Sixgun vs HawkHybrid

[goldking]

5 minutes ago, Pipers said:

 I keep on reading what goes up must come down and this is true to some extent, but I was buying when gold went through the dead years and into Browns bottom it will never get back to those prices! 

IMO it's a different game now with the bottom line 1000usd and that price look doubtful anytime I can see.   The central banks are creating money (printing money) faster than ever this is having the effect on currencies being weaker hence gold going higher.  The run for gold recently is because of the panic on the markets they want quality in times of fear.  

Who knows what will happen in this world of out of control central banks.  The price saw a big tumble at the start of the 2008 recession before going up like a rocket a few months later.  The current market activity is very closely mirroring what happened in 2008 so there's every chance we could see a repeat.  We only have to look at how far it dropped last Friday on the back of the stock market "crash" to perhaps give us an indication.  If the markets continue to nosedive over the coming weeks then it's likely it will drag down the PMs down with them, but if there's enough 'fear' to get people moving into safe haven assets there's every chance it could push the price higher.  I personally don't think we'll see $1k again but £1k is possible if the arse truly falls out of the markets.

What the BIS will do with their paper gold certificates is anyone's guess .

[HawkHybrid]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUJXnGT4JoI

 

worth watching especially at 13:00

 

HH

[sixgun]

i have watched the chap in iGold Advisors in the past but concluded he doesn't really know what he is talking about - if he did what is he still doing making these videos and not sitting on many millions of dollars?

i gather the focus of HH's post is on the GSR and the divergence of the nature of gold and silver (in his opinion)
i found the piece Andrew Maguire did in the latest Kinesis money video where he spoke about silver from the last Friday of February 2020. This was the Friday that the LBMA OTC options for silver expired. The Bank for International Settlements takes colossal positions in this market. 
One might ask why does the bank of banks take colossal positions in an electrical component market?
Maguire tells us that on that Friday to force price down 5 years of mined silver supply was sold into the Comex and LBMA OTC markets. Five years supply dumped into the market in one day. From the chart you can see there had been heavy selling in the days running up to that Friday.
He tells us there are 3 major trading banks who dominate the market.
The onslaught on silver coincided with a relatively much lesser onslaught on gold. The gold market is much bigger and more expansive - many more entities operate and so it is much harder to dominate.

So my questions would be - why would the bank of banks hold colossal positions in an electrical component market?
Why would virtually unfathomable amount of an electrical component be dumped into the market at the same time that the gold market was also being attacked?
Dumping such massive amounts of paper into a market is not about any sort of normal trading. (But we not uncommonly see it in precious metals).

The price was being forced down to the sweet spot of the BIS option contracts, not by the BIS but the controlling banks in the silver market. There was a coordinated take down in price. There was cooperation in a silver smash. This has happened many times before but the amount of paper silver needed on this occasion was unprecedented. 
Why would these banking entities get so involved in an electrical component?
And how would the price of an electrical component not be sent down to almost zero in these circumstances if this were simply an electrical component?
Why would the attack on an electrical component happen at the same time as an attack on gold?

Charts plot price action. Predictions from charts use recognised patterns of chart behaviour based on group psychology. What happened on that Friday is a demonstration of price management by a small group of very powerful entities in the paper silver market. The 5 years mined supply of silver doesn't exist, anything involving this doesn't reflect a normal market or anything even approaching a normally functioning market. It represents a rigged market and utter desperation.

It is actually quite astounding that the long end of this electrical component market soaked all of it up without price being sent to almost zero. It is getting harder and harder to smash the price of gold and this electrical component. For me if a market can remain standing after such an onslaught augers well for the future price of this electrical component.

[goldking]

This is not a silver thread.  Please take your silver conspiracy theories to a separate thread - there are plenty of them to choose from.

[sixgun]

i can't read your post goldking - i have blocked you - in part on the recommendation of other members - i note HH posted a video drawing readers' attention to the GSR - 

[HawkHybrid]

so igold doesn't know what he's talking about because he

cautions pm owners that the last time the gsr broke out

to the upside on rising gold prices it was short lived and

prices then went on to fall for many years.

history may or may not repeat or rhyme but he's basing his

analysis on historical facts.

