Mcgrimes

4 minutes ago, sixgun said:

True if you hold until redemption you will get the issue price. If you buy 10 year Gilts right now you will get 4.06%. That's locked in. If the issue yield was 2% then potentially there is a 100% capital gain at maturity. i see UK inflation according to RPI is 12.6%. So it isn't keeping up. If you need to sell out before maturity and interest rates have risen then you will be looking at capital losses.

With Kinesis you sell the gold on the Kinesis Exchange. You sell to whoever is buying, it is like any exchange. It might be me who buys. There are market makers. The buy and sell transaction fee is 0.22%. This is slightly offset by the velocity yield you will get for having traded. 
i posted a video the other day where a friend of mine bought a phone on the internet, bought milk and bread, sweets and dog food in the shops on the virtual debit card he is involved in beta testing. So it is being used as currency right now in the UK which is somewhere with poor fiscal policies. If you can buy it with a debit card then you can buy it with Kinesis.

So my point is gold is money and there are ways to spend it just like cash. Cash has lost 12.6% of its purchasing power this year. Personally i see crypto as gambling - i see most of them going to nothing at some point.

Your KAU isn’t gold, it’s a certificate of ownership. You’re not spending gold, you’re selling your right to a portion of gold to someone who transfers Fiat to your seller, for a fee! Have you considered Nexo?

Gold has lost 20% this year which makes it weaker than the pound. 

i wouldn’t expect inflation to be double digits forever - the whole purpose of rising rates is to arrest inflation. 

 Don’t forget that KAU, existing on a blockchain, is a cryptocurrency that represents ownership of gold. And blockchain is not infallible, so holding KAU is a risk that is rewarded by a portion of Kinesis profits.

And to be clear, I actually like this system of ownership - I think the shares market should be operated on a blockchain and let run 24/7!

13 minutes ago, sixgun said:

What are institutions locking into to get 5% APR?
If you are talking about bonds - then you should know bonds are in a bear market. They were in a bull market since around the mid 1980's - now they are in a bear market. i saw Mario from Maneco64 say the bond bear market will last until the mid 2030's. Mario used to be a City bond trader. That being the case there will be crushing capital losses in bonds which aren't even yielding enough to cover inflation. 

Gold is money. Even the Bank of England calls gold 'commodity money'.
https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/KnowledgeBank/what-is-money
Gold is money and everything else is credit - JP Morgan said this and he was right. You cannot print money, only create more credit - that's currency.

Investing is long term. Futures are short term - if you look at a lot of commodity ETF's they don't perform that well, this is because they invest in futures in which the time premium erodes over time so their value as compared with spot doesn't do as well. They are fine for trading but not strictly investing.

The Global South for sure see gold as money - it is cultural. They have seen their own currencies inflate away to nothing whilst the gold they hold has held its value.
BRICS will introduce a commodity currency - gold is the major component. 
https://fintechs.fi/2022/07/25/brics-nations-plan-to-create-a-new-international-reserve-currency/
China has had a gold trade note for several years now. https://www.gold-eagle.com/article/gold-trade-note-sighted
China is trading oil with the Petro-Yuan contracts convertible to gold on the Shanghai Gold Exchange. 

Cash has become trash. Gold is becoming the go to - the alpha and omega. 
You can get a yield on gold - i for sure get a yield on my gold held inside the Kinesis Money System. i can trade it, save it with a yield and spend it on a debit card. 
Gold has entered the 21st century on blockchain tracks.

If you hold a bond to maturity, then there are no capital losses (assuming purchased below PAR). Bear markets present opportunity. For what it’s worth, I hold some PAXG in Nexo at 7% APY. Kinesis charges a transaction on purchases (I believe), which covers you selling your gold to an intermediary and then using the cash to pay for your product. Gold is not money; it may be used as a currency in areas with poor fiscal policies, but then so is farm stock. 

As I say, I like gold, but it doesn’t yield. Your gold holding in kinesis entitles you to a share in transaction fees on the platform. I looked into Kinesis but decided it wasn’t for me. Though I was interested in the physical redemption side.

honestly speaking, I think cash is king at the minute - I think there’ll be some bargains to be had when everyone feels higher rates on their mortgages, utility bills and food price increases. Gold has no comparable utility.

Long term, yes, gold is a great investment vehicle in a diversified portfolio. But I’m bearish in the near term on many things including gold. Worth noting gold has dropped about 20% in the past few months, so the market is certainly bearish.

