Going through my Grandad's old collection

[EvilLandlord]

33 minutes ago, Stuntman said:

@EvilLandlord This is worth confirming - the coin in the bottom left of the 1887 set, is this a gold coin (half sov) or a silver coin (sixpence).  If gold, worth at least £250.  If silver, £20-30 perhaps!

@Stuntman I've just taken out the case and it seems exactly like the coin in the top middle of the case in the photgraph. Compared them side by side. If that's the case then what am I missing in this set? I feel the need to complete it! Also, how am I to know which of these two coins was originally in the case? They both seem to be in extremely good condition. 

[Stuntman]

The good news is that you almost certainly have two half-sovereigns (22ct gold coins).

The set is missing a silver sixpence.

As you may know, there are two main types of 1887 Jubilee Head sixpence.  One has a shield design on the reverse (this is called the Withdrawn Type) and the other one has a wreath on the reverse with the words 'Six Pence' inside the wreath.  This was issued later in the same year, because people were gilding the original sixpence and trying to pass it off as a Jubilee Head half sovereign coin (which also has a shield on the reverse, albeit of a different design).

Regarding the 1887 Jubilee Head half sovereign coins, these were minted at the London, Melbourne and Sydney mints.  So it's possible that your two gold coins may be from different mints. 

The Melbourne and Sydney mint coins have an M or an S underneath the bottom of the shield on the reverse.  The London mint coins have no such mark.

So it's worth checking exactly what you have!

[Stuntman]

Here's an example of an 1887 'Wreath' sixpence.  I also have an example of the Withdrawn type, but don't have a photo of that coin.  But here's an 1887 shilling with the same design - you already have one of these in your set:

 

[Stuntman]

There's no way of knowing which of the two half sovs was originally in the case.  I agree with @Britannia47 and others that the set has actually been assembled over time, rather than it being an original set as sold by the Royal Mint at the time.

The 'correct' coin would be a London mint coin (that is, without a mint mark below the shield on the reverse).  So if one of the coins does have a mint mark, that is the odd one out (as it were).

In similar vein, the 'correct' sixpence for this set would be the Withdrawn Type (that is, the one with the shield on the reverse, not the wreath).

You have some lovely coins there, regardless 🙂

[EvilLandlord]

5 minutes ago, Stuntman said:

There's no way of knowing which of the two half sovs was originally in the case.  I agree with @Britannia47 and others that the set has actually been assembled over time, rather than it being an original set as sold by the Royal Mint at the time.

The 'correct' coin would be a London mint coin (that is, without a mint mark below the shield on the reverse).  So if one of the coins does have a mint mark, that is the odd one out (as it were).

In similar vein, the 'correct' sixpence for this set would be the Withdrawn Type (that is, the one with the shield on the reverse, not the wreath).

You have some lovely coins there, regardless 🙂

Here is a close up (which took far too many attempts and made me realise I need a better camera to take proper close ups of small coins  -  any recommendations?) of both of the small gold coins.

[Stuntman]

Nice photos.  Both of them are London mint coins, both look in very good condition with no obvious signs of cleaning.

If you have time, post up photos of the obverses too!

You might choose to sell one of them (whichever is marginally the worse in your opinion), buy a really nicely-toned 1887 sixpence of the withdrawn type, and then spend the net proceeds (£200 or so) on something that your Grandad would approve of 🙂

[EvilLandlord]

4 minutes ago, Stuntman said:

Nice photos.  Both of them are London mint coins, both look in very good condition with no obvious signs of cleaning.

If you have time, post up photos of the obverses too!

You might choose to sell one of them (whichever is marginally the worse in your opinion), buy a really nicely-toned 1887 sixpence of the withdrawn type, and then spend the net proceeds (£200 or so) on something that your Grandad would approve of 🙂

Sounds like I have my first mission! 

Here are the other sides (or obverses as I have just learned)!

 

[EvilLandlord]

I found this link which seems to have the same case too.. https://mjhughescoins.com/1887-specimen-gold-and-silver-coin-set/

There are a number of these cases in different shapes for different sets in the same maroon colour with the cross on the front of the box as well when browsing online for these 1887 sets of different types. 

[EvilLandlord]

digging a bit deeper when googling the £5 coin there seems to be 10 known coins that don't have the BP mark at the lower right of St George. I can't see one on this either which has me a bit worried that it's a fake, or worth a blooming fortune!

https://www.sovr.co.uk/products/victoria-1887-pattern-five-pounds-no-bp-initials-pf61-cameo-hi29141

EDIT: Actually on much closer inspection there are two small dots visible. Pretty sure that'll be the BP. As well as a camera with a decent macro lens it also appears I need to get myself a magnifying glass!