@sixgun andrew maguire is a metals pumper, he has never

said a bad word about the metals. at least igold is honest

enough to say that there is an up part of the cycle and a

down part of the cycle.

 

history doesn't always make sense, history doesn't always

reward those that are right or good. history is a time that

has past, and as such what happened will be forever

sealed in time. history is reality.

 

HH

[sixgun]

12 minutes ago, HawkHybrid said:

 

@sixgun andrew maguire is a metals pumper, he has never said a bad word about the metals. 

HH

i agree Maguire is very enthusiastic - quite often overly enthusiastic - some people will class him as a pumper. He is an institutional precious metal wholesaler, so i'm not sure who he is pumping to but many will call him such. Irrespective of that he does know what is going on in the precious metals markets. If he says X contracts were sold they will have been and if that amounts to 5 years' of mined supply it will have been. i would rather not attack the man but deal with the facts. i presented the facts and asked questions. 

[Booky586]

16 minutes ago, HawkHybrid said:

so igold doesn't know what he's talking about because he

cautions pm owners that the last time the gsr broke out

to the upside on rising gold prices it was short lived and

prices then went on to fall for many years.

history may or may not repeat or rhyme but he's basing his

analysis on historical facts.

@sixgun andrew maguire is a metals pumper, he has never

said a bad word about the metals. at least igold is honest

enough to say that there is an up part of the cycle and a

down part of the cycle.

 

history doesn't always make sense, history doesn't always

reward those that are right or good. history is a time that

has past, and as such what happened will be forever

sealed in time. history is reality.

 

HH

History is the written record of past events, whether true or false.

[Oldun]

Might it not be appropriate, once again, to remember what this thread is about ? The Mods might have to take their big sticks out 😱

 

Gold Monitoring Thread £ GBP only

[HawkHybrid]

26 minutes ago, sixgun said:

i would rather not attack the man but deal with the facts.

 

igold presented his facts. your only gripe with his

facts is that they go against your prediction of

much higher prices within 5-10 years.

 

andrew maguire presents his facts, does he present

all of his facts including the ones that point to

possibly lower prices or does he not bother with

those 'irrelevant' facts?

 

I didn't say his facts wasn't true, I said his facts at

the height of 2011 would have lead you to believe it's

a good time to buy. that's what metal pumpers do.

there can only be one conclusion to their facts.

(because they never give you the whole story)

 

are you cherry picking which facts are true

because they support your bias?

 

HH

[HawkHybrid]

45 minutes ago, Booky586 said:

History is the written record of past events, whether true or false.

 

written history is the recording of past events.

history is what actually happened whether known

or not, written or not.

 

HH

[sixgun]

18 minutes ago, HawkHybrid said:

igold presented his facts. your only gripe with his facts is that they go against your prediction of much higher prices within 5-10 years.

andrew maguire presents his facts, does he present all of his facts including the ones that point to possibly lower prices or does he not bother with

those 'irrelevant' facts?

I didn't say his facts wasn't true, I said his facts at the height of 2011 would have lead you to believe it's a good time to buy. that's what metal pumpers do.

there can only be one conclusion to their facts.

(because they never give you the whole story) are you cherry picking which facts are true because they support your bias?

HH

i presented facts reported about the situation on the last Friday of last month and asked questions the reader might care to answer about the situation.

igold is a chartist and so presents chart related content and his opinion of what he thinks will happen to price on that basis. He is an American in America and so is prohibited from trading gold and silver outside the Comex market (i exclude the likes of the ETF's before i get picked up on this) - he has no insight into the physical markets, what goes on with the LBMA OTC markets, the 'dark' precious metals markets or the non-US - non-Comex markets in general. So he doesn't present the whole picture. He might possibly not even be aware of some of these elements. 
There is an accelerating collapse of the USD-Treasury complex - the Fed have lost control - the Exchange Stabilisation Fund have lost their grip. They may well not get that grip back and it will all spin out of control as the fiat system falls apart. This is something the pumpers have been talking about for over 10 years but of course it has been averted so they have been laughed at. They may be pushing services and the sale of precious metals but the essence of what they say has been correct. They make the mistake of giving plucked out of thin air timelines and prices. 
An analysis like igold does won't give you that information - it isn't needed for pure technical analysis. 
i'm not giving a 10 year timeline or 5 year timeline - i actually think it will be sooner than this and we will see a reset. 

