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Auctions are insane


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I have noticed lately a lot of auctions are ridiculous! These are prices paid today - dont forget you have to add 30% on top as buyers premium. I am pretty sure that these coins can be sourced way cheaper. 
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Even though the profile of auction buyers has changed somewhat in recent times, with quick eBay etc flippers more evident, most lots still go to traditional buyers such as coin dealers, antique/jeweller types and the more traditional private buyers.

I agree though, some prices paid are quite ridiculous.

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11 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

Even though the profile of auction buyers has changed somewhat in recent times, with quick eBay etc flippers more evident, most lots still go to traditional buyers such as coin dealers, antique/jeweller types and the more traditional private buyers.

I agree though, some prices paid are quite ridiculous.

I mean Krugerrand 1 oz were selling at £900+ before buyers premium. 

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I observed something similar a year ago looking for bullion for less than spot at auction. My conclusion then was rarely you get a good deal. Occasionally maybe but more often than not they go too high

 

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I know it's an historical precedent, but I've never understood the continuing practice of the buyer paying an auction fee on top of any winning bid. I actually think if they stopped this, auction houses would not only become busier, especially with online bidding, but they'd make more money in the long run.

Ordinary people, who would never ever have gone to an auction house, now have some knowledge of auction bidding through ebay and other similar sites. By using their model, especially in the lower end speciallity auctions, auction houses are missing a trick here.   

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My personal experience with auction houses is inline with this. I was super excited when I discovered The-Saleroom some years back and could bid online at multiple sales and auction houses. I must have taken time out to watch with intention of bidding on maybe 20 or so sales over a few months. In the end I didn't bid on anything because by the time the fees were added in the cost was pretty insane. I was looking at buying silver items for myself and was especially interested in getting stock for my business. I gave up after seeing items consistently sell well over what I'd pay on ebay or elsewhere - it just wasn't worth it.

Maybe I was just in it at a bad time or just looking for the wrong sort of bargains.

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13 minutes ago, HighlandTiger said:

I know it's an historical precedent, but I've never understood the continuing practice of the buyer paying an auction fee on top of any winning bid. I actually think if they stopped this, auction houses would not only become busier, especially with online bidding, but they'd make more money in the long run.

Ordinary people, who would never ever have gone to an auction house, now have some knowledge of auction bidding through ebay and other similar sites. By using their model, especially in the lower end speciallity auctions, auction houses are missing a trick here.   

Totally agree 

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It used to be just buyers premium, since the more established auction houses started taking it on both ends they all followed suite! Lose if you buy & lose if you sell.  Whats more annoying is the lack of margin vat registered auctioneers, so you end up paying tax on the entire value not the hammer.

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I have had a bit of luck with auctions recently - a couple online (non-Ebay) have resulted in some good buys. I picked up a Charles II sixpence and few Peace/Morgan Dollars last week. Even with the buyer premium the costs were well below the actual (and I am collecting these coins for a collection, so am prepared to pay over odds sometimes) value of the coins.

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4 hours ago, AndrewSL76 said:

I have had a bit of luck with auctions recently - a couple online (non-Ebay) 

What online auction place if not eBay... Gumtree? 

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7 hours ago, HighlandTiger said:

I actually think if they stopped this, auction houses would not only become busier, especially with online bidding, but they'd make more money in the long run.

my local auctioneer, who only gets a small number of coins which are saved for their collectors sale every two months, has recently become insanely busy.

Even though they charge over 20% at both ends, it's getting ridiculous. I took in some collectable porcelain type ornaments for my wife the other week, her's father's estate. I was told they would probably get around to unpacking and evaluating them in about 4 -5 weeks. The enormous room where i was asked to drop it off was almost full and I was told it had been completely empty just 3 days earlier!

They must be making a fortune.

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1 hour ago, AlL said:

What online auction place if not eBay... Gumtree? 

Now that WOULD be telling!

Only joking. Spread the love is what I say: https://www.biddr.ch/

Just watch out though as it goes super fast and it’s really important to note the numbers of the items you’re interested in and DON’T GO MAD...The credit is there so you can bid, but beware you WILL have to pay if you win, so don’t be ruled by adrenalin!!