Any other items you recommend purchasing for my collecting and stacking journey ahead of me? I've seen videos on devices that test the content and size of coins to verify them as authentic, but they seem quite pricey and may not apply to me at the level I'm at at the moment.. 

 

Also wondering what the best way to store and catalogue a collection is, what materials to avoid using that may react with them etc. Is there a FAQ up anywhere?

 

 

Edited April 22 by EvilLandlord

[westminstrel]

5 hours ago, Stuntman said:

It appears that the 1971 receipt is just for the £2 coin, rather than the full set.  Even so, £60 for 0.47 troy oz of numismatic gold seems like a steal in today's money!

Yes you are right. 🙂

[Britannia47]

Here’s my 1887 silver set, taken out of similar ‘Victoria Jubilee Specimen Set’ box, with the addition of an 1887 Sovereign.

Those were the days as a numismatic collector (not any more!) gradually filling up the box - that was the enjoyment, especially when complete. 🙂 @EvilLandlord

Photo is a size comparison - I’m sure you can identify them all, even the ‘Barmaids Ruin’?……

[Petra]

19 hours ago, EvilLandlord said:

Also possibly of interest are a couple of newspaper clippings he had.
Here's one that's a snapshot of the time

 

 

🤔1974 …. You were doing ok if you could sped that on coins🤔

[Petra]

11 hours ago, Stuntman said:

It appears that the 1971 receipt is just for the £2 coin, rather than the full set.  Even so, £60 for 0.47 troy oz of numismatic gold seems like a steal in today's money!

Not really a steal, todays money irrelevant …. nice to be in a position to spend that on one coin back then. Business was obviously good.

[EvilLandlord]

3 hours ago, Britannia47 said:

Here’s my 1887 silver set, taken out of similar ‘Victoria Jubilee Specimen Set’ box, with the addition of an 1887 Sovereign.

Those were the days as a numismatic collector (not any more!) gradually filling up the box - that was the enjoyment, especially when complete. 🙂 @EvilLandlord

Photo is a size comparison - I’m sure you can identify them all, even the ‘Barmaids Ruin’?……

Fantastic! They look great. I'm still learning what's what. Looked up the Barmaid's Ruin. Very interesting!

 

[pricha]

What's interesting is the collection is a bit haphazard for someone who collected over the years. Is this the whole collection? Have you searched your grandfathers house throughly?  Many people ( on here ) have plenty of hiding places for rare coins. 

[EvilLandlord]

1 hour ago, pricha said:

What's interesting is the collection is a bit haphazard for someone who collected over the years. Is this the whole collection? Have you searched your grandfathers house throughly?  Many people ( on here ) have plenty of hiding places for rare coins. 

Hi! 

My grandad lost his wife to illness in about 1967/68 and I think he took up this hobby to keep his mind busy and to keep my dad and his sister busy (they were in their teens at the time) sorting through coins he brought back from the bank and sorting and date ordering them. I think the collecting side of it all kicked in a bit later and he occasionally ordered coins or visited jewellers on his travels and picked up some interesting coins from then on. It's mainly silver and lots and lots of "old money" (I've put his typed sheets of these below with a snapshot from some point in time, I've yet to work out if he collected more after this point and these don;t seem to list his larger silver coins) with some silver dollars and some peculiar medallions and collectible ones that I'm still trying to identify and check out. I'll certainly get photos of those up on the silver forum when I get chance to photograph them all! any input and advice is greatly appreciated. I have tubs here full of old pennies and all sorts of other things. It's quite a daunting task but I feel quite lucky to be able to enjoy doing it knowing that he went through all these at some point too

 

He made a big deal of handing these over to me in one large collection so I doubt he had any stashed away anywhere. He seemed keen to pass the interest on at the time, eitehr to me or my children one day.

Edited April 23 by EvilLandlord

[pricha]

Sounds a collector not a secret gold stacker.. the sixpence list looks interesting.  Not sure what happened to the shilling collection , as it appears he stopped after 3 coins. ? Condition is everything with old coins. If they are bright and shiny that's not necessarily a good thing as they might have been harshly cleaned , a no no for collector's generally speaking. 

[EvilLandlord]

1 minute ago, pricha said:

Sounds a collector not a secret gold stacker.. the sixpence list looks interesting.  Not sure what happened to the shilling collection , as it appears he stopped after 3 coins. ? Condition is everything with old coins. If they are bright and shiny that's not necessarily a good thing as they might have been harshly cleaned , a no no for collector's generally speaking. 

