Today I Received.....

[Cornishfarmer]

Today also....

If you decide to get to purchase any more from the American contact would love one of those ms70 crocs.

[Danny-boy]

If you decide to get to purchase any more from the American contact would love one of those ms70 crocs.

I'm gobsmacked that there are MS70 crocs.

[Cornishfarmer]

I'm gobsmacked that there are MS70 crocs.

That's why I like it, don't think many will be sent for grading, because they chances of then coming back low and they are cheap for an ms70 coin

[Danny-boy]

That's why I like it, don't think many will be sent for grading, because they chances of then coming back low and they are cheap for an ms70 coin

Yes, that's a very good point CF.

[a_a]

Keith what size is that Pamp thing? I don't like the small ones in little plastic packs but that's awesome!

[ChrisSilver]

Keith what size is that Pamp thing? I don't like the small ones in little plastic packs but that's awesome!

 

PAMP Lady fortuna bars. They are beautiful! Not sure what size Keith has there. Either a 250g, 5oz or 10oz.

 

I have a 500g but which I got the smaller 5oz size instead as the dimensions are nicer (there isn't extra space above and below the fortuna design)

I will eventually buy a 10oz. These bars have quite a bit of premium on them compared to other silver bars. But they sure are beautiful.

 

Looking on youtube it seems that the older PAMP bars 100g, 250g, 5oz, 10oz, 500g, 1kg used to all come with serial numbers on the bars. Shame they don't make them like that anymore. However, one positive of the newer bars is the better plastic box they come in. Before was just some flimsy piece of plastic apparently. Now its a hard box.

[a_a]

Yeah I think a 5oz-er will be going on my 'to-do' list

 

I just received three more Morgans from SilverTrader, they are really bright, very happy with them

 

 

[morezone]

The Pamp bars are beautiful. I paid £220 for my 10oz but just recently got rid to spend the money on other stuff.

[Keithoil]

@a_a

 

It is 5 ounces and in a hard plastic case. It is very nice.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Keithoil

[HelpingHands]

@Danny & Cornishfarmer - Have you seen this video?

[Danny-boy]

@Danny & Cornishfarmer - Have you seen this video?

Interesting HH, just goes to prove (in my eyes) that the big players can "buy" MS70's from the grading houses.

Underneath the "I" is exactly where my imperfections are too.

[ChrisSilver]

Do people buy graded coins because the want a perfect coin or do they buy graded coins because of the label, if it's the later then the 70 label is still there but then when you come to sell it, can you claim it's a perfect 70. It says it on the label, does that mean it is. I would say no. The label has now just came to represent that the coin may be a perfect coin. Probably just as much chance as a real MS70 from an unopened tube than wasting money on NGC.

I also don't like the fact that PCGS has 2 grading services. A standard one and a 'secure plus' one. The secure one being that they scrutinise the coin more so it's harder to get a perfect rating. Surely a MS70 is a 70, and that they should have the same strict grading process for all of their grading services. Rather than a pay extra and we check properly type of service.

[Danny-boy]

Have to agree Chris, I think grading is losing a lot of it's credibility of late.

It's a shame really, but they have the power to make themselves more money by over grading coins.

So they do.

[HighlandTiger]

I also don't like the fact that PCGS has 2 grading services. A standard one and a 'secure plus' one. The secure one being that they scrutinise the coin more so it's harder to get a perfect rating. Surely a MS70 is a 70, and that they should have the same strict grading process for all of their grading services. Rather than a pay extra and we check properly type of service.

As I've said before, and what you've just said proves my point, grading is a rip off. It plays on the greed on people thinking they can command a higher price when selling.

 

I know some of you like slabbed coins, and each to their own. But in the long run, I'd rather buy 2 scratched/scuffed/milkspotted bullion coins than one slabbed "if you give me a lot of money, I'll tell everyone this is a perfect coin" one. 

[Keithoil]

I have thoroughly checked mine and I too have an issue on the inner ring under the A of Saltwater. See picture.

 

I have emailed MCM to see what there response is watch this space.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Keithoil

[motorbikez]

The one you sent me Keith has a similar mark between the W and A of saltwater but mine is just a bullion coin and not MS70.

 

I think you will rightly have a claim against NGC through MCM as they are the ones grading the coin as perfect when it clearly is not,good luck with it mate and let us know how you get on.

[Keithoil]

Here is their reply.

 

Dear keithoil,

NGC and PCGS state that for a coin to grade MS70, no flaws can be visible under 5X magnification. However, both grading services do allow “as made” imperfections that are the result of the minting process itself.

These Crocodile coins are bullion coins and are not struck to the same strict requirements as collector Proof coins. All of the crocodile coins will have various very minor marks that are a result of the minting process. These marks are absolutely normal for this type of bullion coin and do not detract from the value.

Should you have any additional questions, please feel welcome to contact us. We are happy to help!
Thank You & Best Regards,
Sinclaire
 

 

I have told them that the fault is visible with the naked eye.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Keithoil

[HelpingHands]

Ah so MS70 now means the best available for that coin  (A.K.A. the best of a bad bunch)

[Danny-boy]

What a load of rubbish!!!!!

[motorbikez]

In other words MS70 69 etc means F all, according to NGC and PCGS get out clause, or is it the sellers response(MCM) who can't be bothered to contact NGC on your behalf.

 

In my eyes MCM have just blown the grading system out of the water, there is no point using their argument ( MCM) in paying a premium price for a product if they are going to use this pathetic get out clause.

 

Try NGC direct Keith.

[HighlandTiger]

Not gonna say I told you so..............I'm not,......I'm not.........But.....!!

[Keithoil]

Just got two more NGC graded Australian Crocs, oh and a 2012 Panda MS69..

 

Same issue on the crocs but not as pronounced, has to be a die issue in the mint!!!

 

That said I will still collect NGC graded coins..

[doogs]

Just got two more NGC graded Australian Crocs, oh and a 2012 Panda MS69..

 

Same issue on the crocs but not as pronounced, has to be a die issue in the mint!!!

 

That said I will still collect NGC graded coins..

 

Better hold onto that one - could be a "rare die crack issue" lol

[Danny-boy]

Better hold onto that one - could be a "rare die crack issue" lol

I hope so, I have three the same (ungraded).

This must be an issue with a lot of the coins.

[Ares]

Seems a bit BS that a coin which isn't perfect can be effectively graded as such, although presumably it could be considered with respect to the series itself I suppose, MS-70 being the best looking croc (as opposed to perfect).

Still BS though, IMO.