Blehhhh talks about bullion dealer's prices

[dicker]

Hi All

I have been a customer of @LawrenceChardpreviously and was highly impressed.  
 

I was *more* impressed when I recommended an elderly relative to use Chards, and their were protections in place to ensure that my elderly relative (very elderly) was not being manipulated to spend their money under duress. 
 

Many forum members will buy on price alone , but this is not the only consideration for everyone.  

BTW I have no association with Chards other than being a customer now and again.

Best

Dicker

[LawrenceChard]

22 hours ago, Blehhhh said:

Sorry I may be coming across badly.

I do think chards are very well priced relative to everyone else.

Initial post I was just pointing out that Baird's seem to be cheaper across the board, even compared to chards. (When same or similar product is offered).

Was just trying to get chards to give us nicer prices😂

We will be quite happy to give you a nicer price.

Just add on 10% (or whatever), and we will think it is a much nicer price!

[sovereignsteve]

2 hours ago, Blehhhh said:

As a consumer of course its your business.

Lets agree to disagree.

 

Ok fair enough, let's.😀

As  consumer, I regard Chards prices as my business only in so far as I realise they could, if I choose, provide me with a service, but that they have staff costs, overheads etc and need to make a profit to keep the director in ski holidays🤭

I am at liberty to take them or leave them. That is it. To keep harping on about them is pointless.

[Bimetallic]

19 hours ago, Paul said:

 

Not quite mate. This is silver, and silver is silver (of the same brand, weight, general disposition, etc. etc.)

[Bimetallic]

21 hours ago, Kman said:

I don't think think anyone would enjoy being on the forum if they're being hen pecked about their businesses pricing

This is all directly quoted from the first page

 "you guys have to catch up with Bairds who are around 25- 27 percent. Come on Lawrence, sort it out for us" 

"Bairds are consistently beating you on everything."

"But you need to match Bairds, no excuses"

"...Its the prices that matter and Bairds are beating Chards on just about everything. As a noob I thought you guys would try to at least match."

I know I'm plucking them out from around maybe softer words and a "😛" or two but it's still rude, no way around it

I have a bit of a different take.

First, it's fascinating and fun to watch Brits (and the Irish!) argue. All these strange expressions, like "hen pecked", "crack on", getting "unfair stick", etc. This is all a treat to an American. It's like visiting Britain for free.

I've known of his existence for all of ten minutes, but I do like Mr. Chard. What a gentleman and a scholar. What's the yardstick for being knighted in Britain? Has Mr. Chard met the criteria yet? I assume he founded the company and nurtured it to its present proportions? Do entrepreneurs get knighted in Britain? I thought I had heard about Dyson getting it, but I might be confusing him for someone else. I mean the vacuum genius. If he can get knighted, I hope Mr. Chard can as well.

And, perhaps surprisingly, I think Mr. Blehhhh's conduct is fine. A lot of stackers seem to overpay for their silver, and it bothers me. It's partly why I put together my snapshot spreadsheet a while ago. Some of you seem to be offended by someone coming into a silver forum and asking a silver dealer why his prices for silver appear to be inflated compared to another silver dealer in the same jurisdiction. To me, this is manly business, and men should be men, at all times. In America we say "don't get your panties in a twist". I'm not sure how to put it in the Queen's.

Maybe he complained a bit excessively if we tabulate all the posts, but the general thrust seems legitimate. One should never overpay for silver, and if two dealers of comparable ethics, reputation, and manly virtue differ in price, go with the lower price. Don't be a sucker. Or as they say in Texas, when it comes to stacking, you need to be as tight as a fiddle string, or you're as dumb as a wagon wheel.

[Paul]

5 hours ago, Bimetallic said:

...........or you're as dumb as a wagon wheel.

Americans dumb ? never heard that before 🙄🤣😇

In that case, why does the whole world not all drive Reliant Robin cars, they are cheaper than a Bugatti Veyron

or

eating Popeyes Chicken instead of a Michelin 3 star restaurant

[LawrenceChard]

11 hours ago, Bimetallic said:

I have a bit of a different take.

First, it's fascinating and fun to watch Brits (and the Irish!) argue. All these strange expressions, like "hen pecked", "crack on", getting "unfair stick", etc. This is all a treat to an American. It's like visiting for free.

I've known of his existence for all of ten minutes, but I do like Mr. Chard. What a gentleman and a scholar. What's the yardstick for being knighted in Britain? Has Mr. Chard met the criteria yet? I assume he founded the company and nurtured it to its present proportions? Do entrepreneurs get knighted in Britain? I thought I had heard about Dyson getting it, but I might be confusing him for someone else. I mean the vacuum genius. If he can get knighted, I hope Mr. Chard can as well.

And, perhaps surprisingly, I think Mr. Blehhhh's conduct is fine. A lot of stackers seem to overpay for their silver, and it bothers me. It's partly why I put together my snapshot spreadsheet a while ago. Some of you seem to be offended by someone coming into a silver forum and asking a silver dealer why his prices for silver appear to be inflated compared to another silver dealer in the same jurisdiction. To me, this is manly business, and men should be men, at all times. In America we say "don't get your panties in a twist". I'm not sure how to put it in the Queen's.

