bean182

Top 10 Largest Gold Reserves (in tons)
United States — 8,133 Germany — 3,359 James32 — 2,452 France — 2,436 Russia — 2,299 China — 1,948 Switzerland — 1,040 Japan — 846 India — 754 Netherlands — 612

I don’t want to go in to too much detail regarding my supplier until I’ve had chance to check the coins again myself and spoken to them about it but they are a shop that buy from the public and test coins when purchasing. 
As I said I would prefer to deal with this once all of the relevant information is known and without damaging anyone’s reputation publicly. Having refunded the buyer I had hoped that would be the end of the matter and I could take it up with my supplier myself in private but as this thread was posted suggesting the coins had been sold incorrectly I felt I needed to at least comment to defend myself to a certain extent. 

As the seller of these coins I am happy to respond.
The coins were sold to me by a fairly big and very experienced gold dealer where they would have been XRF tested prior to my purchase. I am not willing to name the dealer until I have carried out further tests and spoken to them directly as I don't think that would be fair. That said I think many people on this forum would know the name.
Two of the coins came with certificates and while these don't really prove anything it does at least state what the coins are supposed to be and everything else matches up as expected. The buyer was not happy with the coins he received and asked to return them, as a gesture of goodwill I accepted the return but until I receive them back and can get them tested more thoroughly I am still of the opinion that they are 22ct. Whilst I understand the Sigma isn't completely fool proof, as stated earlier in the thread specific gravity tests can also be misread and that appears to be the only test that has been done on these coins. There is also mention of a pawnbroker looking at the coins but no testing procedures were carried out at all beyond looking at the coins with a magnifying glass.
So far we have three coins as follows:
Five Laurels (40g) - Passed both the Sigma and specific gravity tests, not sure what the pawnbroker made of it but assume all is well as nothing mentioned
Platinum Jubilee (16g) - Passed Sigma test, had COA stating details of the coin and came from the same lot as the Five Laurels so I have no reason to doubt it other than the buyer's own failed SG test. Also no comment from the pawnbroker
Brexit Coin (8g) - Passed Sigma test, buyer/pawnbroker claims 9ct inscription on the coin which if true both I and the very experienced dealer I bought from have missed. If that is the case then of course I apologise but I would like to see this for myself.
As I understood the workings of the Sigma machine there are different 22ct settings that will apply to the different alloys that may be used which is why they have different settings for Krugerrands, Britannias etc. Happy to be educated on this if I am wrong of course, I am quite new to the Sigma.
Regarding the postage costs, the buyer agreed that he would cover the return postage. I wasn't aware that he was unhappy with this arrangement but as he has now asked me to cover it I will do so. I had planned to refund postage anyway should any of the coins prove to be anything less that what I sold them as. My personal opinion is still that they are 22ct gold and I wouldn't sell any coin if I wasn't confident of the purity. I am of course willing to be proved wrong though and will update the thread if that proves to be the case.
Without meaning any offence at all, I don't think the buyer was ever 100% happy with the purchase even prior to receiving the coins and I thought I was being quite generous in accepting a return which many sellers/dealers wouldn't do.

2022 Niue - Disney - Goofy - 90th Anniversary


2022 Niue - Roswell Incident - 75 Years
 


 
2022 Niue - Australia's Iconic - Koala


2022 Niue - DC Comics  Bullion Collection - The Flash


 
2022  Niue - Macro insect  - Praying Mantis  - Antique Finish Color


2022 Canada - Maple Leaf -  Ultra High Relief Reverse Proof

2022 Tuvalu - The Simpsons - Bart Simpson

2022 Australia - Double Sovereign - High Relief Piedfort
Mintage 300
 

2022 Niue - Star Wars - The Bad Batch - Hunter

2022 Austria - The Uncharted Universe - The Black Hole
 
 


2022 New Zealand - Game of Thrones - Targaryen Sigil  Medallion

2022 Qatar - FIFA World Cup Trophy


2022 Tokelau - Vivat Humanitas
 




2022 RAM - Australia Zoo - African Elephant / Sumatran Elephant
 


2022 Canada - Canadian Ghost Ship


 
 

Hahaha, thanks

American eagles?

Just to add as well, sellers should always be organised and take a photo of the parcel and keep every postage receipt for at least 6 months in case of an issue arising. 

