The Lord's Prayer on a threepence

[pricha]

I picked up this some time back. Excuse me if I've already asked , I don't remember (age).  I was amazed by it. I assume it's genuine engraving  rather than fake using Modern technology.  Anyone have any ideas or has something similar? Thanks 

[HillWalkerDundee]

The coin comes up on Google. The British Museum has an example. It was minted 1837-1887. I don't know if that helps.

[TeaTime]

I went through a phase of collecting engraved coins and have the same one - there is a small but fervent market for them. They were hand engraved and are often referred to as love or sweetheart tokens.

The lords prayer appears to be a common theme. 

[Essendie]

2 minutes ago, TeaTime said:

I went through a phase of collecting engraved coins and have the same one - there is a small but fervent market for them. They were hand engraved and are often referred to as love or sweetheart tokens.

The lords prayer appears to be a common theme. 

If you don't mind me asking, what/where would you search to find those sorts of coins?
I've never seen or heard of them (which isn't saying much as I'm a newbie to this world, but still)

[TeaTime]

Try 'love token' on Ebay for some examples..... There's one listed now under 'Lords Prayer Victorian Silver Coin 3 Pence 1883'

[pricha]

14 minutes ago, HillWalkerDundee said:

The coin comes up on Google. The British Museum has an example. It was minted 1837-1887. I don't know if that helps.

looks like they are called re = engraved coins. Thanks

[pricha]

1 minute ago, TeaTime said:

Try 'love token' on Ebay for some examples..... There's one listed now under 'Lords Prayer Victorian Silver Coin 3 Pence 1883'

To my totally untrained eye it could be the same engraver. Capital letters look similar 

[pricha]

6 minutes ago, TeaTime said:

Try 'love token' on Ebay for some examples..... There's one listed now under 'Lords Prayer Victorian Silver Coin 3 Pence 1883'

This one says forgive debts not trespass as on the coin i have . 

[HillWalkerDundee]

In England, it is "forgive us our trespasses" and in Scotland it is "forgive us our debts". I don't know about Wales and Ireland (pre partition).

The British Museum entry indicated that it was a 50 year mintage , I assumed that the passage was stamped during minting.

Edited November 20, 2022 by HillWalkerDundee

[James32]

Just now, HillWalkerDundee said:

forgive us our trespasses

Same in Ireland 

[LawrenceChard]

4 hours ago, pricha said:

I picked up this some time back. Excuse me if I've already asked , I don't remember (age).  I was amazed by it. I assume it's genuine engraving  rather than fake using Modern technology.  Anyone have any ideas or has something similar? Thanks 

I have seen many coins with engraving on them. Some are simple "love tokens". Cramming lots of words onto a small coin must have been a popular challenge in the past, rather like the craze for fitting a large number of students into a mini.

Biblical texts such as the Lord's Prayer or Ten Commandments are probably relatively common. They may have been done a an apprentice challenge.

😎

[LawrenceChard]

1 hour ago, HillWalkerDundee said:

In England, it is "forgive us our trespasses" and in Scotland it is "forgive us our debts". I don't know about Wales and Ireland (pre partition).

The British Museum entry indicated that it was a 50 year mintage , I assumed that the passage was stamped during minting.

The text on these or similar was not stamped during minting, but would have been engraved later, by hand or machine.

Some hand engravers use pantographic "stencils", so many pieces may be engraved with similar fonts.

😎

[HillWalkerDundee]

Would the coin have been stamped on one side and the other left blank for the inscription?

[LawrenceChard]

35 minutes ago, HillWalkerDundee said:

Would the coin have been stamped on one side and the other left blank for the inscription?

No.

The Royal Mint made the coin in the normal way.

Later, some individual engraved it, grinding or filing the surface flat beforehand.

😎

 

[SidS]

"which" rather than "who art in heaven" - some local dialect, or simple mistake?

 

 

[Stuntman]

^^^ Just different text versions of the same prayer, I think.  When I was a schoolboy going to church decades ago, some bibles and or religious services used "which", and others used "who".

[HillWalkerDundee]

I have always used "which"

[SidS]

13 hours ago, HillWalkerDundee said:

I have always used "which"

Hmm I wasn't aware there were different versions. Everyday is a learning day as they say.

Im very far from an expert on the subject, having being raised by devout atheists. However, I've only ever done the Anglican and Catholic versions of the prayer in weddings/funerals etc. both of which used 'who'.

[HillWalkerDundee]

I think the difference between the two is whether you believe that God is in the form of a person (see And God made Adam) or an entity of some type which is far superior (wrong word) to that of flawed human beings. Also the use of the word "debt" is a more accurate translation but many use "trespass" to avoid the financial connotation.

[DrKarlMoneys]

Not seen these before, they look very impressive. The one in the ebay link posted above is £145, is that a fair price for them?

[TeaTime]

I paid £12 for mine - so somewhere between £12 & £145 seems to be the going rate !