2019 Piedfort Sovereign and Five Sovereign

[kimchi]

1 hour ago, Zhorro said:

I agree that the Royal Mint has produced some innovative items recently (in particular the 2017 Pistrucci sovereign – which drew me into collecting sovereigns), but I do think it is overdoing it terms of variations.

I bought the 2019 Matt BU sovereign in Spring but then two months later there was the limited edition SOTD version.  If I had known about the Matt SOTD version at the start, I would probably have just bought it and not the original one.  I am almost starting to think that the Royal Mint is being deceptive in order to generate sales!  I am astonished that the Royal Mint seems to be incapable of producing a list of its forthcoming releases and issue dates.

Increasingly the success of a coin is judged on how quickly it sells out.  My big quandary therefore is when the 2020 Proof is released later this year, do I buy it or hold off?  It is unlikely to sell out quickly, and based on past experience it is likely that in twelve to eighteen months’ time it should be possible to buy it at lower than the issue price (subject to what happens to the price of gold).  If other people start to think like this the Royal Mint’s focus on varieties may actually start to harm its core sales – thus requiring more varieties in order to make up its sales revenue!

I completely agree with your first two paragraphs, and there are concerns, and the Mint seem very arrogant to me in the way they release things. Not just proofs but also things like the supposed circulation 10ps in 2018 which never turned up (had to buy them for £2 each), £2 coins that they never release properly etc. I do think much that frustrates me is deception by omission. The Matt nonsense left a bad taste in particular, though I think they could go on to do very well.

Also agreed on how fast they sell out as a 'judgement', I would also add the quick flip potential as folk assess them. I don't sell and I don't flip so I see this and miss out on coins (as a loyal customer too) and shake my head sadly. I recognise market forces and all that and people are in this for different reasons, so good luck to them, I blame the Mint for shafting collectors who just want to enjoy the coins. I had Snowmen when they were going for crazy money but I'm not in this for a business (again nothing against those who do), I gave them away as Xmas pressies to people I knew would love them for life and always remember me etc - lovely keepsakes.

The Pistruccis were always obvious winners but I think the second and third Piedforts have been overlooked, both significant imvho, just not FotM (flavour of the month) with quick flip potential. With Sov proofs Liz isn't getting any younger so I think these are good buys, but as you say if you can get good examples a bit down the line for cheaper than release price that's perfect!

1 hour ago, goldmember44 said:

As for the Matt BU... I still think it's a good buy, despite the Victoria SOTD, priced £365, which is actually not a huge markup on the current gold price now... I intend to get myself one of those too, before prices go up prompted by the rise in gold price.

Very good point, they suddenly don't look too expensive do they?!! The only problem is the common production flaws if grading. My understanding is NGC will still award a 70 with 'no post-production flaws' and as seen with the both 'Matts' this is the case, but if you submit later than release the doubt may be in their mind as to where some 'damage' occurred and they may be marked down (?). One of the vagaries of grading I hate. I have modern proofs which are flawless and quite rightly 70s, but I also have some very rare proof Libertads which were very carefully looked after and I have no doubt there are no 'post-production' errors at all, yet a couple got 69s purely (I speculate) because they were submitted some years after production. With the mintage on these coins that is a huge opportunity cost so I'll be resubmitting (they all look perfect under 6x) but I'll have to do the whole set again to get matching submission numbers for such an important set. Sorry for digressing but imo there shouldn't be all this monkeying around when so much money is at stake!

 

[westminstrel]

Well what do you know - the 2018 Piedfort and Five Sovereign seem to be back in stock.

https://www.royalmint.com/sovereign/2018/

[westminstrel]

@Numistacker - You mentioned in your video that the Five Sovereign is sold out at the Mint, but it is still very much available on there. 

Did you see it get sold out and come back in stock? I don’t think it ever sold out.

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, westminstrel said:

@Numistacker - You mentioned in your video that the Five Sovereign is sold out at the Mint, but it is still very much available on there. 

Did you see it get sold out and come back in stock? I don’t think it ever sold out.

I was told it had sold out and mentioned it on that basis. When I looked it was still there. This issue has had tons of technical problems. I have sent back two of these to the mint and not replacing the second one.

[arcglide]

I cancelled my 5sov order.. the cost just didn't equate to the numerous quality problems from the Royal Mint
I am not paying top dollar for a sub-standard product

I real shame because IMO the matte finish (on my 2019 sotd sov) looks great in hand

[goldmember44]

I wonder why there's so many problems with the matt finish. It's as if they're not really sure how to do it properly, and experimenting on the sovereigns.

[Silvergun]

Sending my 2019 sotd matte finish sovereign back today , as its covered with black spots under magnification , very poor quality from the Mint again for a premium coin .

[*tada*]

Mine looked fine when I got it and is now in the hands of PCGS gods. Will share the trueview image once graded - I think some of the original flaws on the coin probably doesn’t impact grading unless apparent. I see these from non proof versions of the platinum coins issued by US mint all the time.

[Clens92]

The way that certain people hyped these, it's almost as if they were on a commission...

Absolute failure of a coin issue.

[westminstrel]

4 hours ago, Clens92 said:

The way that certain people hyped these, it's almost as if they were on a commission...

Absolute failure of a coin issue.

Totally agree! They tried to create a sense of urgency as if these would sell out immediately (and as if people were that stupid) 🙄

[trozau]

Is it just my eyes or have the relief been lower on the sovereigns for the past few years (since 2016 - fifth effigy of QE2)? 

[augur]

45 minutes ago, trozau said:

Is it just my eyes or have the relief been lower on the sovereigns for the past few years (since 2016 - fifth effigy of QE2)? 

Yes, very deflated relief. Same as the 2007/2008 ones. Does the Mint know something we don't?!

[trozau]

4 hours ago, augur said:

Yes, very deflated relief. Same as the 2007/2008 ones. Does the Mint know something we don't?!

Ah yes, the 2007-2008 infamous re-cut of Pistrucci's design by BRM engravers. I avoid those years' issue. 2009-2015  returned to the pre 2007 reliefs. 

[goldmember44]

5 hours ago, trozau said:

Is it just my eyes or have the relief been lower on the sovereigns for the past few years (since 2016 - fifth effigy of QE2)? 

I can't say I've noticed. From what I have heard in the 2019 sovereign the Pistrucci design has been digitally remastered. It should be more detailed. I don't yet own the 2019 proof myself, but I have the 2019 Victoria strike on the day BU, and I have to say it looks very detailed for a BU coin. Looks more detailed and precise than the 2019 bullion sovereign, that's for sure.

[whitesands1]

Further to the thread on 2019 Matte Sovereign increase, I noticed the price of 2018 and 2019  Five-Sovereign Pieces has been increased to £2150.

I remember many of us thought the 2017 BU Five Sovereign Piece was expensive at £1875,  Just shows you.