Need advice on early 1900s or 1800s £5 sovereign

[Nick1368]

Hello Silver Forum

I need some help please.

£5 sovereigns are my new favourite now and I am really tempted to buy an old £5 sovereign, one from the 1800s or early 1900s .

Any advice would be appreciated on which designs or dates to look for and how much roughly should I expect to pay for one of them ? 

I see chards have one for £3100, it's a jubilee head , where else can I look for one of them ?

The last question, are they actually good coins to buy and worth investing time and money into them ?

 

Thanks

 

Nick

[Fivepoundfred]

My personal choice from this era is the 1902 matte proof five pound, Drake sterling have a 62 grade version on their website. There is also a mint state version of the 1902 issued.

You have to be careful with the 1887 because this year is well known for forgeries, Chards have a video on this subject.

[Xander]

1 hour ago, Nick1368 said:

The last question, are they actually good coins to buy and worth investing time and money into them

Unless you buy the sought after 5 sovs, which are expensive. I've had a few and sold them on. Now I prefer to buy sovereigns, more fun and much easier to re-sell. 

[Nick1368]

On 09/06/2020 at 19:16, Fivepoundfred said:

My personal choice from this era is the 1902 matte proof five pound, Drake sterling have a 62 grade version on their website. There is also a mint state version of the 1902 issued.

You have to be careful with the 1887 because this year is well known for forgeries, Chards have a video on this subject.

I am really tempted to pull the trigger on chard's 1887 , it carries a hefty premium but apparently it's been confirmed as genuine by The Royal Mint.

I would buy a 1902 or 1893 but can't find them anywhere , the one that you recommend on Drake sterling is sold now.

I watched the video on chard's website , very interesting video .

[Elements]

Sovereign rarities have one cheaper and I think better grade

https://www.sovr.co.uk/victoria-1887-five-pounds-golden-jubilee-issue-bi03142.html

Even have a 1902 (even cheaper! But currency issue) if you’d prefer that year. 
https://www.sovr.co.uk/edward-vii-1902-five-pounds-currency-issue-mintage-34-910-di13274.html

25 minutes ago, Nick1368 said:

I am really tempted to pull the trigger on chard's 1887 , it carries a hefty premium but apparently it's been confirmed as genuine by The Royal Mint.

I would buy a 1902 or 1893 but can't find them anywhere , the one that you recommend on Drake sterling is sold now.

I watched the video on chard's website , very interesting video .

 

[Nick1368]

1 hour ago, Elements said:

Sovereign rarities have one cheaper and I think better grade

https://www.sovr.co.uk/victoria-1887-five-pounds-golden-jubilee-issue-bi03142.html

Even have a 1902 (even cheaper! But currency issue) if you’d prefer that year. 
https://www.sovr.co.uk/edward-vii-1902-five-pounds-currency-issue-mintage-34-910-di13274.html

 

Hi

Really appreciate your recommendation.

Never heard of this place before, are they reliable And trustworthy? 

[Elements]

Yes, pretty established dealer. They had a stall at the London coin show I went too. I haven’t traded with them personally but others here may vouch for them too?

[CadmiumGreen]

5 hours ago, Nick1368 said:

Hi

Really appreciate your recommendation.

Never heard of this place before, are they reliable And trustworthy? 

Can also confirm reliable. Bought from them before and they also have quality catalogues, which make nice references, as well.

[Nick1368]

oh wow they are based in London actually and I never heard of them before, I am gonna go there sometime this week and hopefully buy my coin in person .

 

[richatthecroft]

3 hours ago, Nick1368 said:

oh wow they are based in London actually and I never heard of them before, I am gonna go there sometime this week and hopefully buy my coin in person .

 

Hope you find a nice 5 Sovereign to add to your collection.  
Steve Hill who as you might know, updated Marsh’s ‘The Gold Sovereign’ works at Sovereign Rarities- I don’t think you will get much better advice than talking to him about your purchase. 

[Elements]

3 hours ago, Nick1368 said:

oh wow they are based in London actually and I never heard of them before, I am gonna go there sometime this week and hopefully buy my coin in person .

