Martlet

2 hours ago, Bumble said:

@Mildred"Preventing any possible deliveries" does make sense. You have entered into a long contract, i.e. a contract to purchase physical metal. If you don't sell or cancel this contract, then the counterparty will deliver this metal to you, or rather, to your broker, since the contract is probably in a nominee account. Since your broker does not want their entrance lobby to be filled up with crates of metal belonging to their clients, it is part of their terms of service that you close your position in advance of the completion date.

Yes, its a simple typo.  Put a comma after "deliveries" and the sentence makes sense.  

12 minutes ago, TheBeast said:

I really don't know if the coins are worth the investment. The coins base are silver i think the ruthenium is just some decoration. (negligible amount) just like the gold.
But there's a site with rare metals bullions. Most of that metals are used in the industry.
https://nl-rwmmint.glopalstore.com/collections/all?page=3 
 

Excellent, i've been looking for something like that. 

10 hours ago, Groundup said:

I'm surprised they arent aware of the affiliate programme.

@Martlet What's the affiliate program

It's here, https://kinesis.money/en/referrals/.  

7 hours ago, sixgun said:

An interesting video made by some of the Kinesis ambassadors - these people aren't paid by Kinesis and as far as i'm aware get no kick backs [well i haven't had any].

I'm surprised they arent aware of the affiliate programme.

9 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

Yes it's called the Laffer curve. a little controversial and theoretical but IIRC we were supposed to be at the peak of the curve when Brown was in office. I believe taxes are higher now than even during the height of the Labour era.

The next step to try and persuade the public to pay even more taxes and not evade is to sell the idea of a NHS tax, who could refuse to pay that?

 

The Laffer curve is only controversial if you call it by that name amongst left wing politicans.  If you call it a supply/demand curve no one bats an eyelid, that's essentially what it is.  The trouble is, its bang on the money.  Recent examples, the UK haven't had petrol duty prices for years because they reached the peak, and the top rate 50% income tax return less revenue than when it was reduced to 45%.  UK tax as % of GDP is down from peak-Brown, though we are above the lowest tax take of Brown era - austerity is a lie. 

23 hours ago, Bumble said:

Andrew Maguire doesn't give any details...

Well quite, we dont know if this concerns redeemable bonds as noted, unallocated or allocated holdings, if a outright refusal or requiring some time for withdrawal.  Into this information vacuum much speculation follows.

The interesting one is that its prelude to a bank bail in.  This is disingenuous as bail-in relates to cash depositors and bond holders both being creditors of the bank, so can find their credit used to shore up the balance sheet.  Allocated gold does not belong to the bank, the owner is not a creditor.  To take this gold would be introducing confiscation.

3 minutes ago, sixgun said:

@Martlet i realise you do not trust or believe in Kinesis and so in your reality it is dodgy. End of story.

The KVT is crowd funding. If you get a venture capitalist company involved they have a lot of say and you concentrate power with the 'beast'.  Kinesis has chosen to take the crowd funding route. What others do is not important. They are raising money - they are spreading the base, more people are getting involved.  They have sufficient to be able to do everything necessary. It is a success. The route taken is successful. Yes one could start off very tiny and grow - or not. When there is plenty of resources in a worldwide vaulting system, you can blast off hard. This is the route they have chosen to taken.

Its true I was skeptical, though have come round to the concept of the KAU itself.  I remain suspicious of the path they are taking, and there is little to gain trust when they have been less than transparent about the delay.  Bottom line is, i'd rather keep the $ in my pocket to buy actual KAU rather than fund the startup.

29 minutes ago, sixgun said:

And how do you finance the concern? The KVT guarantees the capital to do everything to make it work. The staff, the negotiations, the wallet design, integration into the blockchain, the martketing, development of the platforms, fees, development of the Kinesis bank, the Kinesis commercial centre for online merchants selling through the Kinesis payment system, there are fiat and crypto reserves also involved.

ICOs are launching every week raising $10-30m, only a fraction of which is for those purposes (the rest being the currency itself usually).  If Kinesis have no problem with funding, they should be able to find VC funding for startup.  You also highlight another issue, that the wallet, exchanges, blockchain integration are apparently not yet started.  So they'll have a 4 month window to do quite a lot of technical implementation, which many blockchain startups will take up to a year to deliver (or not, as so often the case). 

Quote

When Kinesis currency begins to be issued the gold and silver must be in the ABX vaults. Kinesis must have already sourced this, paid for it, moved it into the vaults. Only then will the Kinesis currency be created as the minter buys the metal.

I can see why this is necessary, thats partially what i'm refering to, the funds are to prime the market.  So they buy $200m of gold (not 50t by long way) to have on hand and funds for market making and liquidity.  The question is cant they do this with a base of $20m and grow? Or even just $2m?  Isn't the whole objective to buy new gold on ABX exchange and commit it to KAU as you go?  Instead people are paying to fill the vaults with gold which no one actually holds any title to, on the premise people will then buy it from there rather than elsewhere. 

Kinesis could launch without the need for this pre-pre-ICO funding round.  The KVT is not, or should not, be a dependency to create the systems for minting, deposits, buying, selling of gold back tokens.  The $300m is unnecessary, other than to run a large market making operation to support trading at the start.  And lack of transparency around the reasons for delay should receive far more scrutiny than it is.

Delays happen, I believe there was already one?  To pushing back another 6 months means funding, technology or compliance is not going to plan, but they've previously said all those things are OK 

1 hour ago, Sal said:

Andres also said "Other people have been handling correspondences on behalf of our Web site." No reply to my comment  to him that someone else got stiffed on their coins and received the same German coin book that I did. 

