and being such a newbie I`m worried about doing the wrong thing. I`m contemplating waiting till my gold (and recent 10kg of silver) go into slight profit and selling then transferring everything into Kinesis. What do you think?

I don't have any experience of Kinesis unfortunately. If you sell at a small profit then you haven't lost out in £ terms at least. 

[Stacktastic]

On 12/05/2021 at 17:41, PeteUK1960 said:

1.5 Kg of gold in 500g bars. At the time I paid 68000 pounds and its now around 63000 spot price.

Ohh i would love a few KG in gold bars, must make you feel like a gangster!
Bet you wish you had put it on Etherium - now that would be a return!! 

I assume this has been said, but I would not so much worry about the fiat price too much. 
I think its safe to say that the fundamentals look very good for gold in the next decade or more. 
Gold is your hard asset & the fiat value is not massively worth worrying about as its not going to £0
The lowest it might go might be £900 or so but I doubt it,
especially when Bitcoin crashes, bonds yields go down, inflation really hits .... 

I assume your not selling it or dont need to sell it,
but surely you can get other people to use thier allowance?
I dont know anything about capital gains, but if you sell it privately who will know? 
Thats most certainly not financial advice btw.

1 hour ago, PeteUK1960 said:

go into slight profit and selling then transferring everything into Kinesis. What do you think?

I would be tempted to wait for a decent price, especially if its on a run (ie not to time a top)
& try and swap the bullion for coins (like the £14k Queens Beast up for sale atm).

I had quite a bit of money in quite a lot of stocks this year and have done this. 
I sold BP and Shell for example as they hit green. Had I waited I would have almost doubled my money. 
I dont know for sure, but I think we will see all time high gold at some point, maybe this year, maybe next, depending what happens. 

Basically I dont think you have made any mistakes, its just consolidating
& you have bought it for inflation, so the value of it in paper fiat now is irrelevant for a longer term hold. 
I would certainly consider spreading your risk a bit more Property, crypto & stocks
should see some very nice discounts at some point as they are all in bubbles. 

Im mostly in cash btw. (I dont have a lot to play with though like you  ) 
Now patiently waiting for any of the above to get to a price I am happy with. The everything bubble wont last forever. 
consistently buying gold and silver too when the price is a bit lower (silver under £20, Gold under £1350 & platinum under £700). 

Edited May 23, 2021 by Stacktastic

[modofantasma]

3 minutes ago, Stacktastic said:

I dont know anything about capital gains, but if you sell it privately who will know? 
Thats most certainly not financial advice btw.

 

Quick cuff him 😂🔗🔗

[Stacktastic]

52 minutes ago, modofantasma said:

Quick cuff him 😂🔗🔗

The greedy robbing w****s get more than enough from me in income tax, fuel tax, stamp duty, alcohol .... 
I even get taxed when I die WTF when and how was this considered normal behaviour by our 'leaders'?
 

Edited May 23, 2021 by Stacktastic

[Pete]

I sympathise with you investing a substantial part of your savings in 3 gold bars at a time gold was sliding from its previous peaks.
If you bought at £45 per gram in early January 2021 after seeing August 2020 spot at £50 per gram you probably believed that gold would bounce back up and especially with global COVID and all the " experts" predicting the end of the world and that's not even mentioning Brexit !
Okay you made your decision and spot is down on what you paid but remain calm and don't panic.
You will only loose if you sell now so unless you need to liquidate a bar just sit tight.
Nobody knows whether gold will fall or rise but if you are uncomfortable holding so much gold and fearing further drops then maybe sell a bar and wait with your cash to buy back but not a 500g bar, maybe Krugerrands as often the cheapest gold coins but still fine gold.

A couple of points to consider though -

I am guessing that you paid about 4.25% over spot when purchasing your bars from the RM
That seems expensive because you are gaining nothing by having a tradeable "quantum" valued at £22,000
With such a premium you could have purchased 16 x 1 oz coins ( whilst also eliminating the risk of CGT ) per bar.
Selling a few ounces from time to time would not commit you to liquidating one third of your portfolio in one go.

