dangelo

It's about to rally $1.34/oz over the last couple if days to $24.38 when news gets out wearing a face mask is like trying to keep a fart in your pants. Lol.. 😛

It's marked twice with an identical stamp which is weird and unusual.  It's not British, because as far as I know it would have a purity and makers mark and year letter, but this has only two components.  At a guess, you could start looking up non-UK marks for a match and it would help if you had any other clues where the ring came from.

If you put it in fire and it then reads "Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul" ...

Then you could be in great danger and I'd not recommend wearing the ring.

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/alnwick-auctions/catalogue-id-alnwic10098/lot-1c93f173-0e4f-4341-a572-ae0000dd644d#lotDetails

I wonder if it's legit or not.  

https://en.numista.com/forum/topic72026.html

Not my cup of tea anyway - I prefer the regular Pistrucci George and Dragon crowns although I appreciate many people would love a rare coin.

Market prices seem unrealistic / manipulated but that's not new.  Massive inflation is coming and the best hedge is gold and silver to retain / preserve wealth.  But the problem I see now is so many people are (foolishly in my opinion) putting money into digital pyramid schemes (ponzi) called cryptocurrency.  I think the move into this intangiable "currency" is surpressing the price rises in gold and silver.  Long story short, it's going to rise but right now the media are also downplaying the truth and severity of the inflation globally.  So we will see a similar price to what it is right now.  Only when everyone realizes the true situation will it skyrocket, but like I said, most people are just reading FT and watching CNN so they won't get it until it's too late. 

So USD 24.38 at the close of business, last day of this year

Ahaa.. some of the last QE2 coins appearing...

Some really good points and well explained, thanks to everyone

One part that we can control (myself included) is to buy lower premium silver to pull down the overall %'s in the stack and also to avoid buying new silver which has 20% on it.  If I can find several kilos of 2nd hand bars at < 8% over spot that will help bring down the overall averages for sure!  I also like the idea of adding more vintage silver coins with lower premiums but worry they will be difficult to liquidate back to cash sometime after they are inherited after I die next year.

2 hours ago, ArgentSmith said:

Cost... VAT + manufacture + transport etc. These should be reflected somewhat/mostwhat in the secondary market but for some reason newbies look at the spot price.

Yup but that can't explain why the same isn't true for gold?  You can find gold coins at like a handfull or two of a % above spot, but silver no chance.

Ok so I have these stats for gold prices paid vs current spot price:

And these stats for silver - likewise prices paid vs current spot price today:

I know new UK silver has 20% VAT, but most of my items are not bought new.  Even so, if I take out the 20% the average % paid over spot would still be 56.92% for silver.  Another factor is premium stuff.  I do have some proof coins but the majority are bullion.

Questions for discussion:

1. Why is silver so expensive?  Does it cost lots more to mine, refine and mint than gold?
2. Why is silver so expensive? Is this all premiums and profits for the mints and retailers/sellers?
3. If I'm not alone and most people are paying ~50% above spot price for silver, is the silver spot price just nonsense?
4. Is the spot price for silver exclusive to trade in huge volumes?  Why different to gold?
5. Do silver retailers simply rape silver stackers because they see them as "collectors" rather than "investors" - or they simply charge so much just because they can get away with it?  (supply and demand)
6. Are silver holdings all at a huge risk because selling silver to get out will only ever be priced against the crappy unreal spot price and not the market prices? 

The reason I ask (3) above is because spot price for silver has such a tiny impact on what is being paid for silver, compared to gold spot price changes where I see a significant impact on the value of my stack right away.  Silver seems to be on a different planet to it's spot price...

D'Angelo

...

Communists. 

The last QE2 coins are going to be issued and the new design 2022 sovereign is among them.  What will it mean for investors?  Is there expected to be a rush on sales and higher premiums on the secondary market?

Tell that to bi-metallic gold & silver coins and gold plated silver coins?