Maybe he complained a bit excessively if we tabulate all the posts, but the general thrust seems legitimate. One should never overpay for silver, and if two dealers of comparable ethics, reputation, and manly virtue differ in price, go with the lower price. Don't be a sucker. Or as they say in Texas, when it comes to stacking, you need to be as tight as a fiddle string, or you're as dumb as a wagon wheel.

Thanks for your contribution and comments. All sounds very sensible. Are you sure you're American?

One piece of advice we have been giving to investors for a long time, is to buy at the lowest premium within reason.

[LawrenceChard]

18 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

We will be quite happy to give you a nicer price.

Just add on 10% (or whatever), and we will think it is a much nicer price!

Update:

This morning, we were about to make some adjustments to our Metalor kilo silver bar prices, but...

We have sold out.

So for now, we have taken them off sale (incuding "Orderable"), are are in process of replacing them with a "new product" - "New One Kilo Silver Bars - Our Choice"

[Bimetallic]

27 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

Update:

This morning, we were about to make some adjustments to our Metalor kilo silver bar prices, but...

We have sold out.

So for now, we have taken them off sale (incuding "Orderable"), are are in process of replacing them with a "new product" - "New One Kilo Silver Bars - Our Choice"

Sounds like your price might have been too low, if you've sold out.

How do you determine the price for things anyway? Is it based on sales activity/demand, or do you look at what Baird's and other dealers are offering? If you're on track to sell out, do you raise the price in an attempt to maintain some inventory?

[Bimetallic]

35 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

Thanks for your contribution and comments. All sounds very sensible. Are you sure you're American?

One piece of advice we have been giving to investors for a long time, is to buy at the lowest premium within reason.

What's with the bit about "within reason"? Why shouldn't investors/stackers/people just buy at the lowest premium they can find? Do you mean "within reason" to mean something like "from reputable dealers"?

[Bimetallic]

38 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

Thanks for your contribution and comments. All sounds very sensible. Are you sure you're American?

One piece of advice we have been giving to investors for a long time, is to buy at the lowest premium within reason.

And yes, I'm both American and sensible. We're a sensible lot. My parents immigrated from Mexico, so more specifically I'm Mexican-American, the best of both worlds in terms of sensibility 😀.

[SilverPirate007]

1 minute ago, Bimetallic said:

And yes, I'm both American and sensible. We're a sensible lot. My parents immigrated from Mexico, so more specifically I'm Mexican-American, the best of both worlds in terms of sensibility 😀.

Absolutely the best of both worlds! I love Mexico.

[LawrenceChard]

14 minutes ago, Bimetallic said:

And yes, I'm both American and sensible. We're a sensible lot. My parents immigrated from Mexico, so more specifically I'm Mexican-American, the best of both worlds in terms of sensibility 😀.

It was Americans who elected Donald Trump, although I realise it was indirectly.

Mind you, we elected Boris Johnson, also indirectly, so this weakens our bragging rights.

Sense and sensibility. It sounds like you are well qualified. Someone should write a book about it.

If Trump gets his way, stops all immigration, and manages to deport all imimigrants, The U.S.A. would get mightly empty. I believe more than 99% of Amercans are immigrants.

[Bimetallic]

1 minute ago, LawrenceChard said:

It was Americans who elected Donald Trump, although I realise it was indirectly.

Mind you, we elected Boris Johnson, also indirectly, so this weakens our bragging rights.

Sense and sensibility. It sounds like you are well qualified. Someone should write a book about it.

If Trump gets his way, stops all immigration, and manages to deport all imimigrants, The U.S.A. would get mightly empty. I believe more than 99% of Amercans are immigrants.

None of that stuff is going to happen. And 99% of Americans are immigrants? Immigrants are around 14% of the population. How many Americans are immigrants will depend on how we define American, e.g. for citizens it will be less than 14%. Did you mean descended from immigrants?

[LawrenceChard]

On 22/04/2020 at 16:14, Bimetallic said:

What's with the bit about "within reason"? Why shouldn't investors/stackers/people just buy at the lowest premium they can find? Do you mean "within reason" to mean something like "from reputable dealers"?

That's part of it.

I posted a link a few days ago about a guy called Harvey Michael Ross, which I think is worth reading:

But there are other aspects.

Some people buy bars because they ae cheaper, but when it comes to selling, they are often harder to shift than equivalent coins, and buying prices are often lower.

Also some people buy "ex-jewellery gold coins because they ae cheap, but again, they discover the downside when the come to sell them.

Then, there are fakes about, and some cheap sellers aren't around when you go back to complain.

I usually just say "with reason" because it is more concise.

[LawrenceChard]

2 minutes ago, Bimetallic said:

None of that stuff is going to happen. And 99% of Americans are immigrants? Immigrants are around 14% of the population. How many Americans are immigrants will depend on how we define American, e.g. for citizens it will be less than 14%. Did you mean descended from immigrants?

Yes am including multi-generational immigrants.

I like to inject at least a touch of humour into life.

