2019 Piedfort Sovereign and Five Sovereign

[Sovereign]

on fb 

[SilverPanFan]

@Numistacker When will a rose gold Sovereign come out? I can’t afford the shipping to ship it out to the US especially FL. The US made a rose gold breast cancer coin last year.

[goldmember44]

22 hours ago, *tada* said:

Can’t resist...😅

Anyone knows where to find mintage history on 5 sov BU? Is 500 among the lowest?

I am in the process of compiling a spreadsheet on mintages. I don't have all the BU 5sovs yet, I think, but this is what I've been able to find so far:

2005: 936
2006: 731
2007: 768
2008: 750
2009: 1,000
2010: 1,000
2011: 657
2012: 496
2016: 498
2018: 1,000 (this is the maximum planned... whether they have minted so many I really doubt, since it hasn't sold out yet)
2019: 505

 

So.... as you can see, in reality, a mintage of 500 is fairly average when you take recent history into account. It seems that in most of the years the planned mintage was 1,000, but fewer numbers actually sold.. having sold out completely only in 2008, 2009 and 2010.

EDIT: I've added some more mintage numbers from 2005 - 2010 (sourced from the Royal Mint website) -- thanks to @arcglide

[westminstrel]

4 hours ago, Sovereign said:

on fb 

What group is that? 😬

[Sovereign]

3 minutes ago, westminstrel said:

What group is that? 😬

 

[kimchi]

18 hours ago, SovTracker said:

A 2018 NGC graded PF70UCAM  Piedfort sold this MONTH for £703 including shipping, £122 cheaper than at issue!!

 

18 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

fair comment but we are at the worst time of the year for selling 

Also the Mint only withdrew the rest of the 2018s from sale a month or so ago, and they are still available from dealers, some of them as many on here know trusted for quality control that the Mint don't always deliver direct.

It's not the right time to be selling either the Sapphire coronation Piedfort or the garter 2017 version imvho. Supply of the former exceeds present demand (available at slightly below Mint cost from some resellers), and the latter hasn't reached its possible potential after the initial 'flavour of the month' rush. All those who wanted a Sapphire got one, and for the moment still can. Once they are all in collector hands and the stock is gone this won't be the case.

I think both will be long-termers and that's why I'm happily sitting on mine. It's not an established series (yet?) but I'm confident Pistrucci will never make me a loss and the Sapphire could be significant in Elizabeth II's reign that we will never see repeated.

I also think the Mint got the design of this one absolutely spot on - a regular proof, the first of an annual series of now 3, no contrivances, exactly what I'd hoped for. The mintage however I think is way, way off. But it's probably roughly about what 2018 sold I'm guessing (be very interesting when the mintage is released) so again anyone buying in should be able to get a good one. At that mintage I'm not attracted though - if they sell poorly and some contrived coin is produced next year it could finish the series imvho, but I think given time and patience the first two will always be significant.

[westminstrel]

41 minutes ago, Sovereign said:

 

Thanks 😀👍🏼

[Zhorro]

1 hour ago, goldmember44 said:

I am in the process of compiling a spreadsheet on mintages. I don't have all the BU 5sovs yet, I think, but this is what I've been able to find so far:

2005: 936
2006: 731
2007: 768
2008: 750
2009: 1,000
2010: 1,000
2011: 657
2012: 496
2016: 498
2018: 1,000 (this is the maximum planned... whether they have minted so many I really doubt, since it hasn't sold out yet)
2019: 505

 

So.... as you can see, in reality, a mintage of 500 is fairly average when you take recent history into account. It seems that in most of the years the planned mintage was 1,000, but fewer numbers actually sold.. having sold out completely only in 2008, 2009 and 2010.

EDIT: I've added some more mintage numbers from 2005 - 2010 (sourced from the Royal Mint website) -- thanks to @arcglide

These issue figures are from Coins of England (2018, pp.114-117) for the £5 BU sovereign:

1984: 15,104

1985: 13,626

1986: 7,723

1987: 5,694

1988: 3,315

1989: 2,937

1990: 1,226

1991: 976

1992: 797

1993: 906

1994: 1,000

1995: 1,000

1996: 901

1997: 802

1998: 825

1999: 970

2000: 994

2001: 1,000

2002: 1,370

2003: 812

2004: 1,000

and

2013: 262

2014: 605

2015: 750 (Jody Clark) (whether minted or actually sold, not sure)

 

So it can be seen from the late 1980s sales of 500-1,000 were not uncommon.

[goldmember44]

Thanks for that Zhorro! I guess the high numbers of the early 80s probably corresponded with a much lower gold price...