Since selling your gold will be extremely easy and almost instant, literally over the phone, or under an hour in a train to Hatton Garden London or the Jewellery Quarter Birmingham, see if any of the big dealers would swap smaller bars and coins for your 500g bars. You don't want to sell without replacing your gold so a sort of exchange. Some will do deals especially with 1.5kg to trade.

You cannot post a 500g bar using Special Delivery as it has a limit of £2,500 in compensation so you might end up having to hand carry a bar to a dealer.

Lot's of nice people on this site and plenty of tips so welcome !
 

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by Pete

[HawkHybrid]

1 hour ago, PeteUK1960 said:

Yea that sounds like sound advice, I was hoping maybe I could deposit it into my Kenisis account but unfortunately once you have taken posession of your physical the chain of possession is broken and they will no longer take it, seems weird but thats what they told me over the phone. My fear for the imminent fate of Fiat and the inevitability of hyper inflation is freaking me out and being such a newbie I`m worried about doing the wrong thing. I`m contemplating waiting till my gold (and recent 10kg of silver) go into slight profit and selling then transferring everything into Kinesis. What do you think?

 

if you are holding gold to protect yourself from hyperinflation then why are you

even considering anything that is not bullion gold sovereigns?

 

HH

Edited May 23, 2021 by HawkHybrid

[PeteUK1960]

Yes totally agreed, I cocked up by buying the bars as I can only spend them by exchanging them for fiat, I`m not hiding the fact I`m an idiot I`m just trying to figure out the next move.

[PeteUK1960]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

I sympathise with you investing a substantial part of your savings in 3 gold bars at a time gold was sliding from its previous peaks.
If you bought at £45 per gram in early January 2021 after seeing August 2020 spot at £50 per gram you probably believed that gold would bounce back up and especially with global COVID and all the " experts" predicting the end of the world and that's not even mentioning Brexit !
Okay you made your decision and spot is down on what you paid but remain calm and don't panic.
You will only loose if you sell now so unless you need to liquidate a bar just sit tight.
Nobody knows whether gold will fall or rise but if you are uncomfortable holding so much gold and fearing further drops then maybe sell a bar and wait with your cash to buy back but not a 500g bar, maybe Krugerrands as often the cheapest gold coins but still fine gold.

A couple of points to consider though -

I am guessing that you paid about 4.25% over spot when purchasing your bars from the RM
That seems expensive because you are gaining nothing by having a tradeable "quantum" valued at £22,000
With such a premium you could have purchased 16 x 1 oz coins ( whilst also eliminating the risk of CGT ) per bar.
Selling a few ounces from time to time would not commit you to liquidating one third of your portfolio in one go.

Since selling your gold will be extremely easy and almost instant, literally over the phone, or under an hour in a train to Hatton Garden London or the Jewellery Quarter Birmingham, see if any of the big dealers would swap smaller bars and coins for your 500g bars. You don't want to sell without replacing your gold so a sort of exchange. Some will do deals especially with 1.5kg to trade.

You cannot post a 500g bar using Special Delivery as it has a limit of £2,500 in compensation so you might end up having to hand carry a bar to a dealer.

Lot's of nice people on this site and plenty of tips so welcome !
 

 

Great advice very much appreciated, Andrew Maguire predicts a 1480 spot at the back end of this year after Basel 3, if we are lucky and that comes off I`ll trade for coins and should at least break even, as for the silver, it has utility as well as monetary value and at some point there will be a squeeze so I plan to sit on that for longer but ultimately exchange it for coins.

[HawkHybrid]

16 minutes ago, PeteUK1960 said:

I`m not hiding the fact I`m an idiot

I didn't say that.

you know that you should be holding the vast majority in gold sovereigns.

why is your next move to not fix your earlier mistake and make a plan to convert

the majority to gold sovereigns. how does transferring everything to kinesis enable you to

hold gold sovereigns?

the bars were only a mistake, we all make mistakes.

if you sell the bars and use the proceeds to buy sovereigns you should be fine.

this would incur a cost both when you sell and when you buy.

to reduce this cost you can try and time the markets.

you don't need to time it perfectly just a few % will reduce your cost to transfer.

to set up a plan to do this you should know a few things.

1. the gold price does not move up in a straight line.

