true price of gold?

[HawkHybrid]

31 minutes ago, Martlet said:

Trades are put into $ values for reference, most people know what their currency to $ is worth, but not a clue what the Ruble or Yuan are valued at.  Some times trades can be shipments of goods exchanged like large scale barter. 

 

I was referencing the ratio $600 billion versus $100 billion.

china is only making a modest percentage of trades outside

of the dollar.

 

HH

[MancunianStacker]

54 minutes ago, HawkHybrid said:

 

I was referencing the ratio $600 billion versus $100 billion.

china is only making a modest percentage of trades outside

of the dollar.

 

HH

Well, still down $100B between 2018-2019 (1/6 of 2018s figure apparently, hardly a modest amount). Give it another 5 years and see where we are then especially if Trump is re-elected.

It’s not like you can switch trade off over night especially when you hold so many dollars in the back pocket. You need to get rid of a few before you go continental-trade only and that will cause a little extra inflation for USA. New Silk Road needs completing too. Soon you’ll have France-Malaysia trade at high speed etc.

 

[HawkHybrid]

21 minutes ago, MancunianStacker said:

Well, still down $100B between 2018-2019 (1/6 of 2018s figure apparently, hardly a modest amount). Give it another 5 years and see where we are then especially if Trump is re-elected.

It’s not like you can switch trade off over night especially when you hold so many dollars in the back pocket. You need to get rid of a few before you go continental-trade only and that will cause a little extra inflation for USA. New Silk Road needs completing too. Soon you’ll have France-Malaysia trade at high speed etc.

 

 

I think it was 2013-14 when china tried to reduce their holding of

us treasury bonds(exposure to usd). at the time china had maybe

$1.3 trillion, recent(ish) I think it was at $0.8-1 trillion. this could

take some time. I wouldn't use the word 'soon' to describe the rate

at which things could proceed from here as china has been known

to use planning that spans decades. (my guess is all/most of the

low hanging fruit have already been picked ie progress could be

much slower from this point.)

china haven't even worked out what they would use instead of the

usd. those who are thinking gold standard, haven't done the maths.

 

HH

[GoldenPhil]

14 minutes ago, HawkHybrid said:

 

I think it was 2013-14 when china tried to reduce their holding of

us treasury bonds(exposure to usd). at the time china had maybe

$1.3 trillion, recent(ish) I think it was at $0.8-1 trillion. this could

take some time. I wouldn't use the word 'soon' to describe the rate

at which things could proceed from here as china has been known

to use planning that spans decades. (my guess is all/most of the

low hanging fruit have already been picked ie progress could be

much slower from this point.)

china haven't even worked out what they would use instead of the

usd. those who are thinking gold standard, haven't done the maths.

 

HH

Yes decade long planning eg the regaining of Hong Kong. They just waited 100 years. Out of interest what is the maths on gold standard? 

[MancunianStacker]

1 hour ago, HawkHybrid said:

 

I think it was 2013-14 when china tried to reduce their holding of

us treasury bonds(exposure to usd). at the time china had maybe

$1.3 trillion, recent(ish) I think it was at $0.8-1 trillion. this could

take some time. I wouldn't use the word 'soon' to describe the rate

at which things could proceed from here as china has been known

to use planning that spans decades. (my guess is all/most of the

low hanging fruit have already been picked ie progress could be

much slower from this point.)

china haven't even worked out what they would use instead of the

usd. those who are thinking gold standard, haven't done the maths.

 

HH

I’m sure they can use those $s to help build the new silk road. 

https://www.en.sge.com.cn/eng_news_News/543430
 

All set up a while back. I’m sure they’ve done the Maths. It doesn’t have to be backed much at all by gold, it just needs to be preferred.

[HawkHybrid]

15 minutes ago, MancunianStacker said:

I’m sure they can use those $s to help build the new silk road. 

https://www.en.sge.com.cn/eng_news_News/543430
 

All set up a while back. I’m sure they’ve done the Maths. It doesn’t have to be backed much at all by gold, it just needs to be preferred.

 

you must replace that which was denominated in dollars with either

another currency, (presumably the yuan will be favoured by china for

this) or something like the gold standard. there's simply not enough

yuan in existence to cover china's international trade in addition to

the domestic trades. the gold standard can't provide the funding

required even with current figures.

any trade route requires some form of currency/money unless

people are planning on using barter.

it's because they have done the maths, that's why the bulk of their

trade is still denominated in dollars.