So far I have resisted the urge! Hopefully he did as well

This is the general condition of these smaller coins and the scale of the task ahead of me! There are a few of these cases as well as some tins full of pennies and other stuff.. Just an overhead snapshot for ease now sorry. When I start getting my head around what is here I'll post more info in the silver forum

 

[Stuntman]

I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that although the silver and bronze predecimal coins pictured above form a fascinating collection, I don't think they amount to a lot of value above scrap silver.  But that's not really the point, it's a journey through time and just think of all the people who will have used those coins to buy various things over the decades and centuries.

Definitely post up what dates you have on the pennies and other bronze.  But use those two websites that I linked to earlier, that will give you an idea if you have anything significant.

Your toned 1887 silver coins in the cased set are very nice though and perhaps worth between £200 and £300 between them 🙂

[EvilLandlord]

2 hours ago, Stuntman said:

I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that although the silver and bronze predecimal coins pictured above form a fascinating collection, I don't think they amount to a lot of value above scrap silver.  But that's not really the point, it's a journey through time and just think of all the people who will have used those coins to buy various things over the decades and centuries.

Definitely post up what dates you have on the pennies and other bronze.  But use those two websites that I linked to earlier, that will give you an idea if you have anything significant.

Your toned 1887 silver coins in the cased set are very nice though and perhaps worth between £200 and £300 between them 🙂

Happy to take any and all opinions and thoughts on the collection that he had! I imagined as much regarding these predecimal coins and I assume he knew too, but just enjoyed the experience. As I mentioned above I'll probably keep the best one of each example and then try and fill the gaps over time as sort of a side quest in his memory while I search around and see what tickles my interest!

Currently looking at what app/program to use to catalogue them so I hopefully won't have to do the exercise twice! Any recommendations on that front are welcomed too.

I do wonder what history they have seen. Plenty has been going on while these little chaps have been going from pocket to pocket!

Once I have sorted the wheat from the chaff I'll report back!

[EvilLandlord]

5 hours ago, pricha said:

Sounds a collector not a secret gold stacker.. the sixpence list looks interesting.  Not sure what happened to the shilling collection , as it appears he stopped after 3 coins. ? Condition is everything with old coins. If they are bright and shiny that's not necessarily a good thing as they might have been harshly cleaned , a no no for collector's generally speaking. 

I think he listed the shillings he has and then crossed some off for some reason, either sold, lost or listed in error perhaps.

EDIT - actually you're quite right.. It says at the top "Shillings needed" I missed that as the rest are lists that he has.

Edited April 23 by EvilLandlord

[pricha]

39 minutes ago, EvilLandlord said:

I think he listed the shillings he has and then crossed some off for some reason, either sold, lost or listed in error perhaps.

EDIT - actually you're quite right.. It says at the top "Shillings needed" I missed that as the rest are lists that he has.

There could be some gems in there. The 1905 shilling for example is well sought after. If near Uncirculated condition could be worth £1000 plus.  Not all coins are equal.  

[BullionBuyerUK]

Great looking collection.

Although my grandad passed away 21 years ago, my mum only gave me his coin collection over the Christmas period, there was a few gold coins we knew about, but mainly it was all pre decimal stuff.

I found these web sites quite useful, https://www.predecimal.com/key_dates

https://www.allcoinvalues.com/index.html

Turns out he had a few rarer coins, but they were so worn they wouldn't be worth a great deal

[EvilLandlord]

57 minutes ago, BullionBuyerUK said:

Great looking collection.

Although my grandad passed away 21 years ago, my mum only gave me his coin collection over the Christmas period, there was a few gold coins we knew about, but mainly it was all pre decimal stuff.

I found these web sites quite useful, https://www.predecimal.com/key_dates

https://www.allcoinvalues.com/index.html

Turns out he had a few rarer coins, but they were so worn they wouldn't be worth a great deal

Thank you! Glad you got to go through it all eventually. 

[EvilLandlord]

On 22/04/2024 at 13:12, EvilLandlord said:

Being a made up set might make sense as I found this too (the coin envelope was empty and I was hoping I hadn't lost it but it might be in here)! 

Wow.. I just googled this coin dealer to see if he was still knocking around but it looks like he moved on from coins! 

The man who became Britain's biggest crystal meth dealer - BBC News

Richard Lubbock of Lubbock Coins London (taxfreegold.co.uk)

 

Edited April 23 by EvilLandlord