Jump to content
  • The above Banner is a Sponsored Banner.

    Upgrade to Premium Membership to remove this Banner & All Google Ads. For full list of Premium Member benefits Click HERE.

  • Join The Silver Forum

    The Silver Forum is one of the largest and best loved silver and gold precious metals forums in the world, established since 2014. Join today for FREE! Browse the sponsor's topics (hidden to guests) for special deals and offers, check out the bargains in the members trade section and join in with our community reacting and commenting on topic posts. If you have any questions whatsoever about precious metals collecting and investing please join and start a topic and we will be here to help with our knowledge :) happy stacking/collecting. 21,000+ forum members and 1 million+ forum posts. For the latest up to date stats please see the stats in the right sidebar when browsing from desktop. Sign up for FREE to view the forum with reduced ads. 

Colour of proof sovereigns


RDHC

Recommended Posts

I don't have much to go on, and I'm probably either deceiving myself or have even worse eyesight than a recent optician's examination revealed, but, try as I may, my two  2019 proof sovereigns do seem to have lost most of the unattractive pink colour that afflicts modern sovereigns, for the last 22 years at least, as I am informed. They don't have the nice 'old gold' look of the Gillick sovereigns, of which I have one or two, let alone the yellow gold of a recent Britannia, but they appear to be quite acceptable, even allowing for the optical trick that can be performed by tilting the coin so as to achieve a cameo effect. Any one else noticed this or am I simply a lost and deluded soul? My comparison is with two bullion 2020 sovereigns. And if I am not entirely wrong, what could be the cause of the presumably apparent (i.e. not real) improvement when the copper content remains the same as for a bullion sovereign?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Put up some photos - a row sovereigns from different era and the people will have a better idea of what you are saying.

Disclaimer: Everything I post is for entertainment purposes only - it is not to be taken seriously. There is no intent to incite violence or hate of any kind, nor do I have any intent to incite any other crime or non-crime in any country in the world. It is not my intent to slander, harass or defame anyone dead or alive. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The topic of Sovereign colour has been covered many times. I agree that the colour of the 2022 proof sovereigns may appear to be different, but the alloy used is the same as for the 2022 bullion sovereign. When the RM were advertising  this coin, it appeared to have an overly 'pink' cast. In reality it seems quite acceptable in colour, but of course when you compare it with a 'Gillick' there is a marked difference. I hope the comparison photo illustrates that point...

 

 

IMG_3339 (2).JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Britannia47 said:

The topic of Sovereign colour has been covered many times. I agree that the colour of the 2022 proof sovereigns may appear to be different, but the alloy used is the same as for the 2022 bullion sovereign. When the RM were advertising  this coin, it appeared to have an overly 'pink' cast. In reality it seems quite acceptable in colour, but of course when you compare it with a 'Gillick' there is a marked difference. I hope the comparison photo illustrates that point...

 

 

IMG_3339 (2).JPG

Thank you for the photos. They show the cameo effect very well but not the diminished pinkness effect or illusion that intrigues me.. 

3 hours ago, jultorsk said:

Paging @LawrenceChard

😁

And perhaps the famous Semolina Pilchard and his camera.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, RDHC said:

Thank you for the photos. They show the cameo effect very well but not the diminished pinkness effect or illusion that intrigues me.. 

And perhaps the famous Semolina Pilchard and his camera.

I take your point, but I assure you that both coins are the same colour. The cameo effect is due to the infamous 'trick of the light' by allowing the camera/lense to flood the 'mirrored field' with shadow at certain angles. I will send another photo of the 2 Sovs. side by side....

As you can see the Proof actually looks slightly more pink than the Bullion. The shiny relief surface of the bullion is always going to look different from the frosting on the proof relief and therefore will interfere with the colour seen by the eye or camera lens. One of the best gold coins for colour is the 'Buffalo' It has a semi matte finish and reflects red and yellow, whilst absorbing violet and blue in the spectrum. Our copper alloyed sovereigns are so difficult to reflect their true colours, but that's what you get with 'Red' gold. 

IMG_3346 (2).JPG

Edited by Britannia47
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, RDHC said:

I don't have much to go on, and I'm probably either deceiving myself or have even worse eyesight than a recent optician's examination revealed, but, try as I may, my two  2019 proof sovereigns do seem to have lost most of the unattractive pink colour that afflicts modern sovereigns, for the last 22 years at least, as I am informed. They don't have the nice 'old gold' look of the Gillick sovereigns, of which I have one or two, let alone the yellow gold of a recent Britannia, but they appear to be quite acceptable, even allowing for the optical trick that can be performed by tilting the coin so as to achieve a cameo effect. Any one else noticed this or am I simply a lost and deluded soul? My comparison is with two bullion 2020 sovereigns. And if I am not entirely wrong, what could be the cause of the presumably apparent (i.e. not real) improvement when the copper content remains the same as for a bullion sovereign?