 

HH

[MancunianStacker]

5 minutes ago, HawkHybrid said:

that's why the bulk of their

trade is still denominated in dollars

At the moment maybe. They are exiting the $ for sure.

A gold standard can cover all the cash and debt in the world if most countries agreed to it and set a new fiat price per milligram or even an atomic weight of gold. It doesn’t even have to be 1% backed at such tiny amounts.  They could flood the world in a gold backed currency if they wished.

The problem the US has here is that unlike China and the Shanghai Gold Exchange, nobody including the president has even seen their own reserves, unlike China who got Swiss refiners to produce nice kilo bars just for their physical exchange and has it all vaulted and independently audited. Russia will be working with China on this too no doubt.

The US can’t bluff their way through it and their own auditors have just said they are fiscally unsustainable at $1Trillion debt + per annum going forward. They are broke and can’t pay it back. Only the gold can save them and that likely went a long time ago. The emperor has no clothes!

If they really do have the gold when all the Monopoly money goes back in the box at the end of the game, maybe they can buy back into the next one. It’s a case if I’ll show you mine if you show me yours then maybe we can trade again.

[MancunianStacker]

Great video on the US debt clock and a comparison of the “price of gold” from 1900 to today:

 

[HawkHybrid]

1 hour ago, GoldenPhil said:

Yes decade long planning eg the regaining of Hong Kong. They just waited 100 years. Out of interest what is the maths on gold standard? 

 

most of the global funding(maybe up to 90%) we are using is credit/debt

based. you cannot replace it with already accumulated profit based

funding(gold standard) because there isn't enough mined gold to cover all

transactions.

there's that pyramid that illustrates this.

 

HH

[HawkHybrid]

11 minutes ago, MancunianStacker said:

It doesn’t even have to be 1% backed at such tiny amounts.  They could flood the world in a gold backed currency if they wished.

 

so it's not acceptable for america to flood the markets with

0% backed by gold dollars. but, it is perfectly acceptable for

china to flood the markets with a 1% gold backed currency?

and you are expecting most countries to agree to this?

 

HH

[MancunianStacker]

8 minutes ago, HawkHybrid said:

 

so it's not acceptable for america to flood the markets with

0% backed by gold dollars. but, it is perfectly acceptable for

china to flood the markets with a 1% gold backed currency?

and you are expecting most countries to agree to this?

 

HH

New world reserve currency every 40-50 years. It doesn’t have to be just China next time it (I wasn’t implying it would be just China). It could easily be a group of like minded countries, even a world currency backed by a small % of gold to give it some back up. When a fiat currency collapses, never mind a world reserve currency, the people who got screwed will want some backing of gold to accept a fiat currency it again. 
 

Night night 

[GoldenPhil]

34 minutes ago, HawkHybrid said:

 

most of the global funding(maybe up to 90%) we are using is credit/debt

based. you cannot replace it with already accumulated profit based

funding(gold standard) because there isn't enough mined gold to cover all

transactions.

there's that pyramid that illustrates this.

 

HH

I see. The assumption I work on is that the debts would have been cleared via hyperinflation.  

[HawkHybrid]

11 hours ago, GoldenPhil said:

I see. The assumption I work on is that the debts would have been cleared via hyperinflation.  

 

the world could give up on ~50 years of credit funding.

doing so would be going backwards.

why is it that zimbabwe moved to the usd so soon after

the zimbabwe dollar collapsed?

(maybe the reward of credit funding outweigh the risk of

another collapse?)

 

HH

[BullionBuyer]

13 hours ago, MancunianStacker said:

Great video on the US debt clock and a comparison of the “price of gold” from 1900 to today:

 

 

Thought it was interesting to hear Nixon say that the US was temporarily removing the conversion of the USD into Gold. When did this become permanent???? or maybe 48 years and counting is seen as temporary.

[MancunianStacker]

48 minutes ago, BullionBuyer said:

 

Thought it was interesting to hear Nixon say that the US was temporarily removing the conversion of the USD into Gold. When did this become permanent???? or maybe 48 years and counting is seen as temporary.

Yes, that’s the joke I suppose; they said it was temporary knowing full well they wouldn’t go back and the masses wouldn’t notice it being removed that much.