 

If you’re in no particular rush, you could keep an eye out for some of these in Auctions. Could bag a bargain (watch out for bid premium though!) but I’d get it checked after, I’ve read fakes can slip into auctions and not always picked up. They should honour a refund however I would have thought if found not to be genuine

some 1887s in forthcoming auctions....

https://www.davidduggleby.com/auctions/20082020882/0/2505/QueenVictoria1887goldfivepoundcoinpreviouslymounted.aspx?search=1887

https://auctions.lockdales.com/catalogue/lot/43c671dff8133ad37429d2af6994f1fd/1620b385b6067afe2b4bdbf19a2da8de/coins-militaria-auction-185-lot-5/

https://bid.tennants.co.uk/m/lot-details/index/catalog/864/lot/530094?url=%2Fm%2Fsearch%2F%3Fkey%3DFive%2Bpound%26search-area%3Don%26xclosed%3Dno
 

https://www.dnw.co.uk/auctions/catalogue/lot.php?auction_id=571&lot_uid=338391&search=1

[Nick1368]

31 minutes ago, richatthecroft said:

Hope you find a nice 5 Sovereign to add to your collection.  
Steve Hill who as you might know, updated Marsh’s ‘The Gold Sovereign’ works at Sovereign Rarities- I don’t think you will get much better advice than talking to him about your purchase. 

oh wow sounds like these people are really on top of their game and i feel stupid for not knowing them all this time ,I actually spoke to them over the phone this morning and they seem really nice .

 I'm gonna go to their office in Mayfair some time this week or early next week to see the coins in person and hopefully buy one of them.

[Nick1368]

15 hours ago, Elements said:

Sovereign rarities have one cheaper and I think better grade

https://www.sovr.co.uk/victoria-1887-five-pounds-golden-jubilee-issue-bi03142.html

Even have a 1902 (even cheaper! But currency issue) if you’d prefer that year. 
https://www.sovr.co.uk/edward-vii-1902-five-pounds-currency-issue-mintage-34-910-di13274.html

 

what is your opinion on the 1902  currency issue  one ? which one out of the two would you go for if you were to buy one of them ?

[Zhorro]

17 minutes ago, Nick1368 said:

what is your opinion on the 1902  currency issue  one ? which one out of the two would you go for if you were to buy one of them ?

According to the Drake Sterling website, regarding the 1902 quintuple sovereign:

"While 35,000 five pound coins were struck for circulation, 27,000 were melted, leaving behind a mere 8,000 pieces. Being circulation coins, some were spent, mounted, or otherwise lost, so the number existing in high grade (MS62 or better) is low. Meanwhile, the mint made 8,066 proof examples and most of these were put aside by collectors and preserved in sets, so large numbers are still available on the market today."

https://www.drakesterling.com/news-wire/post/1902-five-pound-values

[richatthecroft]

22 minutes ago, Nick1368 said:

what is your opinion on the 1902  currency issue  one ? which one out of the two would you go for if you were to buy one of them ?

Both will be impressive in the 5 Pound denomination but for me, the Edward VII is a plain and in my opinion, miserable depiction of the King, perhaps he’d had too many Brandy’s when he signed off on this portrait.  
My choice would be the Victoria, lovely detailing.  
Whichever you choose, enjoy! 

[Elements]

1 hour ago, Nick1368 said:

what is your opinion on the 1902  currency issue  one ? which one out of the two would you go for if you were to buy one of them ?

There’s many more 1887s in the graded population suggesting this should be the cheaper option for a decent grade. I’ve only been into numismatics for a few years so this is just my personal opinion, no advice intended. I prefer either bullion (but not too rough!) grade low premium or the best you can afford towards the top end of the graded population, the middle ground can sometimes be hard to sell on. As it’s a £5 that’s a fair amount to put into a single coin so for pure bullion 5 individual sovs might be better in terms of liquidity, so for me I’d only be interested in one as a premium numismatic and the rarer year the 1902 currency also fits that bill, but not cheap!

https://www.svcollector.com/en/5-pounds-and-2-pounds/1902-edward-vii-5-pound-gold-sovereign-ms63-pcgs.html

[sovereignsteve]

2 hours ago, Zhorro said:

According to the Drake Sterling website, regarding the 1902 quintuple sovereign:

"While 35,000 five pound coins were struck for circulation, 27,000 were melted, leaving behind a mere 8,000 pieces. Being circulation coins, some were spent, mounted, or otherwise lost, so the number existing in high grade (MS62 or better) is low. Meanwhile, the mint made 8,066 proof examples and most of these were put aside by collectors and preserved in sets, so large numbers are still available on the market today."

https://www.drakesterling.com/news-wire/post/1902-five-pound-values

That's interesting information, I hadn't seen that before.