Have to chip in to note this massive red flag.  Someone acting on their behalf are either an agent or employee and still their responsibility.   So far, it could all be a misunderstanding, poor communication, victim of a customs scam (as it appear a few pages ago).  To deflect on to mysterious others like this is deeply suspicious. 

Yep, thats it basically, a bribe for people to join your Telegram channel to boost the numbers.  Not uncommon for cryptocurrencies in earlier phase as they are trying to make a name.  I found it rather ironic.  The regulars are making a good effort to try and engage and discuss the project, i dont think they realise the calibre of people chasing airdrops aren't going to be investing in a $1000 token.  They're all about the freebies. 

$100k would be better spent on some marketing puff pieces and SEO.  Kinesis has such poor internet presence, a search mostly brings up an older project by the same name.  

Interesting comments in Telegram overnight about the life cycle of a coin.  Revenue can only be made from those coins in circulation, why on earth would the destroyed coins be entitled to yield from them?  Open to abuse if one can mint new coins, redeem/destroy them and mint them again, receive income in perpetuity. 

I've been following the Kinesis telegram for some time and there appears to be an elephant in the room, concerning the dual token nature of the offering.  Its been mentioned in terms of how to handle as a user and a bit waved away.  Bigger question from a technical point of view is how they will bridge between KVT ERC20 tokens and KCx currency tokens on Stellar, so that the yield from one system goes to the other securely.  Its not even mentioned in their white paper so will be interesting to see how they'll do it given the time line. 

23 minutes ago, 999magnum said:

2018. Can’t wait for the 2019 ?

 

What series is that?  

2 hours ago, caloundracats said:

Finding that jurisdiction isn't as easy as once was as everyone seems to be cracking down on such places. Any suggestions?

There's a lot of talk about crackdown on offshore finance, but its just talk.  They cant really start telling sovereign nations how, what or who to tax.  Really they are just forcing these small nations into opening up information sharing, no more hiding funds offshore, it is to be traceable and transparent.  If you setup accounts and corporations there, you may be able to take advantage of tax efficiencies. 

2 hours ago, sixgun said:

Kinesis is an Isle of Man corporation. Profits made outside the IoM are tax free. The advantage for an investor in KVT's like me is that when profits are distributed there is more for investors.

There may well be a larger dividend for the Kinesis corporation to pass on to token holders.  I was noting that the investors (typical, without offshore arrangements) wont have direct tax benefits from the company being based offshore.  Any transaction through the Kinesis systems would be considered a tax event and liable for tax for UK residents.  Being based in Isle of Man is tax efficient for the corporation, not for the clients/customers. 

7 hours ago, sixgun said:

Well the Kinesis company is registered in the Isle of Man so profit made outside the IoM is tax free.  So the profits held within the company are tax free. i am not sure how HMRC views cryptos. 

The official HMRC line on crypto is that its taxed the same as any other assets.  So capital gains tax rules apply on profits made from holding cryptos, which is nice and simple.  There is a complication that the tax is calculated when you change from one asset to another, so if one sells Bitcoin for Ethereum that counts as a taxable event, not only trading Bitcoin to £.  HMRC doesn't care where the tax event occurred, so if its on an exchange in UK, Europe, US, Singapore, tax is the due if you are resident in the UK. 

Upshot of this is trades through a Isle of Man exchange are going to attract CGT if you are in the UK.  The method to avoid tax is for the assets to be owned through an offshore shell company, then tax is applied under that jurisdiction and you only pay tax to HMRC when bringing profit back onshore. 

(not professional tax advice of course, just view from research on the subject for months.)

18 minutes ago, sixgun said:

The KVT's are blockchain shares in the business. What backs shares in Ebay or Visa or so many companies?

Nothing but the prospect of their future capital gain.  This project is supposed to be about being backed by gold. 

Every time I see Kinesis pitched here, I like the concept but cant get past two major issues.  Firstly the dual tokens, a token offered to raise funds separate from the actual gold back tokens.  What's backing the KVT, and why so much?   Major tech driven projects are asking for $20-30m and this project asks for 10 times that.  Secondly, the claims for yield are so high, I don't see how they'll achieve the predicted volume of $850bn in year one, with impact on projections for future years.  Then consider fees must come from the holders/ themselves, so they'll need to be trading amongst themselves.  A lot.  If it was a straight bullion for crypto offering without the yield claims, it would look a lot more sensible. 

1 hour ago, Elements said:

There’s 7 different 1887 full sovereigns. That could be a challenge getting all those. Dangerous path though, where does it end!

Collecting 1888?

Why 1887 though?

18 hours ago, JunkBond said:

Saw this on the Atkinsons site and took a punt, 1996 half sov, (proof obviously). No Box or COA, bullion price. Could have been worse nick.

 

Thank you so much.  I knew i'd seen this, but couldnt find again and thought i'd imagined it.

15 minutes ago, PansPurse said:

I think the "one ounce fine gold" and "Britannia" just plonked beside the trident is a bit lazy, but otherwise it looks great.

Yes, i really like except the lack of thought.  Too late now ofcourse, but you'd have thought they could put "1 oz 999 fine gold" or silver round the edge, and i dont need to be told its a Britannia.

On 1/9/2018 at 15:54, metallica73 said:

My first of any QB series... from Silvergoldbull, paid for with LTC

 

Thats what im after, silvergoldbull didnt have this last time I looked.  How did the LTC tx go?