They stacked silver heavily during the "opium wars", which annoyed the British Empire and resulted in gun boat diplomacy and the taking / founding of British Hong Kong.  This didn't happen long ago and revenge is still in progress, the Chinese / CCP export billions of dollars of hard chemical drugs (amphetamines, spice, bath salts, meth for example) out of factories in Southern China to the world and take hard currency in return.  It's a similar story with many export items that do nothing other than harm the countries who import (endless plastic c**p & face masks for example).  The Chinese "belt and road" is an empire inspired corruption initiative to gain control and influence and natural resources - they get hard currency and shares in over priced projects in many countries in East Asia and Africa.  The Chinese stack precious metals, but also snatch up commodities / natural resources including mines. 

When it comes to individual stacking it's likely to be mostly China Mint stuff, but I'm sure they have a lot of old bullion and numismatics that they have stacked over centuries.  Aside from PM's and commodities it's worrying that they are snatching up food supply and water supply sources and logistics channels (sea and land).  Just like Bill Gates is the largest land owner in the USA and has bought the power to control and influence food supply, the Chinese are getting into a similar position.  If you control the worlds food supplies you have the power over life and death and unlimited wealth.  So yeah, the Chinese are stacking rice essentially too.  Did I mention Pandas?

Ermmm... which UK dealers have 2022 gold tigers in various sizes?  Or will have them? 

Nice share...

~Gold & platinum tigers look good, silver is too "Disney cartoon".  I wonder what over Tigers are coming for CNY 2022 in silver

Chin / beard diamond

notice the dots in the crown, the definition and spacing amd the background of that area.

Slightly better view

Compare... this crown on this real bar looks different and better quality than both your specimens?  Ill try upload a video in a while..

Pass.. not tempted.  Don't want the risk of them turning out covered in milkspots after a few months.  I heard the robin hoods have issues and about 60% of my 2020 brits are spotted now with no explanation.  I didn't have issues with 2021s yet but I'm now avoiding RM silver products until the issues seem to have calmed down.  I'm a pessamist.

Some other 1oz bars to compare...

Hi @paulmerton,

I recently got a couple of these for the first time.  You have to be very careful because these are very very frequently faked.  I probably won't buy anymore.   I did all the tests too and mine turn out legit.  It's easier when you compare to other 1oz bars - the size is fairly standard so you will notice if the size or thickness is out.. so if weight and dimensions match and teh magnet tests (including sliding the magnet) are a pass then it should be good.  I also found this page and it raised my confience. 

https://www.fakebullion.com/index.php/component/k2/item/23-scottsdale-silver-1-ounce-lion-bar

The key think for me is the fakes have a mirror finish on the reverse behind the S patterns but the originals actually look worse in a more matte finish (lol).  

Anyway looking at your bar - it's in terrible condition so even if it's real (which it might be) I'd send it back to the seller anyway.  I don't think you want one of these without the premium niceness... if it's just scrap bullion then maybe fine.

One last note on packaging - because mine were still in the ori plastic that aslo boosted my confidence they are real, because I compared the plastic to pictures online and they matched the genuine packaging and didn't match the plastic some fakes come in.

I bet they don't have that stock - they just lie to look good and attract people to their sites...  then when people order, they come up with excuses for not delivering.  trust rating for that company is 0 or negative from 0. 

I'd avoid these too tbh, I agree with the other posts above.  In addition I avoid made up commermoratives, like for what would have been Diana's 60th birthday - if you think about it they just make up anything and there are unlimited excuses they can come up with for issuing "limited" coins.  I also see most of these are base metal with no real value, but selling at prices as if they were precious metals.   I see boxes and boxes full of these for sale for 20 to 30 quid on the secondary market, but I bet these were sold for hundreds and thousands when new.  Having said that, if there are designs anyone likes then maybe the best thing to do is pick them up super cheap by the box load on the secondary market and never buy new.  Not an investment - just maybe something that appeals to you

Sustainably sourced & dolphin friendly tuna still contains dolphin meat...  an analogy for fair mined gold perhaps...

Following

And the other mark is the makers mark I think and I can't easily find that one, maybe someone with a book or database of makers marks from the 1820's could find the maker.