eBay trustworthiness...?

[Maxford]

Hi guys,  what experiences have people had on EBay with regards to Sovs etc? 
 

Serious as I sometimes browse the coins on there. What warning signs should I be on my guard for apart from the obvious ones? 
 

many thanks

[MancunianStacker]

I sell and buy on eBay. You have to watch for their feedback. Are they a coins only seller or do they sell chocolate, clothes, 2nd hand jewelry and one gold sovereign. If they have no track record I’d be dubious. Plenty of highly trustworthy sellers on there though. Some are dealers with extra eBay accounts. Feedback is the best guide.

[Maxford]

Thank you very 

[InvestInCoins888]

1 hour ago, Maxford said:

Thank you very 

Invest in some scales, callipers and a trusty set of sovereign scales.

Check every sovereign you buy, even from reputable dealers!

As long as you pay with PayPal, as a buyer you are pretty safe. The chips are all stacked in a buyers favour which makes it a dangerous place for Precious Metals dealers. Only takes one unscrupulous buyer who knows how to work the system and they can end up with your gold coin and a refund. 

As a buyer, if you buy a Sovereign and something isn’t right, just use the ebay return system, and return it for a full refund. No seller can bypass it. As long as you paid with PayPal.

[Maxford]

Thanks I have digital gold scales but no callipers as yet

[Robb]

2 hours ago, Maxford said:

Hi guys,  what experiences have people had on EBay with regards to Sovs etc?

Depends if you are selling or buying.  If selling you can be swindled fairly easily.  If buying and you use PayPal you have the best protection on the Planet.  I've never heard of buyer losing $$ put plenty of sellers have been scammed.

[Maxford]

Thanks Rob

[BrumChris]

I've bought proof sovs and things like Queens Beasts on ebay. I'd be wary of buying a bullion sov or gold bars on there - easy/common to fake. Check the buyer protection terms and conditions as I believe that it excludes gold.

[Maxford]

Thanks Chris.

[Robb]

1 hour ago, BrumChris said:

I believe that it excludes gold.

Well, since fake gold isn't gold, it wouldn't be excluded.

Pretty much anything that has an "equivalent to cash" is excluded.  Since fake gold has no "equivalent to cash" you DO have buyer protection through both Ebay and PayPal.

Again, the buyer has all the protection.  The seller?  Zero.  Paypal offers no "seller protection" for Gold bullion.

 

Our PayPal Seller Protection program does not cover:

• Claims or Chargebacks for Significantly Not as Described.
• Items that you deliver or are picked up in person, including at a point of sale.
• Digital goods and licenses for digital content.
• Items equivalent to cash (including, without limitation, gift cards or vouchers). Gold Bullion.

 

 

 

[BrumChris]

1 hour ago, Robb said:

Well, since fake gold isn't gold, it wouldn't be excluded.

Pretty much anything that has an "equivalent to cash" is excluded.  Since fake gold has no "equivalent to cash" you DO have buyer protection through both Ebay and PayPal.

Again, the buyer has all the protection.  The seller?  Zero.  Paypal offers no "seller protection" for Gold bullion.

 

Our PayPal Seller Protection program does not cover:

• Claims or Chargebacks for Significantly Not as Described.
• Items that you deliver or are picked up in person, including at a point of sale.
• Digital goods and licenses for digital content.
• Items equivalent to cash (including, without limitation, gift cards or vouchers). Gold Bullion.

 

 

 

You may well be right but I'd rather not put it to the test! I'm not an expert on fakes but some that I've seen have been 9 or 14 karat gold being passed off as 22 or 24 karat. 

[Maxford]

That’s what worries me, I’ve heard there’s some good fakes out now and I’m not sure if I’d spot them!

[Prophecy]

6 hours ago, Maxford said:

That’s what worries me, I’ve heard there’s some good fakes out now and I’m not sure if I’d spot them!

https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/gold-sovereign.html scroll down

[Chorlton]

1 hour ago, Prophecy said:

https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/gold-sovereign.html scroll down

Very good post, this is exactly what people need to see and understand.

[Prophecy]

28 minutes ago, Chorlton said:

Very good post, this is exactly what people need to see and understand.

It's insane what the Chinese are allowed to get away with.

[PeterPan]

3 minutes ago, Prophecy said:

It's insane what the Chinese are allowed to get away with.

🤫 Shhh, don't invite in the tinfoil hat brigade in. Everything is China's fault apparently. 

2 hours ago, Prophecy said:

https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/gold-sovereign.html scroll down

At those prices maybe this is where Wonger is buying buying his "gold" 😂 

I wonder what the quality is actually like. They would make good little novelty gifts for kids. Imagine a school teaching kids about money and investing and giving them each one of these. They'd be hooked and buying the real deal as soon as they got a job. 

[Prophecy]

'Crafts' apparently

https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/krugerrand.html

https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/gold-american-eagle.html

https://guide.alibaba.com/shopping-guides/french-rooster-gold-coin.html

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Custom-Gift-Items-Metal-Craft-Gold_1600054269341.html?spm=a2700.7724857.normalList.12.5b041e80c579r9&s=p

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/1-oz-24k-pure-gold-plated_60748619159.html?spm=a2700.7724857.normalList.47.5b041e80c579r9

Can't find fake gold pandas in there though.

