Help needed with suspicious sovereign 1915 (?). Is it fake?

[dimonets]

Hello!

Friend of mine got this coin and wondered if it's fake or real. Can you please help us?

It has fineness 917 and weight 8.03g.

Coin diameter is correct.

If it's counterfeit then where it is coming from and what purpose of it (it has relatively low price and good enough fineness of gold)?

Any thoughts welcome!

Thank you in advance.

[Pete]

Very difficult to make a comment as to whether genuine or fake.
Personally I would be curious for 2 reasons.

1. On the obverse the colon " : " after IMP is missing.  
Without comparing to one of my vaulted coins I cannot be 100% certain though.

2. The numbers for the date 1915 don't look aligned and the correct sizes.

Also impossible to tell from the pictures but there does seem to be the indications of a poorly stamped "M" Melbourne mint mark.

How do you know for sure that this coin is 917 finesse ?
How was this determined ?

Diameter and weight in spec so how about centre / average ( avoid rim ) thickness ?
If fake alloy then this will be measurably thicker and you might wish to make a specific gravity test to confirm.

Failing all the above if this is 22ct gold, yet a fake, then its still worth its weight isn gold as this item isn't really worth more than spot to any dealer.

[Touvex]

Just had a look at mine and the hair on the back of the horse neck looks very different, mine has a lot more detail, this one seems like it’s just 3/4 spikes? The sword and dragons claws at the front also looks less detailed here. 

Edited May 8, 2021 by Touvex

[dimonets]

18 minutes ago, Pete said:

How do you know for sure that this coin is 917 finesse ?

How was this determined ?

Diameter and weight in spec so how about centre / average ( avoid rim ) thickness ?

Thanks Pete.

All information was given to me by a friend (he is not newbie and is an expert in russian gold coins on other website), here is what he said:

fineness was determined by him using hydrostatic weighting.

Thickness is correct too.

[dimonets]

11 minutes ago, Touvex said:

Just had a look at mine and the hair on the back of the horse neck looks very different, mine has a lot more detail, this one seems like it’s just 3/4 spikes? The sword and dragons claws at the front also looks less detailed here. 

Yes, we don't like the details on our piece too. But is it enough to prove it's counterfeit?

What the purpose of such fake if it fits all the details? Maybe some gold legalization? Or some unofficial strike by other country etc?

Also if it's fake, maybe someone has a cloned coin image with similar details?

Thanks.

[Pipers]

IMO its a fake.  Sorry

This does not mean it has no Gold in it. A lot of Fake Sovs are 18ct.   Do you have a Gold tester? 

[dimonets]

24 minutes ago, Pipers said:

IMO its a fake.  Sorry

This does not mean it has no Gold in it. A lot of Fake Sovs are 18ct.   Do you have a Gold tester? 

Thanks. We are currently thinking that it's probably Middle East fake sovereign...

Edited May 8, 2021 by dimonets

[pricha]

I had a fake George once. The gold content was correct and i almost got what i paid for it as gold increased since i bought it. The main thing is the feel of it. Hard to explain but it just felt odd. Looking at photos like this i ask myself would i buy it ? And to be honest i wouldn't buy this one.

[Allgoldcoins]

8 hours ago, dimonets said:

Hello!

Friend of mine got this coin and wondered if it's fake or real. Can you please help us?

It has fineness 917 and weight 8.03g.

Coin diameter is correct.

If it's counterfeit then where it is coming from and what purpose of it (it has relatively low price and good enough fineness of gold)?

Any thoughts welcome!

Thank you in advance.

Its a fake I am afraid.

[Leonmarsh]

Agree the coin isn't right 

[sovereignsteve]

No doubt

[dimonets]

Thanks, everyone!

[SilverStorm]

Noob question here...

Is there a difference between a fake and an imitation?   My understand (which could be wrong) is that a fake tries to pretend it’s the original but doesn’t have the correct or actual metal content.  In the above case, this coin does have the correct metal percentage.  So is it a fake?  

 I would assume this coin is an imitation as it copies the original, has the correct metal content, just not minted by the Royal Mint (or whatever mint that actually makes the actual coin).  With an imitation, you could at least melt it down for actual gold content.  

Or do we use fake and imitation interchangeably, having the same meaning?   🤔

Edited May 15, 2021 by SilverStorm

[SidS]

George V eye looks very baggy, like he's had a heavy night on the town...

[xthomasx]

17 hours ago, SilverStorm said:

Noob question here...

Is there a difference between a fake and an imitation?   My understand (which could be wrong) is that a fake tries to pretend it’s the original but doesn’t have the correct or actual metal content.  In the above case, this coin does have the correct metal percentage.  So is it a fake?  

 I would assume this coin is an imitation as it copies the original, has the correct metal content, just not minted by the Royal Mint (or whatever mint that actually makes the actual coin).  With an imitation, you could at least melt it down for actual gold content.  

Or do we use fake and imitation interchangeably, having the same meaning?   🤔

I would say: If it's not original it is a fake. In the above examples, the degree of a buyer's loss is different but both are fake. 

For the sake of curiosity, I would not mind to have a fake sov in my collection. Just today one was auctioned here in Germany, fetching the same hammer price as the genuine ones. 

 

[xthomasx]

54 minutes ago, SidS said:

George V eye looks very baggy, like he's had a heavy night on the town...

Yes, but to me the hair texture was the fishiest thing. 

 

[Pete]

I once received a fake sovereign from one of our main dealers here in the UK.
It's weight was okay but it was slightly thicker and as I was suspicious, made the specific gravity test to determine it was indeed 18ct and not 22ct gold.
Your coin is most likely a fake but as it is 22ct gold according to your measurements ( if accurate enough ) it is still worth the same to any gold dealer whether fake or not as they are buying the weight of gold. Discussing my fake with my dealer I was informed that it was most likely a "jeweller's copy" and the Middle East is well known for such.