[HawkHybrid]

43 minutes ago, sixgun said:

There is an accelerating collapse of the USD-Treasury complex

 

did you not see igold's chart of the treasury

bonds(usd) outperforming gold, silver, stocks etc.

during the drop in stocks? or is the flight to treasury

bonds a sign of the accelerating collapse of the usd?

(is this showing a weakening in faith in the usd when

facing a crisis?)

 

do you not accept that treasury bonds going up during

a crisis is proof of a flight to the usd for safety?

 

(it looks like igold might be presenting more of the

whole picture than those pushing that the collapse

of the usd is accelerating)

 

HH

[sixgun]

55 minutes ago, HawkHybrid said:

did you not see igold's chart of the treasury bonds(usd) outperforming gold, silver, stocks etc.

during the drop in stocks or is the flight to treasury bonds a sign of the accelerating collapse of the usd?

(is this showing a weakening in faith in the usd when facing a crisis?)

do you not accept that treasury bonds going up during a crisis is proof of a flight to the usd for safety?

HH

The traditional situation would be that US Treasuries were seen as 100% solid and safe. They are risk off assets. The problem is the USD is no longer King and is being increasingly rejected. There are those who would class the US Treasury bond as a junk bond.

As i have posted elsewhere Saudi has been selling oil to China in yuan since 2018. Aramco the Saudi oil giant has been issue bonds in yuan. There is a lot of trade outside the dollar now, much of this is b/c the US had weaponised the USD Swift system and sanctioned any country that dared to do anything it didn't agree with. The world is sick to death of this. Russia was sanctioned years ago - she has worked with China to set up systems which do not involve the dollar. More countries because of sanctions or just confidence of numbers are moving out of the dollar. Russia has refused to drop oil output beyond existing agreements - a drop in output which lift the price of oil. The low price is destroying the shale industry in the US, most of which never made a profit. Some people have wondered whether Russia is turning the screw in an attempt to finish the Petrodollar off. Perhaps Russia is.

The world is de-dollarising and that includes dumping Treasuries. Exactly how many China still has is not known - but Treasuries have been sold to fund the Belt and Road Initiative and buy gold. Foreigners are net sellers of Treasury bonds.

A clue as to what has been happening comes from the euro and yen. There are negative bonds in much of Europe and in Japan. Does that mean the currencies are strong in absolute terms? - so strong the bonds are so high they actually become negative yielding during their lifetime? The ECB has been buying and buying bonds like no tomorrow - 'whatever it takes' as Mario Draghi said. The Bank of Japan has virtually bought up the bond and stocks markets using decades of QE. Negative bond yields - negative interest rates - massive QE - the US is rapidly heading in that direction - not signs of strength; quite the opposite. 

Foreigners are moving out of the USD - we see the Dollar Index falling - so the dollar is weakening against other currencies. Despite multiple dumps of paper gold - we saw one this Friday - gold still is climbing. The gold:oil ratio is increasing which is a sign the Petrodollar is weakening. 