2. you have time on your hands to wait for the gold price to drop after you sell.

3. the gold price has cycles.

4. you don't need to turn a profit, the aim is to reduce the cost to transfer from bars

to sovereigns.

 

I recommend you wait for gold to spike up in the next cycle(1+% rise in a day) then immediately

sell one of your bars. wait for gold to fall a few % from the price you sold at(this could take time),

then buy sovereigns in batches of £5k until you've transferred all the proceeds from that single

bar. wait for the next cycle and repeat with the other bars until complete.

 

you have time to plan out your next move.

 

HH

[Stacktastic]

11 hours ago, HawkHybrid said:

if you sell the bars and use the proceeds to buy sovereigns you should be fine.

Or swap them like for like.
I bet you could find someone on here who has a lot of gold coins & would prefer some nice chunky bars. 
Probably a dealer though. 

I might be wrong but surely capital gains is not applicable in a swap. 
You might have to pay for an armed guard though as it would have to be an in person thing

I assume you have access to it and its not held in a vault. 
On that note I would be very careful going forward not to disclose any personal information. 
Pretty obvious I know. 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Stacktastic

[PeteUK1960]

11 hours ago, HawkHybrid said:

I didn't say that.

you know that you should be holding the vast majority in gold sovereigns.

why is your next move to not fix your earlier mistake and make a plan to convert

the majority to gold sovereigns. how does transferring everything to kinesis enable you to

hold gold sovereigns?

the bars were only a mistake, we all make mistakes.

if you sell the bars and use the proceeds to buy sovereigns you should be fine.

this would incur a cost both when you sell and when you buy.

to reduce this cost you can try and time the markets.

you don't need to time it perfectly just a few % will reduce your cost to transfer.

to set up a plan to do this you should know a few things.

1. the gold price does not move up in a straight line.

2. you have time on your hands to wait for the gold price to drop after you sell.

3. the gold price has cycles.

4. you don't need to turn a profit, the aim is to reduce the cost to transfer from bars

to sovereigns.

 

I recommend you wait for gold to spike up in the next cycle(1+% rise in a day) then immediately

sell one of your bars. wait for gold to fall a few % from the price you sold at(this could take time),

then buy sovereigns in batches of £5k until you've transferred all the proceeds from that single

bar. wait for the next cycle and repeat with the other bars until complete.

 

you have time to plan out your next move.

 

HH

I`ve clearly got to resist this urge I have to move too quickly and I intend to follow your advice to the letter. 

To try and put a degree of sense to my intention of transferring everything to kinesis, they tell you that you can withdraw your physical at any point you choose to the value of the KAU you own at that time so as I saw it you can grow your stack within their system but with the ability to access your capital via their visa debit card in an emergency. In the event that I withdrew in physical would I not have the opportunity to take it in coins?

[PeteUK1960]

6 minutes ago, Stacktastic said:

Or swap them like for like.
I bet you could find someone on here who has a lot of gold coins & would prefer some nice chunky bars. 
Probably a dealer though. 

I might be wrong but surely capital gains is not applicable in a swap. 
You might have to pay for an armed guard though as it would have to be an in person thing

I assume you have access to it and its not held in a vault. 
On that note I would be very careful going forward not to disclose any personal information. 
Pretty obvious I know. 

Thank you, currently it is in a safety deposit box in a local bank and I can access it 7 days a week. In line with what HawkHybrid said I will sell it at the right point and commit the proceeds to buying sovereigns, however, if theres a significant rise in spot I could consider a straight swap.

[Stacktastic]

2 hours ago, PeteUK1960 said:

Thank you, currently it is in a safety deposit box in a local bank and I can access it 7 days a week. In line with what HawkHybrid said I will sell it at the right point and commit the proceeds to buying sovereigns, however, if theres a significant rise in spot I could consider a straight swap.

I dont think you will get the same money back with fractional Britannias as the % extra over spot is more being single items,
but technically you could get like for like as you can cost this in when selling them. 
I dont know how much bullion that would buy, but you can at least split it into 3. 

This is a good plan as you can sit on them and sell a few when/if the spot goes up. 
Plus you can store some of it at home.