It became permanent as soon as he did it 😂 

[HawkHybrid]

governments change with the times.

otherwise we would still have executive order 6102

(forbidding americans to hoard gold)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102

notice how 'stalling economic growth' was used as a reason.

for those not blinded by the greed that monopoly brings, gold

backed currency stalling investment due to the inability of

access to gold can be a real problem.

 

some do like to dwell on government action that are anti gold

yet never mention any government action that are pro gold.

 

HH 

[GoldenPhil]

32 minutes ago, HawkHybrid said:

governments change with the times.

otherwise we would still have executive order 6102

(forbidding americans to hoard gold)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102

notice how 'stalling economic growth' was used as a reason.

for those not blinded by the greed that monopoly brings, gold

backed currency stalling investment due to the inability of

access to gold can be a real problem.

 

some do like to dwell on government action that are anti gold

yet never mention any government action that are pro gold.

 

HH 

Can you list some of the positive actions govt have taken re gold?

I guess one is that in EU/UK it is that bullion gold is tax free (although they hit you big with tax on silver and other PM. 

[HawkHybrid]

25 minutes ago, GoldenPhil said:

Can you list some of the positive actions govt have taken re gold?

I guess one is that in EU/UK it is that bullion gold is tax free (although they hit you big with tax on silver and other PM. 

 

Quote

The limitation on gold ownership in the U.S. was repealed after President Gerald Ford signed a bill legalizing private ownership of gold coins, bars and certificates by an act of Congress codified in Pub.L. 93–373^[1] which went into effect December 31, 1974.

they change it so americans can own gold again. it's a pro

that balances out a previous con. it's about balance, not

about favouring gold above all else.

 

HH

[GoldenPhil]

1 hour ago, HawkHybrid said:

 

they change it so americans can own gold again. it's a pro

that balances out a previous con. it's about balance, not

about favouring gold above all else.

 

HH

I never get excited about the government allowing me to do something.  I think I should be free in most things. To me that and the no tax thing is just returning things to normality after some crazy government overreach.  In China they actually advise the population to buy PM (last I knew). 

[MancunianStacker]

I was a bit bored so just checked the UK’s 🇬🇧 Gold reserves = 310 Tonnes.

That works out at just 10,934,928 (Ten Million+) ounces. Not enough for 1oz per person!

At £1,400 per oz, it’s worth 15,308,899,20 (Fifteen Billion+). The UK’s initial Covid-19 financial support response was £600Billion.

🇬🇧 National debt is about £2Trillion. So an oz of gold, to cover 100% of just the debt would/should be worth £182,900. Never mind the currency etc in the system.

Keep stacking guys. 👍🏻 

Note: Please feel free to check my maths, I’m on my 6th pint of lager today.

[MancunianStacker]

 

[MancunianStacker]

Jim Sinclair uses similar maths to myself and predicts a $50-$87k gold price in the next 5 years. He’s already predicted two gold spikes in the past (using the same formula) and used to set the price back in London back in the day!! 👍🏻 

[mr-dead]

crazy prices are always quoted as being 3-5 years away in a game of never ending goal post shifting.

 

[MancunianStacker]

1 hour ago, mr-dead said:

crazy prices are always quoted as being 3-5 years away in a game of never ending goal post shifting.

 

Yeah, I heard them 5-6 years ago when I started stacking but 5-6 years ago, £1,450 per oz physical was classed as crazy. 
 

I knew that unless there was either hyperinflation or a reset or both the “to the moon” prices would be unlikely, but we are closer to them than ever before with the economic knock on from the virus.

I’m still buying 😉 
 

 

[HawkHybrid]

51 minutes ago, MancunianStacker said:

Yeah, I heard them 5-6 years ago when I started stacking but 5-6 years ago, £1,450 per oz physical was classed as crazy.

 

£1450/toz was never classed as crazy, being a mere ~25% above the

all time high of ~£1200.

$50k/toz is a crazy 2400% above the all time high of ~$1930. we are

likely to hit $50/toz, but it's going to take a lot longer than 5 years to

get there. by comparison moving from $35 to $1930 (took 40 years to

rise 5400%).

(dropping the gold standard in 1971 was a reset for gold)

 

HH

Edited May 11, 2020 by HawkHybrid