7879 bullion jewellery

[Prophecy]

Hi all. What do you all think about 7879.co bullion jewellery? It's the UK's version of Mene. Better premiums than Mene I think. I am keen to wear some bullion but the premiums are still high from a bullion POV.

http://7879.co

[LawrenceChard]

1 hour ago, Prophecy said:

Hi all. What do you all think about 7879.co bullion jewellery? It's the UK's version of Mene. Better premiums than Mene I think. I am keen to wear some bullion but the premiums are still high from a bullion POV.

http://7879.co

Sounds a bit like a paid placement to me.

WTF are Mene, and

What do you mean "better premiums"?

How high are these?

😎

[Prophecy]

I knew someone would think it was a paid placement. No, I just did some research on some items that are being sold in the sales area of this forum. Mene is an American (Canadian I think) jewellery company that makes 24k gold jewellery with, I think 30% premium over spot. But if you want to buy and import you get the 20% vat added on. Not good for gold bullion investment... Over here in the UK no such options were available for that until the aforementioned 7879. Only found out about them because of the listing in here (the seller didn't mention the jewller but a reverse image search from their listing found it). I understand jewellery premiums over spot are up to 1000% so all jewellery is c**p for investment purposes. 

 

Curious if others have gone this route and if they found bullion jewellery that is better premium. If not, I might slam out some 24k rings at 10-15% over spot but only when gold dips

[Prophecy]

In summary:

Mene 24k jewellery seems to be 40% over spot with 20% VAT on top of that plus $75 post. Which works out at c.70% premium.

7879 24k jewellery is 30-40% premium over spot plus that annoying 20% vat so 60% premium.

Random jeweller is 900-1000% premium and 9-18k gold so not worth it at all from an investment value pov.

Someone correct my random calculations.

[Prophecy]

Basically, does anyone own any of this stuff and/or have you found lower premium bullion jewellery?

[Roy]

28 minutes ago, Prophecy said:

I just did some research on some items that are being sold in the sales area of this forum. Only found out about them because of the listing in here (the seller didn't mention the jewller but a reverse image search from their listing found it). 

 

[LawrenceChard]

1 hour ago, Prophecy said:

In summary:

Mene 24k jewellery seems to be 40% over spot with 20% VAT on top of that plus $75 post. Which works out at c.70% premium.

7879 24k jewellery is 30-40% premium over spot plus that annoying 20% vat so 60% premium.

Random jeweller is 900-1000% premium and 9-18k gold so not worth it at all from an investment value pov.

Someone correct my random calculations.

Your "random calculations" are too high by a factor of about 10...

... but apart from that...

😎

[Prophecy]

You're right, I am exaggerating a bit unless you look at luxury jewellers... Any idea what the gold value could be in this £1799 9k jobby from H Samuel? I was trying to compare equivalent products...

 

https://www.hsamuel.co.uk/webstore/d/8151393/9ct+Yellow+Solid+Gold+20+Inch+Curb+Chain/

[sixgun]

If this is even vaguely for investment purposes then there is no point comparing with H Samuels. You need to look on the forum for bits that come up or better still the auction houses. https://www.the-saleroom.com/

Anything from a High Street jeweller is going to be top dollar so a comparison with a high price is no comparison at all. Go to the saleroom and then from there go to actual auction house websites and see if you can dig out the previous selling prices for the sort of stuff you are interested in. i expect jewellery bought at auction houses will often be resold so the prices paid have to be a good deal below High Street jewellers' prices. Also remember there is a buyer's premium to pay.

In the link you sent for Samuels there is no mention of weight but i see a previous buyer said the chain weighed 45g

So we have 9/24 x 45 = 16.875g - Right now gold is £47.82/g spot so the chain is 16.875 x £47.82 = £806 - it retails for £1799 - it is over 120% above spot.
Buying a new chain from Samuels as an investment is a loser from the moment you walk out the shop. 

The advantage of jewellery is you can enjoy wearing it and it is more portable. As an investment you are better buying some sovereigns - you will get more gold for your money and you can forget about VAT.

If the idea is to resell the items at a higher price then your comparison has to be with where people sell jewellery - not Samuels - hence the auction house, private sales, ebay or wherever.

i took a look at the 7879 website - there i see the suggestion that you would face a 1000% mark-up from other jewellers - this is BS - i just showed Samuels had a 120% mark up over spot. This is shabby practice aimed at those who can't do sums and don't know prices - i just looked at a chain, it was £675 with the metal quoted as being worth £404, so a £271 premium over spot which is 67% over spot. Less than Samuels - could you do better, probably but why buy jewellery as an investment?

Edited July 1, 2022 by sixgun

[Abyss]

Gold jewellery worst forms of investment the best price obtain is scrap melt when selling.

https://www.bairdmint.com/live-metals-pricing

I recently came across this issue when my mum wanted four gold bangles for her 70th birthday. The method to minimise the loss buy several 1oz Gold Krugerrands close to spot on the forum take them to India and pay for the artisan cost for melting and making into the design mum would like.