How could there be a crash in the Treasury yields (rising Treasury prices) if there is movement out of the dollar? If foreigners are de-dollarising and moving out of Treasuries? Someone is buying them. The Repo crisis is b/c there is insufficient liquidity in the banking system for banks to meet their reserve requirements and remain solvent. The Fed has had to step in to provide that liquidity - $billions every night. Part of the issue is the banks which underwrite Treasury auctions have been left holding Treasuries which draws down on cash liquidity. Treasuries are not selling like they used to. There has never been a failed Treasury auction, which is not credible - entities are buying to keep up appearances. The Fed has been buying up $billions of Treasuries and the dark entity - the Exchange Stabilisation Fund which was setup ostensibly to protect the dollar soaks up huge quantities. There are enormous quantities of Treasuries against countries like the Cayman Islands - some people say these are Treasuries siloed by the ESF. This could never be publicly declared as it would shatter confidence in the USD-Treasury complex.

There are trillions in bonds with next to zero and negative yields - confidence in currencies must be sky high. It isn't. Gold is hitting all time highs in many currencies - a sign currencies are weak. There have to be dump after dump of paper gold and silver to keep their dollar prices as low as possible. The system is coming apart.  

[Platinum]

A very well written post sixgun!

[AuricGoldfinger]

@sixgun and @HawkHybrid.

The sexual tension between you two is getting unbearable. Please book a hotel room and just end this flirting

 

[HawkHybrid]

8 hours ago, sixgun said:

The problem is the USD is no longer King and is being increasingly rejected.

 

the fact still remains that on the 28th feb, treasury

bonds beat gold in the flight to safety.

 

(all the other facts and theories that you posted

does not change this truth. it doesn't matter how

de-dollarising is taking place when faith in the

dollar is still stronger than faith in gold)

 

HH

[goldmember44]

2 minutes ago, HawkHybrid said:

 

the fact still remains that on the 28th feb, treasury

bonds beat gold in the flight to safety.

 

(all the other facts and theories that you posted

does not change this truth. it doesn't matter how

de-dollarising is taking place when faith in the

dollar is still stronger than faith in gold)

 

HH

That's because there are still traders with an unjustifiable trust in the dollar system, and/or they are trying to act "patriotic", often following orders. This can and probably will change with time.

[HawkHybrid]

8 hours ago, sixgun said:

The traditional situation would be that US Treasuries were seen as 100% solid and safe. They are risk off assets.

 

don't you mean are still seen as 100% solid and safe?

(beating a 6000 years traditional safe haven asset is

no mean feat)

 

HH

[HawkHybrid]

2 minutes ago, zhoutonged said:

There was an awful lot more faith in dot com stocks late 99 than there was in Gold.

 

what during a crisis safe haven bid?

 

HH

[HawkHybrid]

22 minutes ago, goldmember44 said:

That's because there are still traders with an unjustifiable trust in the dollar system, and/or they are trying to act "patriotic", often following orders. This can and probably will change with time.

 

the thing is, changing crisis behaviour is very

difficult and time consuming.

(this is why I do not believe that the dollar is

collapsing any time soon. I've never said the dollar

system was right. I've merely said there are reasons

to believe that it won't change any time soon.)

 

HH

[sixgun]

1 hour ago, zhoutonged said:

I admire your tireless patience Mr Gun... I really do.

i don't really post for HH's benefit - he gives me an opportunity to post some information that might not be voiced here otherwise.

HH is in another reality. A reality that existed at least before 2008, if indeed it ever really existed outside the controlled media government broadcast system. Until his reality gets hit by the runaway freight train i speak of he won't believe it exists. i can't reach him, perhaps it is time i stopped trying.
 

[Nick1368]

I’m with @sixgun in this debate .

[HawkHybrid]

9 minutes ago, sixgun said:

HH is in another reality. A reality that existed at least before 2008, if indeed it ever really existed outside the controlled media government broadcast system. Until his reality gets hit by the runaway freight train i speak of he won't believe it exists. i can't reach him, perhaps it is time i stopped trying.

 

my reality is if I'd bet on 28th feb on treasury bonds

I would have made money.

if you'd bet on gold during the same crisis safe haven

bid you'd have loss money.

who is it that is out of touch with reality?

 

HH

[HawkHybrid]

Just now, zhoutonged said:

You think thats what we've got now? LMAO

 

treasury bonds beat gold on friday 28th february

when there was a flight to safety.

it's a fact that's already happened.

 

HH