Pete

Yes - defects as these bullion coins are produced like metal washers.
You are fortunate that there aren't scuffs, scratches, pits, reeded dings and milk spots as well.

Pot luck and good luck.

When the first 999 silver Britannias were minted I bought directly over 100.
They were sold in plastic sheets so each coin was in its own protective bubble.
When you prised open the flimsy sheet all the neighbouring cells popped open so a c**p design.
Pretty much every coin was badly scuffed on primarily the Queens face at its highest points.
In addition a high percentage had small pits and reeded dings caused by edge impact on the face.
The scuff marks were attributed to damaged conveyor belts, or something, and I guess the dings etc are caused when they all drop into a bin.
There was no quality control other than weight - shocking.
Even repeat sellers on eBay were warning of bad defects so as to not get coins returned.
More recently I bought a couple of tubes of the QB Greyhound and I would have to estimate that 60% or more have some scuffs on the highest points.
These marks are not caused by rubbing in the tubes.

Come on guys and gals ... stop moaning about Brexit and kicking the government because we cannot import our silver coins at low or zero VAT.
Whilst a member of the EU goods can move freely between borders without paying additional tax.
This has now ended so that privilege has finished.
What you need to understand is that the low VAT charged has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH BREXIT.
Take a look at the map here showing the standard rates of VAT across the EU.
Most countries are at 20% and some higher.
Germany is one of the lowest at 19% and Finland is the highest at 24%
THESE ARE THE RATES OF VAT charged on most goods.
Estonia is the exception at 0% but although some stackers have purchased from the European Mint or through a group buy, many will have purchased ( and I include myself ) from GS.be, CoinInvest / STG and many of the better known German coin sellers.
THESE SELLERS WERE OPERATING A SCHEME CALLED DIFFERENTIAL VAT
This was a loophole in the VAT system where a seller could charge VAT on their margin rather than the intrinsic full value of the item.
This is entirely legal and is why GS.be and others can sell at such low prices meaning not charging the 20% or thereabouts VAT.
Since we have exited the EU all goods arriving from the EU are no longer "free movement" so are subject to full VAT as if they had shipped from e.g. the USA.
The ONLY solution to this problem and let's be honest only fair to stackers in the UK compared to our EU colleagues is to convince our main UK bullion and coin dealers to also work the differential VAT scheme used across the Channel.
If a mom & pop operation can implement differential VAT why not Chards, Atkinsons, BullionbyPost and others ?????
I am sure there will be endless excuses of being overly complicated but can someone in business please explain in lay-terms the problems.
A UK dealer adopting the methods used by CoinInvest/ STG and GS.be can corner the market in the UK if they wanted to.
My question goes directly to CoinInvest / STG who already do this but not in the UK - what is stopping you ??
Does the computer say NO ?

Come on guys and gals ... stop moaning about Brexit and kicking the government because we cannot import our silver coins at low or zero VAT.
Whilst a member of the EU goods can move freely between borders without paying additional tax.
This has now ended so that privilege has finished.
What you need to understand is that the low VAT charged has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH BREXIT.
Take a look at the map here showing the standard rates of VAT across the EU.
Most countries are at 20% and some higher.
Germany is one of the lowest at 19% and Finland is the highest at 24%
THESE ARE THE RATES OF VAT charged on most goods.
Estonia is the exception at 0% but although some stackers have purchased from the European Mint or through a group buy, many will have purchased ( and I include myself ) from GS.be, CoinInvest / STG and many of the better known German coin sellers.
THESE SELLERS WERE OPERATING A SCHEME CALLED DIFFERENTIAL VAT
This was a loophole in the VAT system where a seller could charge VAT on their margin rather than the intrinsic full value of the item.
This is entirely legal and is why GS.be and others can sell at such low prices meaning not charging the 20% or thereabouts VAT.
Since we have exited the EU all goods arriving from the EU are no longer "free movement" so are subject to full VAT as if they had shipped from e.g. the USA.
The ONLY solution to this problem and let's be honest only fair to stackers in the UK compared to our EU colleagues is to convince our main UK bullion and coin dealers to also work the differential VAT scheme used across the Channel.
If a mom & pop operation can implement differential VAT why not Chards, Atkinsons, BullionbyPost and others ?????
I am sure there will be endless excuses of being overly complicated but can someone in business please explain in lay-terms the problems.
A UK dealer adopting the methods used by CoinInvest/ STG and GS.be can corner the market in the UK if they wanted to.
My question goes directly to CoinInvest / STG who already do this but not in the UK - what is stopping you ??
Does the computer say NO ?

