50g Pamp gold bar ebay????

[CollectorNo1]

Well, havnt seen this before on ebay..

The bar below is being listed as being stolen,seller said he was scammed and everyone on all forums to keep an eye out.been reported to the "special crime squad"? And a reward is being offered..

Imo the scammers are the ones who have been scammed...🤣🤣

What do you think of this bar and packaging....anything look dodgy??

 

[Coverte]

This sounds like fun, people are bidding on it - insurance claim scam (be seller) maybe ??

No, that wouldn't work.... 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154584586912?_trksid=p2471758.m4703

Edited September 2, 2021 by Coverte

[CollectorNo1]

Just now, Coverte said:

This sounds like fun, people are bidding on it - insurance claim scam maybe ??

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154584586912?_trksid=p2471758.m4703

Yeah I know...very strange..deffinatly an insurance scam...I can't understand why people are bidding on it if its been stolen..🤪dont these people read the description and why? Advertise it on Ebay if it has infact been stolen....this is a Doozy😃

[Tn21]

@Pampfan what's your take on the bar Itself ?

Edited September 2, 2021 by Tn21

[Pampfan]

In my opinion - the bar looks good!

But the only way to be sure 100% - it needs to be tested.

The Assay card is an older one - and the bar itself is on the rarer side being 50 grams in the old Assay.

On the front of the bar - (picture is blurry) - I believe that the coins in the Fortuna horn have the old style motifs on them - if they do - then that would make me feel stronger on it being real.

[CollectorNo1]

12 minutes ago, Tn21 said:

@Pampfan what's your take on the bar Itself ?

I'm not a bar collector but looks totally fake..the image of lady fortuna is to large,touching the outline of the bar...the strike is so weak and has no definition no crispness to the lines..just looks awful...plus the certificate no has not been stamped on the bar itself

The packaging looks like a child has made it...

[CollectorNo1]

9 minutes ago, Pampfan said:

In my opinion - the bar looks good!

But the only way to be sure 100% - it needs to be tested.

The Assay card is an older one - and the bar itself is on the rarer side being 50 grams in the old Assay.

On the front of the bar - (picture is blurry) - I believe that the coins in the Fortuna horn have the old style motifs on them - if they do - then that would make me feel stronger on it being real.

I'd be interested to see some other images of these older ones..I cannot find anything? The image of fortuna looks to large..and appears very poorly struck.. even if it is a little blurred..I've compared it to many others and it doesn't come close to any other images of 50g bars.

Regards

[Pampfan]

I think the reason it looks blurred is because it still has the protective coating over the bar.

 

 

[CollectorNo1]

42 minutes ago, Pampfan said:

I think the reason it looks blurred is because it still has the protective coating over the bar.

 

 

So as well as the plastic protector it the also have a protective coating on the bar?

[CollectorNo1]

When you compare it to this 50g bar..they look to me to be of a totally different condition? 

[Pampfan]

Pamp has changed the design details of the Fortuna bar a few times over the years.  The one you refernce above is the most current version - in the Veriscan assay package.  The other bar must be at least 15 to 20 years old based on the design details - which include each individual coin having a figure inside it. If you look at the above - the coins are just blank.

[Pampfan]

here is a vintage silver fortuna - different from the current rendition.

[matt1r]

Absolutely guttering if it’s a genuine claim, good way to get the message out and make people aware..

[Scaffstacker]

I think just from the get go my personal opinion it being a older version of a pamp bar it’s a red light they’ve just moved on to something they haven’t tried yet and people aren’t used to, there’s plenty of seasoned stackers/collectors on here they should have one or two of these they’ve never let go, I’m sure you’ll find out soon enough.