Happy bidding!! 

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There is a lot of shilling that goes on at Auction houses (not the premium ones) lots of bidders get shilled at local Auctions and when you are not there you have absolutely no idea shill bidding has happened.  Even when you are there its hard to spot, one way to spot if it is going on is to check how many lots are sold for the bottom reserved price when there has only been 2 bidders; infact there has only been one bidder the auctioneer or the seller has driven the price up to the reserve price.   if this is happened to you and it is not that easy to spot you have been shilled out of money maybe hundreds of pounds!  Of course they the Auctioneer and the seller will pretend to be your friend to keep you going back to shill you more and more.  One more thing you will not know who the seller is unless someone else tells you, or you are in the Auction house the same time the seller is putting items in to sell.

If buying coins from a local Auction i would recommend photographing the coin at the viewing as you will be bidding on that coin in the condition you viewed it as.  I also recommend being at the Auction if possible, when you collect the coin (if you obtained it) you will need to examine it there so that includes weighing, comparing with the photo to make sure the coin has not been swapped.Also do not buy a coin you do not know anything about. 

I will also say the amount of Gothic Crowns in local Auctions is incredible, at first i just didn't buy them because i wasn't sure then before i bought one it dawned on me they must be fake otherwise they would be sold at one of the major Auction houses in London, they are all sold as gothic crowns they fetch decent prices.  The next most popular crown is the George crown that go for ridicules prices, those to are fakes but are sold as crowns and the same with 1887 1889 etc.          

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19 hours ago, Pipers said:

There is a lot of shilling that goes on at Auction houses (not the premium ones) lots of bidders get shilled at local Auctions and when you are not there you have absolutely no idea shill bidding has happened.  Even when you are there its hard to spot, one way to spot if it is going on is to check how many lots are sold for the bottom reserved price when there has only been 2 bidders; infact there has only been one bidder the auctioneer or the seller has driven the price up to the reserve price.   if this is happened to you and it is not that easy to spot you have been shilled out of money maybe hundreds of pounds!  Of course they the Auctioneer and the seller will pretend to be your friend to keep you going back to shill you more and more.  One more thing you will not know who the seller is unless someone else tells you, or you are in the Auction house the same time the seller is putting items in to sell.

If buying coins from a local Auction i would recommend photographing the coin at the viewing as you will be bidding on that coin in the condition you viewed it as.  I also recommend being at the Auction if possible, when you collect the coin (if you obtained it) you will need to examine it there so that includes weighing, comparing with the photo to make sure the coin has not been swapped.Also do not buy a coin you do not know anything about. 

I will also say the amount of Gothic Crowns in local Auctions is incredible, at first i just didn't buy them because i wasn't sure then before i bought one it dawned on me they must be fake otherwise they would be sold at one of the major Auction houses in London, they are all sold as gothic crowns they fetch decent prices.  The next most popular crown is the George crown that go for ridicules prices, those to are fakes but are sold as crowns and the same with 1887 1889 etc.          

I used to go to an auction place and buy antiques and once decided on getting some coins in one lots there were some see coins in there including the steal penny with the rest of the wartime silver coins in a set..I won, I paid and I found so e thieving scumbag has pocketed some of the coins when they were on show...I still paid as my value was higher then my bid but I got screwed by some on display in an open bowl for tea leaves to sort though and cherry pick..had some nice Indian heads, all gone.

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18 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

you should see what goes on at agricultural auctions, especially land!

Fixing prices there both high and low...farmers can be some thieves when they get the chance, not all of them but enough to poison an auction, I say that with the fact that members of my family are farmers back in England.

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3 hours ago, DarkChameleon said:

Fixing prices there both high and low...farmers can be some thieves when they get the chance, not all of them but enough to poison an auction, I say that with the fact that members of my family are farmers back in England.

I was good friends with an auctioneer who worked for a small market town auction house in Yorkshire a fair few years ago; standard livestock stuff but did machinery and land as well. Some colourful tales that's for sure.

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1 hour ago, sovereignsteve said:

I was good friends with an auctioneer who worked for a small market town auction house in Yorkshire a fair few years ago; standard livestock stuff but did machinery and land as well. Some colourful tales that's for sure.