Come on guys and gals ... stop moaning about Brexit and kicking the government because we cannot import our silver coins at low or zero VAT.
Whilst a member of the EU goods can move freely between borders without paying additional tax.
This has now ended so that privilege has finished.
What you need to understand is that the low VAT charged has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH BREXIT.
Take a look at the map here showing the standard rates of VAT across the EU.
Most countries are at 20% and some higher.
Germany is one of the lowest at 19% and Finland is the highest at 24%
THESE ARE THE RATES OF VAT charged on most goods.
Estonia is the exception at 0% but although some stackers have purchased from the European Mint or through a group buy, many will have purchased ( and I include myself ) from GS.be, CoinInvest / STG and many of the better known German coin sellers.
THESE SELLERS WERE OPERATING A SCHEME CALLED DIFFERENTIAL VAT
This was a loophole in the VAT system where a seller could charge VAT on their margin rather than the intrinsic full value of the item.
This is entirely legal and is why GS.be and others can sell at such low prices meaning not charging the 20% or thereabouts VAT.
Since we have exited the EU all goods arriving from the EU are no longer "free movement" so are subject to full VAT as if they had shipped from e.g. the USA.
The ONLY solution to this problem and let's be honest only fair to stackers in the UK compared to our EU colleagues is to convince our main UK bullion and coin dealers to also work the differential VAT scheme used across the Channel.
If a mom & pop operation can implement differential VAT why not Chards, Atkinsons, BullionbyPost and others ?????
I am sure there will be endless excuses of being overly complicated but can someone in business please explain in lay-terms the problems.
A UK dealer adopting the methods used by CoinInvest/ STG and GS.be can corner the market in the UK if they wanted to.
My question goes directly to CoinInvest / STG who already do this but not in the UK - what is stopping you ??
Does the computer say NO ?

Lots of material being added causing even more confusion.
My own experience of purchasing silver coins from Australia and the USA goes as follows -
The seller ships your package with a customs declaration sticker attached or maybe a commercial invoice inside a clear wallet.
This will state e.g. Qty 25 silver coins, weight 800g, value USD$ 900 ( or maybe AUS$ 1300 ), commodity code 71.18.10.00.10
Also declared is cost of shipping say $55
When the package arrives in the UK the Royal Mail will charge a fixed fee of £8 but others like UPS, DHL, FedEx etc are likely to charge more, double to triple this amount.
If the shipper has only paid shipping to the UK port of entry and not a final destination ( i.e. door to door service costing only a fraction more ) there will be additional hefty charges - broker fee, clearance fee, deferment fee, courier from port  / airport to final destination which can be painful shock. Door to door delivery is critical !!

The Royal Mail / courier will electronically clear customs - no duty to pay but 20% VAT on the TOTAL invoice including the shipping cost.
You will receive a notice that your package is ready to be delivered once you have paid the VAT plus fees.
Having left the EU, goods arriving from the EU will most likely be treated exactly the same way as if the coins had been sent from Australia or the USA.
 

Come on guys and gals ... stop moaning about Brexit and kicking the government because we cannot import our silver coins at low or zero VAT.
Whilst a member of the EU goods can move freely between borders without paying additional tax.
This has now ended so that privilege has finished.
What you need to understand is that the low VAT charged has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH BREXIT.
Take a look at the map here showing the standard rates of VAT across the EU.
Most countries are at 20% and some higher.
Germany is one of the lowest at 19% and Finland is the highest at 24%
THESE ARE THE RATES OF VAT charged on most goods.
Estonia is the exception at 0% but although some stackers have purchased from the European Mint or through a group buy, many will have purchased ( and I include myself ) from GS.be, CoinInvest / STG and many of the better known German coin sellers.
THESE SELLERS WERE OPERATING A SCHEME CALLED DIFFERENTIAL VAT
This was a loophole in the VAT system where a seller could charge VAT on their margin rather than the intrinsic full value of the item.
This is entirely legal and is why GS.be and others can sell at such low prices meaning not charging the 20% or thereabouts VAT.
Since we have exited the EU all goods arriving from the EU are no longer "free movement" so are subject to full VAT as if they had shipped from e.g. the USA.
The ONLY solution to this problem and let's be honest only fair to stackers in the UK compared to our EU colleagues is to convince our main UK bullion and coin dealers to also work the differential VAT scheme used across the Channel.
If a mom & pop operation can implement differential VAT why not Chards, Atkinsons, BullionbyPost and others ?????
I am sure there will be endless excuses of being overly complicated but can someone in business please explain in lay-terms the problems.
A UK dealer adopting the methods used by CoinInvest/ STG and GS.be can corner the market in the UK if they wanted to.
My question goes directly to CoinInvest / STG who already do this but not in the UK - what is stopping you ??
Does the computer say NO ?