[sovereignsteve]

@goldmember44 and @Zhorro

Perhaps when your mintage lists are complete you would consider publishing them here? 😊

 

 

[goldmember44]

4 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

@goldmember44 and @Zhorro

Perhaps when your mintage lists are complete you would consider publishing them here? 😊

 

 

That's a good idea, I will  It's still a work in progress at the moment, though. But we'll get there

[SovTracker]

On 22/07/2019 at 22:30, Sovereign said:

@SovTracker agree with you on the 2018 piedfort sovereign i had mine on here for sale for £750 over a week with no interest then sold for less .. 

(bought it less then the royal mint issue price anyway)

passing on both of them ..

about the proof sovereign if it’s nothing special will wait and buy a 70 grade at the right price 

atm focusing on the old sovs recently bought 1911 proof sovereign NGC PF65+ Ultra Cameo (hard to find in UC grade) 

will receive it tomorrow 😀

 

Now that's what I call a Sovereign!!  I can manage a PCGS PR66CAM but not UCAM!! and on your it really shows. 

I started off collecting older Sovereign's 1838 onwards, don't ask me why, I never got into the early King's but loved the Victoria Young Head and Shield back so started there. 

I went mad on grading 2 years ago and have over 90% of my "Keeper's" graded now. 

I'm after a 1996 Proof Sovereign PR70DCAM or PF70UCAM to complete my 1980 to 2019 all in 70's holder's. Also a 1979 Proof in a 69 or 70 Holder. 

Then I think I'll pack in collecting the new Sovereign's and just concentrate on adding / upgrading my collection where I can. 

[*tada*]

Anyone has one in hand? How does it look?

[GoodAsGold]

On 23/07/2019 at 16:01, goldmember44 said:

I am in the process of compiling a spreadsheet on mintages. I don't have all the BU 5sovs yet, I think, but this is what I've been able to find so far:

2005: 936
2006: 731
2007: 768
2008: 750
2009: 1,000
2010: 1,000
2011: 657
2012: 496
2016: 498
2018: 1,000 (this is the maximum planned... whether they have minted so many I really doubt, since it hasn't sold out yet)
2019: 505

 

So.... as you can see, in reality, a mintage of 500 is fairly average when you take recent history into account. It seems that in most of the years the planned mintage was 1,000, but fewer numbers actually sold.. having sold out completely only in 2008, 2009 and 2010.

EDIT: I've added some more mintage numbers from 2005 - 2010 (sourced from the Royal Mint website) -- thanks to @arcglide

@goldmember44  If it still helps you at all, the 2017 BU quintuple had a mintage of 1,000 coins. It's actually deep proof like on the reverse and only BU as such on the obverse. The reverse is so impressive that some DPL quintuples were mistakenly encapsulated and labelled as proofs according to previous informed comment by @Numistacker. Sorry for the late response.

[goldmember44]

3 minutes ago, GoodAsGold said:

@goldmember44  If it still helps you at all, the 2017 BU quintuple had a mintage of 1,000 coins. It's actually deep proof like on the reverse and only BU as such on the obverse. The reverse is so impressive that some DPL quintuples were mistakenly encapsulated and labelled as proofs according to previous informed comment by @Numistacker. Sorry for the late response.

Thanks for that

[Oldun]

On 22/07/2019 at 17:34, Zhorro said:

I totally agree with what you are saying about the Royal Mint's issue policy.  And then we had the winning of the cricket world cup last week and they could not be bothered to do anything special for it!

 

The Royal Mint really pushed the boat out (sarc) and quickly produced a cupro-nickel uncirculated 2019 £5 Queen’s Beast Lion for £13 that you had to pre order by yesterday, August 1st for delivery in September. I have ordered one.

https://www.royalmint.com/our-coins/interests/sport/Lion-of-England-2019-UK-5-pound-Coin/

[Sovereign]

just had a phone call from the royal mint trying to sell these coins 

she said the £5 doing really well 

asked her how many left she said just over 120 pieces..

wish i had this phone call when the 2017 came out lol 

[Zhorro]

1 hour ago, Sovereign said:

just had a phone call from the royal mint trying to sell these coins 

she said the £5 doing really well 

asked her how many left she said just over 120 pieces..

wish i had this phone call when the 2017 came out lol 

There does not seem to be much excitement around these two coins.

[goldmember44]

17 minutes ago, Zhorro said:

There does not seem to be much excitement around these two coins.

I think partially due to the price, not every collector can afford to fork out an extra £2000 at this point... it is a more exclusive buy.

[kimchi]

19 minutes ago, goldmember44 said:

I think partially due to the price, not every collector can afford to fork out an extra £2000 at this point... it is a more exclusive buy.