Still be losing 5-7% but it is a lot less than buying the jewellery from a shop. The only jewellery appreciated in value mums wedding jewellery purchased 45 years ago.

Unless your willing to wait several decades to break even don’t buy jewellery as form of Gold investment.

[Britannia47]

https://24carat.co.uk/goldalloysbyvolumeframe.html

What is the point of a '9 carat' gold bracelet anyway(37.5% by weight) when the gold content by volumes is only 22%? Should it be called by the name of its majority alloy content perhaps? For me it has to be at least 18 ct, especially in jewelry. We know our sovereigns are 91.7% gold by weight but that drops down to 84% by volume, which might explain how the remaining 16% alloy mix changes the colour.   If the ladies (and some guys! ) want to believe they own a 'GOLD' bracelet -  good for you! 🤪 Yes, I'm a gold snob.....

[Prophecy]

Agreed. There is no way I would buy from H Samuels. It was just an example. I am thinking of the jewellery industry as a whole. I believe their price premiums are so high, especially for boutique brands, is because their sales are so low that they need one item to cover many days of no sales. I am also looking into investment gems and am getting a good grasp on their values too. i see many boutique gold rings that have £200 worth of gems in a setting with £200 gold being sold for £2000-£4000. once you know the value of the components for anything, its hard to imagine buying anymore. Add that to the cost of melting and extracting gold from scrap jewellery alloys it's just a dumb purchase for anything other than emotions. Hard to imagine buying an engagement ring knowing I am being fleeced for thousands. Id rather learn to make my own, would be cheaper and more valuable

Edited July 1, 2022 by Prophecy

[Petra]

4 hours ago, Prophecy said:

Agreed. There is no way I would buy from H Samuels. It was just an example. I am thinking of the jewellery industry as a whole. I believe their price premiums are so high, especially for boutique brands, is because their sales are so low that they need one item to cover many days of no sales. I am also looking into investment gems and am getting a good grasp on their values too. i see many boutique gold rings that have £200 worth of gems in a setting with £200 gold being sold for £2000-£4000. once you know the value of the components for anything, its hard to imagine buying anymore. Add that to the cost of melting and extracting gold from scrap jewellery alloys it's just a dumb purchase for anything other than emotions. Hard to imagine buying an engagement ring knowing I am being fleeced for thousands. Id rather learn to make my own, would be cheaper and more valuable

This is true for anything bought of someone, they have to make a living. Examples I know a little about are antiques and collectibles. Bought cheap at auction, advertised for very large mark up and then look good when they give you a discount!

[gmoose]

Never realized it's not VAT free. I thought you just pay spot + their 40% fee given it's investment grade (22+ karat) gold. But that only applies to coins and bars specifically, not for jewellery as it seems 😕

[stefffana]

I have many pieces of jewellery as investment. For sure, all of them are second hand, pre-owned, many of them antique. All of them been accumulated in time, one by one, having in mind the spot price and the premium to be as low is possible.

For a foreigner, it is more easy to go abroad with wife, wearing gold than having coins and bars in luggage. I am not talking about smuggling, I have in mind only an unexpected moment when I need to go home in a hurry, if my family needs will require that.

And yes, it is a very good investment if this gold was bought at 0% - 15% premium, depending of quality and beauty, totally a premium average of 7%-8%. This premium will be solved quick by inflation. Also, gold jewellery are very easy to sell everywhere around the world.

As an example, on this page https://est1897.co.uk/collections/jewellery/products/22ct-bicolour-gold-ladies-set-of-bangles-2 are two gold 22ct bangles, fully hallmarked, weighting 24.77g, equivalent of 22.70g pure gold, with a melting value of £1080.50.

The price is £1224, with shipping included. The premium at today's spot of £1480/oz for this set of bangles is at the moment only 13.3%, in my opinion a very good one for quality of this product. 

You need only to search carefully on sites online or on forum and always can be found a good bargain.

About this site, est1897.co.uk, I am not affiliated, but I have bought several times good quality gold jewellery and I have been always very satisfied.

 

[sixgun]

On 01/07/2022 at 09:56, Britannia47 said:

https://24carat.co.uk/goldalloysbyvolumeframe.html

What is the point of a '9 carat' gold bracelet anyway(37.5% by weight) when the gold content by volumes is only 22%? Should it be called by the name of its majority alloy content perhaps? For me it has to be at least 18 ct, especially in jewelry. We know our sovereigns are 91.7% gold by weight but that drops down to 84% by volume, which might explain how the remaining 16% alloy mix changes the colour.   If the ladies (and some guys! ) want to believe they own a 'GOLD' bracelet -  good for you! 🤪 Yes, I'm a gold snob.....

The purpose of 9ct is that it is harder wearing - you buy jewellery to wear - we have already decided it is a poor investment unless perhaps you managed to pick it up at pawnbroker prices.

Edited July 5, 2022 by sixgun