I think I know the place you're talking about, I lived in one in England in the north, both agriculture and household auctions and wall to wall antique shops in the north of England

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  • 4 weeks later...

  This is what i posted a few weeks ago.  see below!

On 20/06/2019 at 21:14, Pipers said:

There is a lot of shilling that goes on at Auction houses (not the premium ones) lots of bidders get shilled at local Auctions and when you are not there you have absolutely no idea shill bidding has happened.  Even when you are there its hard to spot, one way to spot if it is going on is to check how many lots are sold for the bottom reserved price when there has only been 2 bidders; infact there has only been one bidder the auctioneer or the seller has driven the price up to the reserve price.   if this is happened to you and it is not that easy to spot you have been shilled out of money maybe hundreds of pounds!  Of course they the Auctioneer and the seller will pretend to be your friend to keep you going back to shill you more and more.  One more thing you will not know who the seller is unless someone else tells you, or you are in the Auction house the same time the seller is putting items in to sell.

If buying coins from a local Auction i would recommend photographing the coin at the viewing as you will be bidding on that coin in the condition you viewed it as.  I also recommend being at the Auction if possible, when you collect the coin (if you obtained it) you will need to examine it there so that includes weighing, comparing with the photo to make sure the coin has not been swapped.Also do not buy a coin you do not know anything about. 

I will also say the amount of Gothic Crowns in local Auctions is incredible, at first i just didn't buy them because i wasn't sure then before i bought one it dawned on me they must be fake otherwise they would be sold at one of the major Auction houses in London, they are all sold as gothic crowns they fetch decent prices.  The next most popular crown is the George crown that go for ridicules prices, those to are fakes but are sold as crowns and the same with 1887 1889 etc.          

  As you can see, i had no idea about your coin or the said youtube video that  #scottishstackerdave (who i do not know) put out, but i do have experiences with Gothic Crowns at Auctions and people being shilled.  Indeed i have been shilled in the past and its very hurtful when you find out that so called friends have been tricking (fooling 'conning') you, giving  you the  wrong advise in a friendly way while pumping the price. Shill bidding is illegal in the UK , EU .  I think its very bad form what you did driving the price up on ebay, you even admitted it in your post that you said you did 'try getting the price up' or words to that effect.   You should be ashamed of yourself.

You then had my posts removed and the thread removed. I looked at the rules and ok it was most probably because it was in the sales section.  This is not in the sales section it is the general precious metals .  I am responding to your comment to me.    

 

 

 

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On 19/06/2019 at 12:37, sovereignsteve said:

Even though the profile of auction buyers has changed somewhat in recent times, with quick eBay etc flippers more evident, most lots still go to traditional buyers such as coin dealers, antique/jeweller types and the more traditional private buyers.

I agree though, some prices paid are quite ridiculous.

I was chatting to a small coin dealer and one of his regular sovereign buying customers, at a tiny antiques fair at the weekend. The dealer was moaning that he was struggling to find replacement stock of sovereigns as he was selling out too quickly at £320+. Neither he, nor his regular customer had heard of Hatton Garden Metals, or Atkinsons. They know now 

So you are right, there are a vast number of buyers out there who don't buy via the internet.  

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1 hour ago, Pipers said:

  This is what i posted a few weeks ago.  see below!

  As you can see, i had no idea about your coin or the said youtube video that  #scottishstackerdave (who i do not know) put out, but i do have experiences with Gothic Crowns at Auctions and people being shilled.  Indeed i have been shilled in the past and its very hurtful when you find out that so called friends have been tricking (fooling 'conning') you, giving  you the  wrong advise in a friendly way while pumping the price. Shill bidding is illegal in the UK , EU .  I think its very bad form what you did driving the price up on ebay, you even admitted it in your post that you said you did 'try getting the price up' or words to that effect.   You should be ashamed of yourself.

You then had my posts removed and the thread removed. I looked at the rules and ok it was most probably because it was in the sales section.  This is not in the sales section it is the general precious metals .  I am responding to your comment to me.    

 

 

 

Maybe tag the person you are referring to? Otherwise looks like you are talking to me lol. I have never owned a gothic crown 👑 

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