[Maxford]

Unbelievable!!! If these things are easily available then I’d assume a large percentage of what’s on eBay is fake. Personally I prefer Victoria young heads though and there appears to be a large influx of these on eBay, are there known fakes?

[Prophecy]

I have been following it for a few years. It seems that when a new minting factory opens in China, to get fast money to establish themselves they sell counterfeit coins. Then, once they get big enough, they clean up their act (at least on the surface). Some older companies that have cleaned up their act somewhat used to sell:

[BrumChris]

1 hour ago, Maxford said:

Unbelievable!!! If these things are easily available then I’d assume a large percentage of what’s on eBay is fake. Personally I prefer Victoria young heads though and there appears to be a large influx of these on eBay, are there known fakes?

Yes. Buy from a dealer. Modern proofs are a better bet as they'd have to fake the frosting/mirror finish.

[Chorlton]

One simple way to check is to have a know high quality example from a recognised dealer to compare against. This tends to be more effective for quality proofs or rarer coins in top condition rather than well used bullion. Then you get into the more involved ways of checking which need various equipment such as accurate scales, a loupe moving up to more expensive equipment at which point you have to justify the cost etc.

[HGr]

There's loads of 'house clearance' and 'untested' rubbish on there. And people still buy it! I haven't bought gold on ebay yet, but at this point I would only buy gold that was a bit obscure and highly unlikely to be faked. 

Do any more experienced buyers think a coin being well-circulated is a good indicator for proving whether it is genuine? 

Regarding proof finish, I have seen loads of fake silver with a proof finish, so I assumed it would be just as easy or easier maybe? 

[richatthecroft]

On 25/06/2020 at 19:01, Maxford said:

Hi guys,  what experiences have people had on EBay with regards to Sovs etc? 

I buy and sell on eBay regularly.
 

 In terms of buying, my experiences have all being positive- I once received a 2005 Proof Sovereign which was ropey and not as described- the seller was genuinely mortified- he had multiple and sent the wrong coin to me-  but bent over backwards to put things right, he sent me a replacement, reduced the price I paid by £50 and then refunded me a further £20 in cash sent with the replacement Sovereign for my trouble! I don’t think he needed to go this far, a replacement would have sufficed- I ended up paying £70 less than I initially paid! The replacement graded as a 70! 
More recently however, I bought a 2017 1/4 Gold Anniversary Proof Krugerrand- the price was reasonable, the photos were terrible! I sent a message to the guy and asked for further photos and a verbal report- he messaged back and provided a good verbal description, the interaction was friendly and he reassured me the the coin was in ‘mint condition’.  This however, was what arrived: 

Hardly ‘mint condition’!

I politely asked for a refund and I then endured a couple of days worth of insults by message (which I didn’t respond to) .  Instead I remained assertive and explained why I wanted a refund and when not forthcoming I set up an eBay  case against him.  To cut a long story short, eventually it was adjudicated in my favour and after nearly three weeks, I received a refund. 
The process was an absolute pain as the seller stubbornly slowed the process up at every stage- even counter accusations were made implying I had switched coins and questioned my integrity and honesty. 

The whole experience was a pain- I think less assertive people could give up and not pursue a case for refund.  But, it does highlight that the buyer protection is robust- but the process is longwinded if the seller is resisting the process. 
 

 

[Maxford]

Thank you. So with that in mind would you say to only try buy proof and uncirculated and stay away from bullion coins?

[sovereignsteve]

1 hour ago, richatthecroft said:

More recently however, I bought a 2017 1/4 Gold Anniversary Proof Krugerrand- the price was reasonable, the photos were terrible! I sent a message to the guy and asked for further photos and a verbal report- he messaged back and provided a good verbal description, the interaction was friendly and he reassured me the the coin was in ‘mint condition’.  This however, was what arrived: 
 

Hardly ‘mint condition’!

I politely asked for a refund and I then endured a couple of days worth of insults by message (which I didn’t respond to) .  Instead I remained assertive and explained why I wanted a refund and when not forthcoming I set up an eBay  case against him.  To cut a long story short, eventually it was adjudicated in my favour and after nearly three weeks, I received a refund. 
The process was an absolute pain as the seller stubbornly slowed the process up at every stage- even counter accusations were made implying I had switched coins and questioned my integrity and honesty. 

The whole experience was a pain- I think less assertive people could give up and not pursue a case for refund.  But, it does highlight that the buyer protection is robust- but the process is longwinded if the seller is resisting the process. 
 

 

 

I had a very similar experience with a 1902 2sov piece. The guy had 3 for sale at the one time, all for the same price. Two were dogs but the third was very nice indeed. I messaged him and emphasised that I was only interested in the one particular coin and bought that one on BIN.

You can guess what happened next of course; a few days later I received one of the dogs. He denied everything and started sending abusive messages accusing me of scamming him.

I opened a case and duly sent the coin back to Liverpool but then the revelation came that he had moved to the Wirral (or it might have been North Wales) without informing ebay. I was very lucky in that the coin was undelivered at the Liverpool address and the PO duly returned it to me. That could have gone very badly.

I got my money back after talking to ebay and sending the coin to the Wirral but it took me absolutely ages to get my second special delivery costs reimbursed.