Come on guys and gals ... stop moaning about Brexit and kicking the government because we cannot import our silver coins at low or zero VAT.
Whilst a member of the EU goods can move freely between borders without paying additional tax.
This has now ended so that privilege has finished.
What you need to understand is that the low VAT charged has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH BREXIT.
Take a look at the map here showing the standard rates of VAT across the EU.
Most countries are at 20% and some higher.
Germany is one of the lowest at 19% and Finland is the highest at 24%
THESE ARE THE RATES OF VAT charged on most goods.
Estonia is the exception at 0% but although some stackers have purchased from the European Mint or through a group buy, many will have purchased ( and I include myself ) from GS.be, CoinInvest / STG and many of the better known German coin sellers.
THESE SELLERS WERE OPERATING A SCHEME CALLED DIFFERENTIAL VAT
This was a loophole in the VAT system where a seller could charge VAT on their margin rather than the intrinsic full value of the item.
This is entirely legal and is why GS.be and others can sell at such low prices meaning not charging the 20% or thereabouts VAT.
Since we have exited the EU all goods arriving from the EU are no longer "free movement" so are subject to full VAT as if they had shipped from e.g. the USA.
The ONLY solution to this problem and let's be honest only fair to stackers in the UK compared to our EU colleagues is to convince our main UK bullion and coin dealers to also work the differential VAT scheme used across the Channel.
If a mom & pop operation can implement differential VAT why not Chards, Atkinsons, BullionbyPost and others ?????
I am sure there will be endless excuses of being overly complicated but can someone in business please explain in lay-terms the problems.
A UK dealer adopting the methods used by CoinInvest/ STG and GS.be can corner the market in the UK if they wanted to.
My question goes directly to CoinInvest / STG who already do this but not in the UK - what is stopping you ??
Does the computer say NO ?

Yes - defects as these bullion coins are produced like metal washers.
You are fortunate that there aren't scuffs, scratches, pits, reeded dings and milk spots as well.

Are you sure about this ?
My reading seems to suggest that where an on-line business ships goods to the UK below and up to £135 the SELLER must add 20% UK Vat payable by the customer.
Above this number the goods are shipped VAT free then the VAT is charged at the border.
Also take into account the high costs of shipping a few coins at a time.
 

Are you sure about this ?
My reading seems to suggest that where an on-line business ships goods to the UK below and up to £135 the SELLER must add 20% UK Vat payable by the customer.
Above this number the goods are shipped VAT free then the VAT is charged at the border.
Also take into account the high costs of shipping a few coins at a time.
 

You are 100% right Pete @silverscotty have a read of the link I sent you: 
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021

Are you sure about this ?
My reading seems to suggest that where an on-line business ships goods to the UK below and up to £135 the SELLER must add 20% UK Vat payable by the customer.
Above this number the goods are shipped VAT free then the VAT is charged at the border.
Also take into account the high costs of shipping a few coins at a time.
 

I have used the code 97.05.00.020 to get silver coins imported at the reduced VAT rate of 5% shipped from the USA and Australia.
I had to pay 20% initially then file a claim with the Border Force ( www.hmrc.gov.uk ) based in Coventry CV3 4HX who fairly quickly refunded the difference.
It applies to numismatic and collectible coins so not worth trying on regular bullion, but if a bullion coin is a bit special and priced well above the cheap coins, there should not be any problem but you need to provide enough evidence to back up your claim.
 

Just for fun I checked return flights from Gatwick to Tallinn with EasyJet.
Return flight was less than £100 but there were only flights Thursdays and Sundays so you need to stay a few nights in a hotel.
Such a holiday would cost around £360 plus your meals etc.
In order to recover £360 in VAT savings ( at 20% ) that means you need to buy a minimum of £1800 of silver.
My initial thought was how about buying 6 ounces of platinum coins and just carrying them in your trouser pocket, mixed with loose change and when you pass through the metal scanners just place all your coins in a small plastic bag. The authorities are looking for drugs, weapons and explosives.
I reckon it would be easier to Eurostar or Ferry to the Continent on an off-peak day package.
 

I have used the code 97.05.00.020 to get silver coins imported at the reduced VAT rate of 5% shipped from the USA and Australia.
I had to pay 20% initially then file a claim with the Border Force ( www.hmrc.gov.uk ) based in Coventry CV3 4HX who fairly quickly refunded the difference.
It applies to numismatic and collectible coins so not worth trying on regular bullion, but if a bullion coin is a bit special and priced well above the cheap coins, there should not be any problem but you need to provide enough evidence to back up your claim.
 

I have used the code 97.05.00.020 to get silver coins imported at the reduced VAT rate of 5% shipped from the USA and Australia.
I had to pay 20% initially then file a claim with the Border Force ( www.hmrc.gov.uk ) based in Coventry CV3 4HX who fairly quickly refunded the difference.
It applies to numismatic and collectible coins so not worth trying on regular bullion, but if a bullion coin is a bit special and priced well above the cheap coins, there should not be any problem but you need to provide enough evidence to back up your claim.
 