[CollectorNo1]

Thankyou for your insight but I'm talking about the gold version,not silver... The original post states it was stolen/scammed in August but not many details of the incident...the seller has now advertised it again on ebay as stolen...but there are people bidding on it?.to me that is very strange..to you..you probably have a different opinion...one thing I will ask as you have more experience than me when it comes to Pamp Suisse bars...do they not always stamp the c.o.a number on the bar which corralates to the c.o.a number on the Assay card? Also if you look at the printing of the 'Number,Finess and weight the script is far from what you would expect from Pamp suisse" it looks awful...I deffinatly wouldn't buy this in this condition and packaging if it was me...but as I stated I do not buy gold or silver bars period...as they are one of the most faked PM's out there... too much of a risk for me..but others who have more experience, knowledge and can detect a fake from a genuine just by a photo and not have it in hand have my respect. I will stick to what I know...although we can never be sure when we purchase a coin/ bar just from a photo that we have the genuine article until we have it in front of us and do our own tests..

Regards.

[Scaffstacker]

6 minutes ago, CollectorNo1 said:

Thankyou for your insight but I'm talking about the gold version,not silver... The original post states it was stolen/scammed in August but not many details of the incident...the seller has now advertised it again on ebay as stolen...but there are people bidding on it?.to me that is very strange..to you..you probably have a different opinion...one thing I will ask as you have more experience than me when it comes to Pamp Suisse bars...do they not always stamp the c.o.a number on the bar which corralates to the c.o.a number on the Assay card? Also if you look at the printing of the 'Number,Finess and weight the script is far from what you would expect from Pamp suisse" it looks awful...I deffinatly wouldn't buy this in this condition and packaging if it was me...but as I stated I do not buy gold or silver bars period...as they are one of the most faked PM's out there... too much of a risk for me..but others who have more experience, knowledge and can detect a fake from a genuine just by a photo and not have it in hand have my respect. I will stick to what I know...although we can never be sure when we purchase a coin/ bar just from a photo that we have the genuine article until we have it in front of us and do our own tests..

Regards.

I’m talking about gold not silver in the slightest why would they counterfeit a product worth under £100 rather than a gold product retailing at 1300/1400 plus go on wish or alibaba and you’ll be surprised, I think a lot aren’t answering because eBay is mentioned and it’s obvious my opinion of course,
 

if you have a pm product what’s real cut your losses go to a bullion dealer and get a % or two under spot rather than wasting your time and money.

[Coverte]

6 hours ago, CollectorNo1 said:

Yeah I know...very strange..deffinatly an insurance scam...I can't understand why people are bidding on it if its been stolen..🤪dont these people read the description and why? Advertise it on Ebay if it has infact been stolen....this is a Doozy😃

 

From the few items I have sold on ebay, people don't seem to read descriptions properly, in this case - not at all - silly beggars deserve what they get.

The next thing will be the seller will probably set up a GoFundMe page, begging for contributions to mitagate his sad loss ............. 

 

3 hours ago, CollectorNo1 said:

The packaging looks like a child has made it...

A Chinese child one assumes then ............. 

[CollectorNo1]

4 minutes ago, Scaffstacker said:

I’m talking about gold not silver in the slightest why would they counterfeit a product worth under £100 rather than a gold product retailing at 1300/1400 plus go on wish or alibaba and you’ll be surprised, I think a lot aren’t answering because eBay is mentioned and it’s obvious my opinion of course,
 

if you have a pm product what’s real cut your losses go to a bullion dealer and get a % or two under spot rather than wasting your time and money.

I know about wish and alibaba...and ive seen ase's,Maples QB's, completer coins in abundance flooding Ebay (fakes) infact you can get any coin available now from China. And they produce many fake coins..and plenty of  coins under £100.. for as little as $5..alot of people will buy these and then pass them off on ebay as real as we are seeing at an alarming rate now....The only purchases I make now are from reputable bullion dealers..or members on here...but the reality which is minimal...even tsf members and bullion dealers can be fooled..bullion dealers less as the have high end equipment to ascertain whether a coin is real or fake,after all they have their reputation to consider and if they accidentally let a fake slip by..their rep is tarnished and its hard to get that back..whereas a member of the tsf or any other forum hasn't got much to lose if they make a genuine mistake and sell a coin that isn't genuine...not a mark they want against their name...but we are human and we all make mistakes now and then...