Actually under UK distance selling laws it is the seller's responsibility to get the package to the buyer. 
The peer to peer PM community is at risk of becoming complacent on the issue and assume that it is a universal understanding that the buyer assumes responsibility by choosing whatever service they are comfortable with. In practice it rarely happens that the buyer explicitly states they are taking the risk. 
Just because it is a common approach in this community to take the unorthodox approach of buyer's risk, not all buyer's and sellers agree with it, and the specific terms are not often stated, so the risk of making assumptions during a transaction is that it anything goes wrong, resolving it will become fraught. 
Sellers need to be aware that if they choose to send an item uninsured which doesn't arrive or is damaged, they will legally be required to reimburse the buyer unless prior written agreement was made to the contrary. I doubt it would be sufficient simply to pop a lazy disclaimer in the listing saying "buyer's choice of post". The buyer would specifically have to say that they agree that there will be no compensation if the package were to go missing. Any sensible buyer would also be sensible to accept those terms only on condition that the seller provides proof of posting in the form of a photo of the receipt which shows the weight of the parcel, the address sent to, the tracking number and the date. 
The written contract between the buyer and seller then becomes quite protracted and this becomes impractical to do each time for a £30 package. 
I have personally got round this problem with three approaches.
The first is due diligence. If a seller has a good reputation and I've dealt with them before I will trust they will provide me with their typical service. Without trust and care this whole business quickly crumbles. If an item is of high value and I want it sent 1st signed for I will make sure terms are clear. 
The second is a mathematical understanding that paying for special delivery is only worth for sending high value items. If one in 500 packages goes missing by 1st signed for (a conservative estimate based on my data going back two years), then by saving £4 per package in postage 500 times you are in theory saving against the loss of a £2000 item going missing. Obviously that's quite extreme an example and I would never entrust an item of that value to SF as that loss would be emotionally hard to take and that risk is not factored in mathematically. Each person can instead consider their own attitude to loss and risk and think how much would I be comfortable to lose? Under that value, go 1st signed for. Over, go SD.
The third is through a business insurance which I have purchased, which covers all items I send up to £5k as long as I send at least signed for/tracked. I hope never to have to use it but it means i have that back up and can confidently post knowing i can reimburse the buyer and claim on insurance if tracking shows the item wasn't delivered after a certain time (i now set this as a month as one package i sent arrived a month after!) It is worth it for the number of items I post and I expect many people selling any moderate volume of bullion would be well advised to take out such insurance for peace of mind and the postage savings made which will offset the cost within a couple of months. The insurance also covers the bullion itself when in storage or on your person when out. 
I thought I would add some detail to the topic as it is a really important issue so that buyers and sellers can adequately inform and protect themselves. There are misunderstandings in the community and this can and does lead to big problems, losses and fall outs which nobody wants. 

Bienvenido al foro!
You can be lost in here. There is a lot of valuable information. But the best is the community spirit. 

Hi to all!
Friend who's been collecting for years got me hooked on the shiny rocks a few months ago. He mentioned this forum, and must say he really undersold it, this looks amazing.
Anyways, just wanted to say hi from Spain!

Hi there again,
At a closer look, that 100 gr. bars seem they are all number 084. If that is the case, I offer you 473£ for the five + postage. I would like to have a better offer but today that 100 gr. bars were sold at 86£ each by two different members. I am putting 10% on top of that.
I would like to know the numbers on the 1 oz bars before making an offer.

Hi there,
It is a shame that you need to sell this. However, if that is your end wish, I would put up a fair offer depending on the forum bars numbers.

Hi there again,
At a closer look, that 100 gr. bars seem they are all number 084. If that is the case, I offer you 473£ for the five + postage. I would like to have a better offer but today that 100 gr. bars were sold at 86£ each by two different members. I am putting 10% on top of that.
I would like to know the numbers on the 1 oz bars before making an offer.

Hi there again,
At a closer look, that 100 gr. bars seem they are all number 084. If that is the case, I offer you 473£ for the five + postage. I would like to have a better offer but today that 100 gr. bars were sold at 86£ each by two different members. I am putting 10% on top of that.
I would like to know the numbers on the 1 oz bars before making an offer.

Hi there,
It is a shame that you need to sell this. However, if that is your end wish, I would put up a fair offer depending on the forum bars numbers.

There are, but they all started somewhere. There's absolutely no 'my stack's bigger than yours' on here. We all have different objectives, motivations and finances. Enjoy what you can within the limits of what you can afford.

Not pros at all, simply have more time in the game.
Best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, next Best time is today...I guarantee a year from now you will be reading a similar comment to yours and thinking "not so long ago I was there"

Thats good to know! I wasnt sure whether to mention what i had or not as there seems to be some real pros of the game on here..

Welcome to the forum!
You won't get bored here! 😉
 

Welcome!

Hi and welcome from Sweden!

Welcome to the moreish world of PMs, the advice above from @bean182 is worth its weight in gold!

Welcome to the Forum!
As someone also new here but older, I recommend you take it easy. You have a lot of time ahead to see gold and silver up and down, up and down...