5 minutes ago, sixgun said:

But the handful of coins bought by people like us is just a handful of coins. There are entities out there buying tonnes of it. Imagine 1.4 billion Chinese digging into their pockets for a few bits of gold. Imagine 1.4 Indians doing the same. Many of the right minded central banks are buying gold. Russia and China continue to accumulate thousands of tonnes. Russia dropped the sales tax on gold this year to encourage citizens to buy more. Physical demand is huge. That most of the people on your street haven't got a clue about gold just shows that decades of brainwashing works for 75% of people. Thank God you are in the other 25%.

I think gold will lag behind as interest rates begin to rise further. I think institutions be be more inclined to lock in at 5% apr rather than chase gold which has an annual fee to store.

I don’t think gold is analogous to money, as mentioned further up - not any more than any other commodity is at least. 

im here because I like gold and hold some in my portfolio, and whilst I want it to shine in the upcoming short term, I don’t think it will compared to other asset classes.

Who knows how to invest in grain/wheat/food futures?

Bear case - price of everything is increasing, but the market is in a downturn and wages aren’t increasing inline with cost of living, thus less money to spend on precious metals.

Interest rates increasing, thus allowing for higher returns on cash savings, when gold sits there looking pretty without returning anything

Anybody want to send me a referral link?

4 hours ago, katyc said:

The stock at year end (also known as "closing stock" is seen as a a sale in a way. So if you have 10k of unsold silver and gold left at year end (which may have, for example, retail value of 15k) then the left over stock COST (10k) is added to your turnover, hence taxed on. Harsh isn't it 😖.

However the good news is that following financial year has "opening stock" where it is deducted (so it's balanced back out and you'd get a tax saving the same as the tax you paid).

So you have 10k of stock left that's taxed at 19% corporation tax at year end. But it's seen as a minus at the opening of the following year so you get that tax paid back (let's say the next year end you have 12k of stock. It would be taxed less the 10k from last year so then you're only paying tax on 2k the next year). I hope that makes sense. Tough one to explain 😆 

Makes sense, but on the cash basis of accounting you pay for expenses as they happen, so my understanding was that monitoring of stock levels isn’t necessary? 
for example, I’d imagine a plumber wouldn’t keep stock of his pipe elbows.

 I’m pretending to be under the vat threshold, if that matters

What’s the case if you’re trading as a sole trader? Can you consider purchases as an expense and then sales as an income? But I’m the cash basis of accounting, will this hammer your profits?

 What happens if you never sell the bullion in subsequent years?

Sovereigns - low premium buying and typically higher sale values (low spread)

I love 1g bars, but I like to be able to feel the product which means I don’t get the full enjoyment of them being carded/sealed.

And then, the card takes up a lot of space, there are a lot of forgeries out there and they, generally, do not retain their resale value.

I one struck gold (pun intended at HGM) when I ordered some 5g bars at competitive cards, and received some Perth mint carded.

On 11/07/2021 at 15:13, B33TR00T said:

I'm strongly attracted to the 1.25% less premium on Brits (at the lowest volume)...

The kicker for me is the frequency at which I can buy, let's say it's either (x2 sov / 30days) or (x1 brit / 60 days) - if on day 45 gold has increased by 10% since your last purchase, with sovs you have already locked in 2 at a lower price on day 30, with brits you still have 15 days of potential further increase... of course there's also the bearish version of this argument to consider but what fool in shorting gold right now?

True, 4 coins or 1 coin?

i love me some fractional silver - if I won the lottery I’d bathe in 1/10ounce silver coins

14 hours ago, pricha said:

Well they are 24K v 22K . So a  1/4 oz Britannia  is 1/4 oz of pure gold . A 7.9 gram sovereign is 7.32 gram fine gold.   Slightly more confusing .  So from a purely stacking point of view a Britannia would make more sense. 

I’m not certain that makes sense, you pay for the weight of gold so the fact one is 22k has little significance.

 For me it’s all about whatever is cheapest per gram

Worth 15k on the basis that...... 😆

On 23/05/2021 at 20:47, vacancies said:

Coming up with an error message. Others getting the same?

Missed them, gutted!

12 hours ago, vacancies said:

Must be a pain replacing the prices on those cards every single day.

 

The brit looks like it was competitive too.

The gold bars were about 2% cheaper than Bairds

Sovereigns at £323.99 at Costco Manchester. Better rate than most online retailers, certainly when only buying one or two

16 hours ago, DaKine said:

I bought the bullion gold on pre-sale. Much cheaper, and not far off bullion value....