Proof and bullion sovereigns are going to look different of course.

Lighting also makes a difference.

In photography, proof gold often looks dark brown, while bullion sovereigns look a more natural colour. I have never made a major mental effort to work out why, but I am sure there is someone out there who could provide clear scientific reasons.

Cameras also capture and process images differently, so it can get even more complicated.

Your observations are interesting though!

😎

Chards

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, RDHC said:

Thank you for the photos. They show the cameo effect very well but not the diminished pinkness effect or illusion that intrigues me.. 

And perhaps the famous Semolina Pilchard and his camera.

My / our comprehensive analysis of gold sovereigns alloy content is well overdue.

Some Gillick sovereigns do have some silver in their alloy, which explains why they are a nicer colour.

For example:

1958elizabethiigoldfullsovereign-testeranalysis-nocoinprovidedcrop.thumb.jpg.509771a9d60dd7f9aecc01edda4d84c9.jpg

While the gold figure is slightly high at 918 instead of 917 or 916, the silver content at 4 ppt (0.4%) is also slightly high, I would have expected about 3ppt.

A sample 1958 sovereign:

1958PENDINGNGCGoldFullSovereignElizabethIICoinUnitedKingdomNGCFirstPortraitrevcrop.thumb.jpg.f890487639f7d23203263fbb2d36522d.jpg

...and the obverse:

1958PENDINGNGCGoldFullSovereignElizabethIICoinUnitedKingdomNGCFirstPortraitobvcrop.thumb.jpg.8607409d7e26124f3179bdb345047bc5.jpg

I do wish someone at the Royal Mint would look at TSF from time to time!

😎

Chards

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Britannia47 said:

I take your point, but I assure you that both coins are the same colour. The cameo effect is due to the infamous 'trick of the light' by allowing the camera/lense to flood the 'mirrored field' with shadow at certain angles. I will send another photo of the 2 Sovs. side by side....

As you can see the Proof actually looks slightly more pink than the Bullion. The shiny relief surface of the bullion is always going to look different from the frosting on the proof relief and therefore will interfere with the colour seen by the eye or camera lens. One of the best gold coins for colour is the 'Buffalo' It has a semi matte finish and reflects red and yellow, whilst absorbing violet and blue in the spectrum. Our copper alloyed sovereigns are so difficult to reflect their true colours, but that's what you get with 'Red' gold. 

IMG_3346 (2).JPG

Thank you for your informed and very interesting explanation, which I find convincing, and for your trouble over further photographs. I agree that the very shiny surface of the bullion coin must be a large part of the illusion.

Roger

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

My / our comprehensive analysis of gold sovereigns alloy content is well overdue.

Some Gillick sovereigns do have some silver in their alloy, which explains why they are a nicer colour.

For example:

1958elizabethiigoldfullsovereign-testeranalysis-nocoinprovidedcrop.thumb.jpg.509771a9d60dd7f9aecc01edda4d84c9.jpg

While the gold figure is slightly high at 918 instead of 917 or 916, the silver content at 4 ppt (0.4%) is also slightly high, I would have expected about 3ppt.

A sample 1958 sovereign:

1958PENDINGNGCGoldFullSovereignElizabethIICoinUnitedKingdomNGCFirstPortraitrevcrop.thumb.jpg.f890487639f7d23203263fbb2d36522d.jpg

...and the obverse:

1958PENDINGNGCGoldFullSovereignElizabethIICoinUnitedKingdomNGCFirstPortraitobvcrop.thumb.jpg.8607409d7e26124f3179bdb345047bc5.jpg

I do wish someone at the Royal Mint would look at TSF from time to time!

😎

Thank you, Lawrence, for both your posts - and for your efforts to make the Mint see sense. Very fine coin, by the way.

Roger

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, RDHC said:

Thank you, Lawrence, for both your posts - and for your efforts to make the Mint see sense. Very fine coin, by the way.

Roger

Thank you for those kind words, I'll keep trying.

Yes, it is a nice looking sovereign, helped by a good photo.

Take a bow @SemolinaPilchard!

😎

Chards

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Cookies & terms of service

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. By continuing to use this site you consent to the use of cookies and to our Privacy Policy & Terms of Use