[silverdocket]

1 hour ago, LawrenceChard said:

Are you sure you're American?

Probably part irish... Sure we built the world at this stage.....lol 😂🍀☘️🍀☘️🍀☘️🍀☘️🍀☘️🍀☘️🍀☘️🍀☘️🍀☘️

[Blehhhh]

Glad to see this thread is settling down.

And now look at Gold....should have bought that 50 Pesos yesterday. DOH

[Stu]

17 minutes ago, Blehhhh said:

Glad to see this thread is settling down.

And now look at Gold....should have bought that 50 Pesos yesterday. DOH

I thought the same when a was waiting for HGM to drop the price of a 50 pesos below a grand a couple of years ago. Wished I had pulled the trigger at the time. 

[LawrenceChard]

38 minutes ago, Blehhhh said:

Glad to see this thread is settling down.

And now look at Gold....should have bought that 50 Pesos yesterday. DOH

No, you should have bought them back in October:

Chards Coin and Bullion <info@chards.co.uk> Unsubscribe	Wed, 16 Oct 2019, 19:29
to Lawrence

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mexico 50 Pesos - 3% Premium and gold was only about £1160 Hindsight!

[Bimetallic]

Relatedly, on the subject of dealer pricing I've often wondered how some dealers survive and grow even though they charge significantly more than others. America, being the cradle of civilization and of stacking, is a good place to observe the market (and probably has the lowest prices given the economy of scale and no VAT).

There seems to be a strange ecosystem with some smaller to mid-size dealers that offer much higher prices than most of the major dealers. They have no advantage in terms of service or reliability, yet they're selling metal to someone. It seems like there might be some number of buyers who end up on these sites, don't know much about other dealers and their prices, and just proceed to buy. Older folks maybe?

The largest dealer in the US and the world is APMEX. But they don't offer the best prices. Why are they the largest? I have no idea. There are several major dealers in the US that consistently beat APMEX on price, and would seem to be just as reputable and reliable, so I don't get it. Perhaps Mr. Chard could comment on why one dealer would triumph over other large dealers. @LawrenceChard

The lowest priced dealers in the US are Silver.com and SD Bullion. Silver.com was launched by JM Bullion, a major dealer probably second only to APMEX in volume (and they paid almost a million dollars for the Silver.com domain). For some reason Silver.com charges significantly lower prices than JM Bullion, even though they're the same company.

One dealer told me that JM Bullion launched Silver.com in an effort toward "price discovery", or to help determine the "true price" of various bullion products. I don't fully understand it. So you're a company operating two dealers, and you can observe buyer activity on each site, how your products are doing on two sites with two different prices... And then what? How does it help to sell bullion at a lower price than your main business sells it? I guess they would get roughly twice the number of results on Google and other search engines. It's a way to get more net business. (I wonder if JM Bullion and Silver.com combined are larger than APMEX these days.)

More inside baseball: Both JM Bullion and Silver.com use A-Mark for fulfillment, which is why their shipments come out of Las Vegas. I'm impressed that they're able to offer low prices given that they don't do their own fulfillment and use a third party. I would think that would eat into their margins. (A-Mark is a major behind the scenes dealer/wholesaler, and one of the US Mint's Authorized Purchasers – the Mint doesn't sell directly to most dealers.) APMEX does their own fulfillment.

[silverdocket]

22 minutes ago, Stu said:

I thought the same when a was waiting for HGM to drop the price of a 50 pesos below a grand a couple of years ago. Wished I had pulled the trigger at the time. 

Same with the buffalo for me. 

[LawrenceChard]

2 hours ago, Bimetallic said:

How do you determine the price for things anyway? Is it based on sales activity/demand, or do you look at what Baird's and other dealers are offering? If you're on track to sell out, do you raise the price in an attempt to maintain some inventory?

You have got some of it there:

Supply / demand.

Balance price against stock (sorry inventory).

Market intelligence, which does include comparison work.

There are many more factors, and it depends on what type of product, the market liquidity, market structure, secondary market or new.

I am sure we have an info or blog page somewhere, but can't find it quickly.

You might find this interesting:

https://www.chards.co.uk/blog/uk-gold-bullion-market-since-1964/254

 

[Blehhhh]

57 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

No, you should have bought them back in October:

Chards Coin and Bullion <info@chards.co.uk> Unsubscribe	Wed, 16 Oct 2019, 19:29
to Lawrence

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mexico 50 Pesos - 3% Premium and gold was only about £1160 Hindsight!

Very true. And back in October buying gold would never have even crossed my mind.

[dicker]

1 hour ago, LawrenceChard said:

You have got some of it there:

Supply / demand.

Balance price against stock (sorry inventory).

Market intelligence, which does include comparison work.

There are many more factors, and it depends on what type of product, the market liquidity, market structure, secondary market or new.

I am sure we have an info or blog page somewhere, but can't find it quickly.

You might find this interesting:

https://www.chards.co.uk/blog/uk-gold-bullion-market-since-1964/254

 

The Bullion Market since 1964 is an interesting read. I had not appreciated the twists and turns.  
 

I had no idea that owning Au bars was at one time illegal!

Best

Dicker