You’re lucky, resellers have got a 5-8% markup.

think I’ll pass on this one!

23 hours ago, PJRay said:

I thought exactly the same thing. I noticed their postage costs had doubled since the summer and thought I wouldn't bother for a few sovs.

I also noticed an update to their delivery t&c's that concerned me. Is this always been a thing?

I’ve not used Bairds since a package went missing and they ignored my email - turns out they sent it to an old address that was removed from my account, and the new owners dropped the package off at my parents across the road. Also, every gold bar in that pack had a damaged security case (opaque at the bends, easily opened with a finger nail). Never again.

From memory, you don’t get to see the delivery price until after you commit to an order?

30 minutes ago, BullionBuyer said:

I don't know of many other things, other than gold,  that can still have a store of value after 2000 years and where the real value of that has been maintained. Surely it is this property that makes gold 'magical' over all other metals.

The USD is a fiat currency that has lost 95% of its real value over the past 100 years or so. Only gold has maintained its real value over this time. 

 

I think I need some figures to back what you are saying, especially when it comes to ‘true value’. Please look at other metals as well

Don't forget about land/property as a store of value.

3 minutes ago, MancunianStacker said:

The US Dollar has been the world reserve currency for a long time and yes the margins are better at most BDCs around the world but it is still Fiat currency. It doesn’t store value. In fact it loses value every day it isn’t spent.

Gold/Silver are stores of value in that they cannot be created out of thin air and there is also a finite amount of them in the Earth. A similar thing can be said for BitCoin but the problem with crypto’s is that anyone can create a new Crypto at any time and also create as many coins as they like at ICO stage and make themselves Billionaires over night.

Exactly my point - USD is a currency, gold is a store of wealth.

People here claim gold is a currency purely to promote it and validate their own ideology. Yes, you can barter with gold just as you can with any asset, but it isn’t a currency; it once was, however.

Cue people posting links to websites claiming it’s a ‘kind of’ currency. 

Bitcoin as a store of wealth is a non-sense; something that volatile is the opposite of wealth.
 

1 minute ago, BullionBuyer said:

No you can't - have you ever tried to exchange base metal for fiat currency in another country. You can however with gold and silver which are recognised as having a store of value and being accepted as a form of money.

I’ve never tried to exchange metals for money in another country, but I assure you that scrap yards exist internationally.

My point is that just because you admire gold, doesn’t give it magical properties amongst other stores of value. 

Id argue the only universal currency is the US Dollar as it is recognised pretty much everywhere. You can take it to most countries and exchange it for gold, oil and even their local fiat. I bet you’d get a better spread as well

Just now, GoldenPhil said:

I like the logic where in a world where currencies no longer have any value and you have to use PM to buy anything at all that there will be an over supply of chocolate fudge. 

In that instance, the question is: which is the currency, the gold or the fudge?

i like to imagine getting paid in fudge! Should we start a crypto where each unit is backed by a physical bar of Cadbury’s fudge? (Cheap fudge)

but, the true value of gold/fudge is what people are willing to pay for it - forget people’s estimates

31 minutes ago, silvernewbie said:

Its pretty obvious what he was referring to, this being a gold thread doesnt mean every comment will be about gold and if you knew prices no one can afford to buy bulk 1kg Gold bars unless you are Bill Gates

This is a gold deals thread, every post should be about gold!

Whats going on with these deals threads????

10 minutes ago, silenceissilver said:

But this is about gold keeping it's value, whereas buying a house for 3 ounces is much more than that, it's an enormous increase of gold's purachasing power. That's two different things. We all know gold gets you through hyperinflation, that's not the question. The question is, will there be a huge, short time spike of gold's purchasing power

In times like this, investors may flock to gold pushing its value even higher - I think there will be?

Gold prices would likely fall it everyone loses their job and has to dip into savings, whether this is cash savings, stock investments or physical assets

28 minutes ago, MancunianStacker said:

When people realise that their £600 in the bank can no longer buy a decent TV they will start to look for an alternative to cash savings or spend it. This could start pushing prices up as demand for stuff goes up and sellers can still sell at a higher price. It will also push physical gold prices up.

all prices will rise due to inflation, not just gold. This is assuming people still get paid as opposed to redundancies

Physical Gold is a useless currency, it’s not divisible and the spread is too large. Imagine trying to buy a 15p bar of fudge using gold 

‘that’ll be 0.0036g please, but we only offer 97% spot value’

You can exchange most metals in all countries - gold just has a higher value per unit weight than most