I would consider some more collectible coins like the Queens best completer if your holding for long term. 
I bought a few sets of the silver ones last year and they are quite a bit more now as they appreciate in value over the spot price. 
Might be better to just buy stuff on here when you see a deal and swap for the bullion?
I think a lot of people will be selling later this year if the free money supply dries up or things (look like) they are getting back to normal. 

As I have said I would wait for a reasonable peak (like in Aug last year). 
That way you can make the money back probably with a half decent profit to invest into other assets.
Or buy inflation sensitive goods like a load of meat & a chest freezer LOL. 

As he has been active on here recently (& sorry to keep quoting you),
but @LawrenceChard might be able to help or suggest someone? 
His vault must make this chap look like an amateur. 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Stacktastic

[Pete]

You will see how helpful fellow forum members are in trying to both share their own direct experience and offer some advice.
The problem ( not a bad one to have ! ) is that you have 3 x 500g bars worth about £22k each.
It is a store of wealth for sure and easily kept in a (Metro perhaps ? ) safe-deposit box.
I would guess it will be impossible to sell privately and and who is going to trust whom ?
Your only option would be to sell to a bullion dealer and they might need some time to verify the bar and that it isn't just a gold plated bar of tungsten.

Initially I was going to suggest you wait until gold increases in price so that you could sell at breakeven but if you are intent on holding gold for the longer term then the price really doesn't matter. You are selling and buying the same weight so whatever the price on the day is wholly irrelevant.

The problem you may come across is twofold - supply and premium.
Buying sovereigns is a good strategy but only if you can buy at a fair premium and not overpay if supplies are limited.
If you can exchange into gold coins and sovereigns aren't available in sufficient quantity or reasonable price then buy any gold coins that are only a few percent over spot but are preferably 24 carat like Maples, newer Britannias, Krugerrand etc. You are not a coin collector so it doesn't matter and you can always sell back and buy sovereigns at a later date.
Failing that you could buy best value gold bars 50g or thereabouts. It is all about staying in the game and not the variations in price.

Timing the market is a mugs game in your situation.
Buyers of gold will wait hoping for a decent dip whilst sellers of gold are praying for rises.
You shouldn't really care as you are remaining invested in gold.
Waiting on gold to rise to sell only means you are going to pay more for your coins and smaller bars.
If you sell and wait, the price of gold can continue to rise so you will have missed the growth potential.
It is impossible to predict peaks and dips but very rarely someone might strike lucky.
If gold falls then many people will not sell so the availability of coins etc diminishes.
If gold rises then some will sell to take profit but your buy price rises and if there is more demand then the dealers increase their premiums.

In conclusion if I was in your shoes what would I do ?
I would consider selling 1 bar to swap into smaller bars and coins, sovereigns - if there are sufficient.
Give a call to HGM, Atkinsons, BullionbyPost, Chards and ask if they could supply 500g of fine gold in coins and small bars and see if they could trade on a 3% or less premium over spot. If one of them has sufficient inventory then ask if they would buy your 500g bar for as near to spot as possible - maybe 98% ?? If yes then it might be possible to strike a deal and fix everything whilst physical exchanges takes a day or so but the deal is locked solid. It doesn't matter if gold tanks or rises to the moon the following day because you remain with 500g of gold. If the dealer can supply 1kg or 1.5kg at the time then go "all in" and get rid of your bars. At the end of the day you will see that there have been losses in paying a premium to the RM day 1 then a second premium buying coins etc and a small premium selling your bars. Added up this might amount to 10% but in a year gold could swing 30% so if you aren't willing to absorb the losses, hold your bars in your vault until hopefully you can sell at a profit but if you buy back into gold then you will still have incurred the same percentage losses. 

Please note this is nothing more than friendly banter, or simply "food for thought", as to what I would do, but please don't take this as financial advice as I am not qualified to make recommendations of any sorts.
 

 

 

[PeteUK1960]

52 minutes ago, Pete said:

You will see how helpful fellow forum members are in trying to both share their own direct experience and offer some advice.
The problem ( not a bad one to have ! ) is that you have 3 x 500g bars worth about £22k each.
It is a store of wealth for sure and easily kept in a (Metro perhaps ? ) safe-deposit box.
I would guess it will be impossible to sell privately and and who is going to trust whom ?
Your only option would be to sell to a bullion dealer and they might need some time to verify the bar and that it isn't just a gold plated bar of tungsten.