I have used the code 97.05.00.020 to get silver coins imported at the reduced VAT rate of 5% shipped from the USA and Australia.
I had to pay 20% initially then file a claim with the Border Force ( www.hmrc.gov.uk ) based in Coventry CV3 4HX who fairly quickly refunded the difference.
It applies to numismatic and collectible coins so not worth trying on regular bullion, but if a bullion coin is a bit special and priced well above the cheap coins, there should not be any problem but you need to provide enough evidence to back up your claim.
 

Yes - defects as these bullion coins are produced like metal washers.
You are fortunate that there aren't scuffs, scratches, pits, reeded dings and milk spots as well.

Yes - defects as these bullion coins are produced like metal washers.
You are fortunate that there aren't scuffs, scratches, pits, reeded dings and milk spots as well.

Lots of material being added causing even more confusion.
My own experience of purchasing silver coins from Australia and the USA goes as follows -
The seller ships your package with a customs declaration sticker attached or maybe a commercial invoice inside a clear wallet.
This will state e.g. Qty 25 silver coins, weight 800g, value USD$ 900 ( or maybe AUS$ 1300 ), commodity code 71.18.10.00.10
Also declared is cost of shipping say $55
When the package arrives in the UK the Royal Mail will charge a fixed fee of £8 but others like UPS, DHL, FedEx etc are likely to charge more, double to triple this amount.
If the shipper has only paid shipping to the UK port of entry and not a final destination ( i.e. door to door service costing only a fraction more ) there will be additional hefty charges - broker fee, clearance fee, deferment fee, courier from port  / airport to final destination which can be painful shock. Door to door delivery is critical !!

The Royal Mail / courier will electronically clear customs - no duty to pay but 20% VAT on the TOTAL invoice including the shipping cost.
You will receive a notice that your package is ready to be delivered once you have paid the VAT plus fees.
Having left the EU, goods arriving from the EU will most likely be treated exactly the same way as if the coins had been sent from Australia or the USA.
 

Another great video @BackyardBullion - keep it going !!
I am not sure you are entirely correct with your main topic relating to VAT.
In Germany for example, the last time I checked, which was several years ago, VAT on silver coins was increased from 7% to 19% and silver bars were maybe 15-17% before rising to 19%. It was always less expensive per ounce buying minted coins and coin-bars compared to a poured brick which seems the wrong way round.
The fact that we have been able to buy cheaper has little to due with VAT rates ( Estonia excepted ) but that the dealers used a workaround of applying differential VAT.
Our UK dealers could have followed suit and kept their tills ringing whilst retaining business but choose not to.
I used to buy from CoinInvest and STG up until some German sellers applied differential VAT.
Then GS.be appeared on the scene and much later both CoinInvest and STG caught on no doubt seeing business crash and then adopted the differential VAT on some coins.
I haven't researched differential VAT, but it cannot be rocket science looking at the various EU dealers all operating this scheme, some of which are relatively small players.
The only solution is to encourage Atkinsons, Chards etc to adopt the differential VAT scheme but I have no knowledge of what's involved but the fact that all our primary EU suppliers have succeeded .... say no more.
I sympathise with everything you say, as a small business, about rising costs of raw materials but I somehow doubt the government will be interested and if you write to the trade secretary I am certain you will receive a nice letter in return with padded out boilerplate BS but worded politely.

We always treat the Channel Isles as part of the UK but they are outside the EU.
Anything being shipped from the Channel Isles below a value ( around £12 I think ?? ) is subject to VAT and packages have always had to have a customs declaration, or if postage paid electronically a declaration filed on-line. So now that the transition period is ending, all goods arriving from the EU will be subject to VAT but not duty or quotas as that's in the agreement. Buying from GS.be or the European Mint for example will be invoiced VAT free but subject to UK VAT on arrival. Freedom of movement of goods has come to an end.

Metal value rather than face value is the rule of thumb

Any goods entering the UK from 1st January 2021 onwards will have VAT applied to them regardless of the approval of this deal or not. 
It is very unlikely that group purchases from Europe will be saving people enough money to warrant even doing them. 
Yes, you might be able to save £1 - £2 per coin (because UK dealers are still uncompetitive compared to EU sellers) but the added costs of shipping, VAT and postage costs would negate those savings. 
Not to mention I think there will be a greatly reduced appetite for people to even want to buy silver at close to 40% over spot price for the foreseeable future. Certainly when you compare to buying Gold at 3% over spot - makes very little sense to buy silver at all. 
Nationality will make no difference at all.