It's indeed a lot of money for (presently) somewhat niche coins, long term I see both the five Sovs in general and (depending on what they do with it - no monkeying around with gimmicks Royal Mint!) Piedfort as doing well, that's why I previously put some of my money into Piedforts. If they are a slow sell again as appears to be the case I might well sell some things to grab one. Another issue below maximum mintage like last year (and for the first ever 'regular') would be terrific imvho, best news possible

Just a shame to see not many (any?) picked up on here, would love to see them, hear about quality etc. Maybe I've missed something on the Today I Received thread?

[Oldun]

No, you missed little...most swerved it to the best of my knowledge. A 100 years from now, picking one up now might have been wise but who here will care by then.....stuffed in amongst a decade’s worth of “specials”, the only one worth collecting being the 2017 series...?

[kimchi]

1 hour ago, Oldun said:

No, you missed little...most swerved it to the best of my knowledge. A 100 years from now, picking one up now might have been wise but who here will care by then.....stuffed in amongst a decade’s worth of “specials”, the only one worth collecting being the 2017 series...?

Absolutely disagree on all fronts, but different opinions are part of what makes life (and this forum) interesting!

The 1989 Proof Sov wasn't liked at the time - look at it now! Not saying either of these will come close to that (I am not a 5 Sov man, so no idea really, and the Piedforts are new), but I bought into the Piedforts long-term. Luckily (atm) I can afford to never think of selling my FDC coins below what I paid, and I expect to see a bit of profit at least in my lifetime.

I also disagree on that the 2017 is very much different to other issues so far. The Pistrucci, the Sapphire Coronation and now the first ever 'regular' - all have clear and defined roles in sets of that year. Even if the Mint mess up and issue some gimmick next year I think the first three will always be desirable.

[goldmember44]

As far as modern sovereigns go, the last 5 years or so have been the most exciting in terms of inventiveness and surprises. I think it's great, it keeps the sovereign franchise alive without giving away too much tradition, and keeps collectors on their toes.

 

[Zhorro]

On 02/08/2019 at 20:42, goldmember44 said:

As far as modern sovereigns go, the last 5 years or so have been the most exciting in terms of inventiveness and surprises. I think it's great, it keeps the sovereign franchise alive without giving away too much tradition, and keeps collectors on their toes.

 

I agree that the Royal Mint has produced some innovative items recently (in particular the 2017 Pistrucci sovereign – which drew me into collecting sovereigns), but I do think it is overdoing it terms of variations.

I bought the 2019 Matt BU sovereign in Spring but then two months later there was the limited edition SOTD version.  If I had known about the Matt SOTD version at the start, I would probably have just bought it and not the original one.  I am almost starting to think that the Royal Mint is being deceptive in order to generate sales!  I am astonished that the Royal Mint seems to be incapable of producing a list of its forthcoming releases and issue dates.

Increasingly the success of a coin is judged on how quickly it sells out.  My big quandary therefore is when the 2020 Proof is released later this year, do I buy it or hold off?  It is unlikely to sell out quickly, and based on past experience it is likely that in twelve to eighteen months’ time it should be possible to buy it at lower than the issue price (subject to what happens to the price of gold).  If other people start to think like this the Royal Mint’s focus on varieties may actually start to harm its core sales – thus requiring more varieties in order to make up its sales revenue!

[goldmember44]

3 minutes ago, Zhorro said:

I agree that the Royal Mint has produced some innovative items recently (in particular the 2017 Pistrucci sovereign – which drew me into collecting sovereigns), but I do think it is overdoing it terms of variations.

I bought the 2019 Matt BU sovereign in Spring but then two months later there was the limited edition SOTD version.  If I had known about the Matt SOTD version at the start, I would probably have just bought it and not the original one.  I am almost starting to think that the Royal Mint is being deceptive in order to generate sales!  I am astonished that the Royal Mint seems to be incapable of producing a list of its forthcoming releases and issue dates.

Increasingly the success of a coin is judged on how quickly it sells out.  My big quandary therefore is when the 2020 Proof is released later this year, do I buy it or hold off?  It is unlikely to sell out quickly, and based on past experience it is likely that in twelve to eighteen months’ time it should be possible to buy it at lower than the issue price (subject to what happens to the price of gold).  If other people start to think like this the Royal Mint’s focus on varieties may actually start to harm its core sales – thus requiring more varieties in order to make up its sales revenue!

As for the Matt BU... I still think it's a good buy, despite the Victoria SOTD, priced £365, which is actually not a huge markup on the current gold price now... I intend to get myself one of those too, before prices go up prompted by the rise in gold price.