Initially I was going to suggest you wait until gold increases in price so that you could sell at breakeven but if you are intent on holding gold for the longer term then the price really doesn't matter. You are selling and buying the same weight so whatever the price on the day is wholly irrelevant.

The problem you may come across is twofold - supply and premium.
Buying sovereigns is a good strategy but only if you can buy at a fair premium and not overpay if supplies are limited.
If you can exchange into gold coins and sovereigns aren't available in sufficient quantity or reasonable price then buy any gold coins that are only a few percent over spot but are preferably 24 carat like Maples, newer Britannias, Krugerrand etc. You are not a coin collector so it doesn't matter and you can always sell back and buy sovereigns at a later date.
Failing that you could buy best value gold bars 50g or thereabouts. It is all about staying in the game and not the variations in price.

Timing the market is a mugs game in your situation.
Buyers of gold will wait hoping for a decent dip whilst sellers of gold are praying for rises.
You shouldn't really care as you are remaining invested in gold.
Waiting on gold to rise to sell only means you are going to pay more for your coins and smaller bars.
If you sell and wait, the price of gold can continue to rise so you will have missed the growth potential.
It is impossible to predict peaks and dips but very rarely someone might strike lucky.
If gold falls then many people will not sell so the availability of coins etc diminishes.
If gold rises then some will sell to take profit but your buy price rises and if there is more demand then the dealers increase their premiums.

In conclusion if I was in your shoes what would I do ?
I would consider selling 1 bar to swap into smaller bars and coins, sovereigns - if there are sufficient.
Give a call to HGM, Atkinsons, BullionbyPost, Chards and ask if they could supply 500g of fine gold in coins and small bars and see if they could trade on a 3% or less premium over spot. If one of them has sufficient inventory then ask if they would buy your 500g bar for as near to spot as possible - maybe 98% ?? If yes then it might be possible to strike a deal and fix everything whilst physical exchanges takes a day or so but the deal is locked solid. It doesn't matter if gold tanks or rises to the moon the following day because you remain with 500g of gold. If the dealer can supply 1kg or 1.5kg at the time then go "all in" and get rid of your bars. At the end of the day you will see that there have been losses in paying a premium to the RM day 1 then a second premium buying coins etc and a small premium selling your bars. Added up this might amount to 10% but in a year gold could swing 30% so if you aren't willing to absorb the losses, hold your bars in your vault until hopefully you can sell at a profit but if you buy back into gold then you will still have incurred the same percentage losses. 

Please note this is nothing more than friendly banter, or simply "food for thought", as to what I would do, but please don't take this as financial advice as I am not qualified to make recommendations of any sorts.
 

 

 

I cant believe how great the folks here are and its honestly a great comfort. You make perfect sense and I fully intend to keep my gold and silver for the long haul. As you have probably gathered I rushed into purchasing without getting correct advice for my needs but I`ve had great solutions suggested. I`m acutely conscious that I have a first world problem to solve and it could be a lot worse, I`m also aware that I`m maybe not in the right place because my focus is fiscal where you guys are dedicated to element 79. However, I`m learning an awful lot.

Cheers Pete 

[Pete]

You might want to check out the boxes of sovereigns here - https://atkinsonsbullion.com/special-offers?utm_source=Atkinsons+Bullion+%26+Coins+-+GDPR&utm_campaign=6efe5ffd63-Special+Offers!Save+a+Bundle+on+Gold+%26+Silver_COPY&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_3cac732c79-6efe5ffd63-106640401

 

[PeteUK1960]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

You might want to check out the boxes of sovereigns here - https://atkinsonsbullion.com/special-offers?utm_source=Atkinsons+Bullion+%26+Coins+-+GDPR&utm_campaign=6efe5ffd63-Special+Offers!Save+a+Bundle+on+Gold+%26+Silver_COPY&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_3cac732c79-6efe5ffd63-106640401

 

I`ve messaged them thanks.