[LawrenceChard]

5 hours ago, CollectorNo1 said:

I'm not a bar collector but looks totally fake..the image of lady fortuna is to large,touching the outline of the bar...the strike is so weak and has no definition no crispness to the lines..just looks awful...plus the certificate no has not been stamped on the bar itself

The packaging looks like a child has made it...

You are correct that the bar appears no to have a serial number.

While not all small bars are numbered, I think it is likely that all PAMP stamped bars are numbered on the bar itself, and not just on the certificate, although it is more difficult to prove a negative,

With that in mind, I suspect that the bar is a fake.

If by some chance it is genuine, then the thief would have to be pretty stupid to sell it with the certificate which makes it identifiable, and would be better to sell the bar itself on its own.

The seller is probably in breach of ebay's rules, as if the bar has been stolen, he is not selling anything, or he is trying to sell something he does not own. He would probably do better to keep quiet, but watch ebay to see if his bar gets offered for sale, rather than alert the thief.

My opinion of ebay is probably quite well known, although I suppose there are some genuine sellers and buyers, ebay is now populated by people who are crooked, stupid, or both.

I am probably harsh to judge by people's spelling, but: 

"PELASE INFROM ME OR THE POLCIE!"

Really?

😎

[CollectorNo1]

2 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

You are correct that the bar appears no to have a serial number.

While not all small bars are numbered, I think it is likely that all PAMP stamped bars are numbered on the bar itself, and not just on the certificate, although it is more difficult to prove a negative,

With that in mind, I suspect that the bar is a fake.

If by some chance it is genuine, then the thief would have to be pretty stupid to sell it with the certificate which makes it identifiable, and would be better to sell the bar itself on its own.

The seller is probably in breach of ebay's rules, as if the bar has been stolen, he is not selling anything, or he is trying to sell something he does not own. He would probably do better to keep quiet, but watch ebay to see if his bar gets offered for sale, rather than alert the thief.

My opinion of ebay is probably quite well known, although I suppose there are some genuine sellers and buyers, ebay is now populated by people who are crooked, stupid, or both.

I am probably harsh to judge by people's spelling, but: 

"PELASE INFROM ME OR THE POLCIE!"

Really?

😎

I know another seller who can't spell.....like our Mr rear coin.....

[CollectorNo1]

4 hours ago, Pampfan said:

here is a vintage silver fortuna - different from the current rendition.

Thanks....that looks alot cleaner and defined than the one I believe is another ebay fake..

[CollectorNo1]

I'm really confused....this stolen bar (according to the seller) is still receiving bids...now at £13.50???? Now we all know its fake but why!!! Are people bidding on a bar that has been stolen...? Maybe I'm missing something here, can someone put me out of my misery...because I really don't understand how people are bidding on this bar.....??? 🤪🤪🤪🤪

[ChrisSilver]

@CollectorNo1 I’ve merged your post with your pre-existing topic. Please do not create multiple topics for the same subject, many thanks  

[CollectorNo1]

I dont think I'm going to understand the rules and regulations of this site..I'm afraid to post anything now because I'm getting told off like a school kid....I seem to be doing or posting all the wrong things all the time...any advice of what I can do and what is deemed wrong would be a great help from tsf members.. cos I'm totally lost now??..🙄🙄🙄

[CollectorNo1]

39 minutes ago, CollectorNo1 said:

I dont think I'm going to understand the rules and regulations of this site..I'm afraid to post anything now because I'm getting told off like a school kid....I seem to be doing or posting all the wrong things all the time...any advice of what I can do and what is deemed wrong would be a great help from tsf members.. cos I'm totally lost now??..🙄🙄🙄

If you are going to chastise me for posting something..or not merging previous comments..please let me know what??? I've done wrong and how I should proceed....instead 0f sending me a message saying I've done something that breaks your rules.. with respect I havnt got a clue what I've done wrong???