I did raise my eyebrow when I followed the link to the Sovereign rarities 1902 business strike advert. It states a mintage of almost 35k but I always thought the matt proof was more common, certainly in my experience. It's a shame it has so many marks or it would be a very good buy.

[DarkChameleon]

Dont they have british redbooks or blue books?

[sovereignsteve]

3 hours ago, Elements said:

If you’re in no particular rush, you could keep an eye out for some of these in Auctions. Could bag a bargain (watch out for bid premium though!) but I’d get it checked after, I’ve read fakes can slip into auctions and not always picked up. They should honour a refund however I would have thought if found not to be genuine

some 1887s in forthcoming auctions....

https://www.davidduggleby.com/auctions/20082020882/0/2505/QueenVictoria1887goldfivepoundcoinpreviouslymounted.aspx?search=1887

https://auctions.lockdales.com/catalogue/lot/43c671dff8133ad37429d2af6994f1fd/1620b385b6067afe2b4bdbf19a2da8de/coins-militaria-auction-185-lot-5/

https://bid.tennants.co.uk/m/lot-details/index/catalog/864/lot/530094?url=%2Fm%2Fsearch%2F%3Fkey%3DFive%2Bpound%26search-area%3Don%26xclosed%3Dno
 

https://www.dnw.co.uk/auctions/catalogue/lot.php?auction_id=571&lot_uid=338391&search=1

I don't like the look of most of those, I would stay away personally.

[Nick1368]

6 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

That's interesting information, I hadn't seen that before.

I did raise my eyebrow when I followed the link to the Sovereign rarities 1902 business strike advert. It states a mintage of almost 35k but I always thought the matt proof was more common, certainly in my experience. It's a shame it has so many marks or it would be a very good buy.

yes very interesting information, same thing is mentioned on NGC's website as well, that 27000 of the currency issues were melted .

and you are right so many marks on that 1902 currency issue .

Sovereign rarities also  have a 1902 matt proof  version for £3500 , what do you think of that one ?

[richatthecroft]

@Nick1368 

https://atkinsonsbullion.com/pre-owned/gold/pre-owned-gold-coins/pre-owned-1887-uk-victoria-jubilee-head-quintuple

[Nick1368]

16 hours ago, richatthecroft said:

@Nick1368 

https://atkinsonsbullion.com/pre-owned/gold/pre-owned-gold-coins/pre-owned-1887-uk-victoria-jubilee-head-quintuple

Thanks @richatthecroft 

I am going to sovereign rarities next week to see their stock In person and see what happens but I will keep this coin from Atkinsons in mind as well as chard's one. 

 

[Nick1368]

Today I went to sovereign Rarities office in Mayfair and it was a very successful visit, in the end I decided to pick up this beautiful 1902 Matt proof Quintuple sovereign. 
Ian and his wife were very helpful and friendly and they even gave me a copy of Michael Marsh’s 'The Gold Sovereign' book free of charge as a gesture of good will .

 

I am very pleased with my purchase, thank you very much @Elements and @richatthecroft for recommending sovereign Rarities  to me and I’d also like to thank other forum members for their very helpful comments, tips and advice .

Question : Do you think I should get this graded ? 

[sovereignsteve]

6 hours ago, Nick1368 said:

Question : Do you think I should get this graded ? 

I would say not.

From those pictures it doesn't look like it will attract a high grade, but that could be deceptive.

You could argue having it graded would guarantee it's authenticity but having the purchase provenance should be good enough for that purpose.

If you think the coin is better than the pictures suggest then go for it, you can always break it out if you don't like the grade achieved.

[Nick1368]

20 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

I would say not.

From those pictures it doesn't look like it will attract a high grade, but that could be deceptive.

You could argue having it graded would guarantee it's authenticity but having the purchase provenance should be good enough for that purpose.

If you think the coin is better than the pictures suggest then go for it, you can always break it out if you don't like the grade achieved.

Thanks a lot for your advice.

I wouldn't say the coin is better than the pictures.

I am not worried about the authenticity of the coin one bit  since I paid top dollar to buy it from a very reputable dealer but I thought  grading it would make it easier for me to sell it to private buyers in the future , say in two years time I decide to list it on the forum, members might not feel comfortable buying such a coin from an individual like me, but when the coin is graded it would be a totally different story and people would buy it with confidence , don't you think so ?