Are the modern sovereigns lacking in detail?

[Richym99]

Photographing some coins this morning, I got to the modern post 2019 sovereigns. They are so lacking in depth and character compared with the older coins, they are pretty uninspiring. Both of these were photographed using the same technique and lighting. What is going to be left of the new coins in twenty to thirty years, if there is so little highlight in them straight off the mint?

 

[Bruce06]

32 minutes ago, Richym99 said:

Photographing some coins this morning, I got to the modern post 2019 sovereigns. They are so lacking in depth and character compared with the older coins, they are pretty uninspiring. Both of these were photographed using the same technique and lighting. What is going to be left of the new coins in twenty to thirty years, if there is so little highlight in them straight off the mint?

 

totally agree

[RustyShackleford]

This is biggest reason I was disappointed with my 2021 purchase recently.  Very little depth for the St George, the Queen's portrait was better I thought. 

[Scaffstacker]

55 minutes ago, Richym99 said:

Photographing some coins this morning, I got to the modern post 2019 sovereigns. They are so lacking in depth and character compared with the older coins, they are pretty uninspiring. Both of these were photographed using the same technique and lighting. What is going to be left of the new coins in twenty to thirty years, if there is so little highlight in them straight off the mint?

 

I couldn’t agree more, and the almost rose gold colour is off putting also, old all the way for me!
end of the day golds gold and the weight is the same  

[Britannia47]

My favourite subject!  If you want detail, you need to buy a proof version or matt finish sovereign. For many years the RM  has been treating collectors as children, thinking that making sovereigns look like shiny chocolate buttons would make them more attractive. Of course there is no comparison with past coins; the alloy has changed and is wholly red gold (all copper) for one thing. I specially noticed the difference on the Paul Day 2012 bullion sovereign where there is so much reflection that it is difficult to see much detail at all.   Also remember the Sovereign is now the only British gold coin made from 22ct gold. Brits and Beasts have gone 999 gold. Perhaps its time for the sovereigns to switch to 999 gold - maybe call it the 'New Sovereign!'  Anyway I completely agree with you. Its a great topic to get me going....

[Richym99]

3 minutes ago, Scaffstacker said:

I couldn’t agree more, and the almost rose gold colour is off putting also, old all the way for me!
end of the day golds gold and the weight is the same  

Agree gold is gold, but when it comes to grading of older coins, wear is everything. If the 1915 had as little detail in the portrait as the 2021 does, you would be calling it scrap.

So what's the 2021 going to be graded as in 20-30 years time if there is so little detail to start with. 

[Richym99]

3 minutes ago, Britannia47 said:

If you want detail, you need to buy a proof version or matt finish sovereign.

At some point in the future when I sell it, I want to see an increase in it's value above scrap price, which is never guaranteed with proof versions. 😀 (Especially with Royal Mint pricing).

[SidS]

I think the modern ones are just too shiny, the reflectiveness loses a lot of the detail. The field and the detailed areas are all highly polished (the dies that is, not the coins).

But then again, I don't like proofs full stop, so maybe I'm jaded there. I dunno, it just makes coins look either fake or like they were made yesterday.

I was looking at some Maundy sets the other day (yes I realise they are proofs), the 1950s ones had a nice real looking appearance, the 1980s ones looked like shiny buttons, like the wrappers on chocolate coins - overly bright.

The other issue you have with modern coins is that because of high mintage figures and constant efforts to increase die life spans, the relief of the portraits have been lowered and lowered decade by decade, so most modern coins look like cliparts rather than miniature sculptures.

The details are no longer obtained by varying the levels of relief over the design, but by simply adding more lines! Just look at the awful Canadian current QE2 obverse portraits, or for our US readers compare the 1960s Jefferson nickels with those of the 1990s with spaghetti hair!

Say what you like about the Pistrucci George III/IV designs but his background as a gem engraver comes across really well, the level of detailing is so impressive, even if the monarchs' images are very unflattering!

[Norskgeld]

Good call. Give me an old Vicky sov anyday.

[SidS]

5 minutes ago, Norskgeld said:

Good call. Give me an old Vicky sov anyday.

The detailing on the Vicky sovereigns (or other Vicky coins) are a perfect example, compare the 1840s young head designs with the poorer quality (and lower relief) 1880s young head designs.

Edited to add: the early young head coins from 1838-1850s are just gorgeous in higher grades.

The Bun Head, Jubilees and Veiled head coins are well executed designs.

The Gothic is the best though in my opinion.

[kimchi]

I'm going to go against the grain but it doesn't bother me really...but then I am a modern proof Sov man rather than a numismatic historic one (sacrilege I know!). Forgive me, we are all different!

As non-circulating, modern Sovs are just for stacking for me, which I fully understand will annoy the purists. I love my proofs (agreed be careful which ones you invest in). However I really do like the PAMP made Indian Sovs for their far superior golden colour, even if the details aren't much different.

[Britannia47]

On 13/04/2021 at 17:40, kimchi said:

I'm going to go against the grain but it doesn't bother me really...but then I am a modern proof Sov man rather than a numismatic historic one (sacrilege I know!). Forgive me, we are all different!

As non-circulating, modern Sovs are just for stacking for me, which I fully understand will annoy the purists. I love my proofs (agreed be careful which ones you invest in). However I really do like the PAMP made Indian Sovs for their far superior golden colour, even if the details aren't much different.

'Superior golden colour'?  Here's the original 1918 sovereign minted in Bombay v 2018 minted by PAMP in Delhi. - One made from red gold, the other from yellow gold.  I know which one I prefer. 😃

[kimchi]

8 minutes ago, Britannia47 said:

Superior golden colour'?  Here's the original 1918 sovereign minted in Bombay v 2018 minted by PAMP in Delhi. - One made from red gold, the other from yellow gold.  I know which one I prefer. 😃

Superior to modern British Sovs.

[Allgoldcoins]

There is no doubt that modern striking is simply not as good as it once was, here are some examples of old vs new:

First the new 2021 Proof Sovereign :

1937 Proof 

[SidS]

As you can see above, St. George certainly has reduced in relief considerably, give it a few more years, if they carry on like this, it'll be incuse!

[trozau]

Lower relief dies on sovereigns started in 2016 with the Jody Clark QE2 effigy.