[LawrenceChard]

8 hours ago, Stacktastic said:

As he has been active on here recently (& sorry to keep quoting you),
but @LawrenceChard might be able to help or suggest someone? 
His vault must make this chap look like an amateur. 

It's a pity that @PeteUK1960 didn't check in at TSF before buying from the Royal Mint.

Lots of people probably do, because they get lots of free publicity from the mainstream media, but they are usually the most expensive seller of gold bullion in the UK.

I just took a look at their half kilo bars page. They don't make it easy and tell you thier premiums (we do). Currently they charge about 4% premium on 2 or more.

We happen to charge 3.3%% for similar new bars, but we would not recommend them for investment. Previously owned would cost about half the premium, and our normal advice is buy coins rather than bars.

In fact my usual advice is to buy at the lowest premium within reason.

We have a number of FAQ and advice pages, starting here:

https://www.chards.co.uk/info/investing-in-gold

As someone has already said, the mistake is in the past.

My suggestion is to see if a dealer will exchange them for coins, and if so, at what rate?

You could try asking the RM how much they would buy them back for. I would certainly be interested, and so would many here on TSF.

Quick note: the RM charge 1% plus VAT per annum for storage, at @ChardsCoinandBullionDealer, we charge half of that, plus an initial admin charge for goods not bought from us.

It could be worth speaking to one of our Customer Service team to discuss it. We would not want to pay more than spot for the bars, at most, but an exchange might work out for you.

Another thought, but too late to help you: If you had spent the same amount on one ounce gold bars, they would have been easier to resell, and you could have bought them for about the same premium.

I advise you don't rush into your next move in a great rush. Take your time, try to weigh up the varying advice before you decide.

I don't know if any of the above helps.

[HawkHybrid]

14 hours ago, PeteUK1960 said:

To try and put a degree of sense to my intention of transferring everything to kinesis, they tell you that you can withdraw your physical at any point you choose to the value of the KAU you own at that time so as I saw it you can grow your stack within their system but with the ability to access your capital via their visa debit card in an emergency. In the event that I withdrew in physical would I not have the opportunity to take it in coins?

the simple answer is how many forum members do you think would put the lions share of their safety net

funds into kinesis? then look at how many seek a safety net with sovereigns. there are a lot of practical

reasons why sovereigns win out versus many other options not just kinesis, and usually sovereigns win

by a large margin.

 

14 hours ago, Stacktastic said:

Or swap them like for like.
I bet you could find someone on here who has a lot of gold coins & would prefer some nice chunky bars. 
Probably a dealer though. 

my guess is not without a noticeable percentage hit.(how many forum members have 500g worth of

cgt free gold to swap out?). I don't think the odds are that great and dealers need to make a profit.

 

9 hours ago, Pete said:

Added up this might amount to 10%

this is why I recommend that the op tries to time a spike up before selling. a 1+% spike up in a day should

hopefully be followed by a fill the gap move. if you time it to coincide with a larger cycle 'already over

bought' you can wait for a return to base of maybe 2%. it won't turn a profit for traders but you can stand

to reduce costs of buying and selling by ~3%. each cost reduction of 1% is £200 for each bar or a total

cost saving of maybe £1800 if it happens as planned. if op is unlucky/lucky enough for gold to make

significant rises after he has sold a bar then he'll be holding 1kg worth of gold plus about £22k worth

of waiting currency. which is not too bad a situation, all things considered(his 1kg of gold would probably

be no longer in the £red by then). what I'm saying is the risks should be minimal if he gets unlucky. he is

likely to have some costs swapping the bars for sovereigns but he can try a small risk way of reducing

those costs. it will take him some time and some planning but imo the cost saving of maybe £1800 is

worth the effort should he be able to pull it off. note op must sell his bars one at a time for the risk to stay

low.

I'm guessing selling bar cost of 2% and buying sovereigns cost of <5%(if you are buying in batches of

£5k each time, you can haggle for better prices as a repeat customer) so 7% in total. if he can save 3% on

favourable timing of the gold price then that gets reduced to 4%. (which is still £2400 in costs but is

better than the £4200 he would have paid).

(also learning about gold and it's price cycle should be useful for the future)

this is the best I can come up with right now.

 

HH