Typo on sovereign?

[Sotiris]

Does anyone know what this symbol that looks like the letter m under the chin is? is this a typo?

[MBTPSilver]

I can't make it out clearly from the photo to see what the symbol is, but it shouldn't be on a real Sovereign. The quality of the stamp looks off to me, so I would guess this is a replica coin. It may still be 22ct gold, or could be something less/plated.

[Zhorro]

Does the letter go into the coin, or does it stick out?  People do sometimes engrave their initials on coins - but it could still be a fake.  If the letter sticks out, it probably means it is part of the design and so a fake.

[Dankanugget]

I had one like this and engraved was 22 by his head...took it back.

[Orpster]

Its a makers mark, looks to be a middle eastern forgery of a sovereign, look at the rim which is way too thick for the genuine article, the lettering is off too by the looks

 

These are usually about 21ct

[SidS]

Very fat lettering, look at "BRITT".

[Spyder]

100% a jewellers copy with his mark from the middle east. You need to see what carat gold it is as can be anything from 18ct to 22.1ct

[Booky586]

@LawrenceChard has a very good video on fake sovereigns, about 6 minutes and 20 seconds in he discusses fakes that remind me of yours with additional markings. It's definitely worth a watch if you've not already seen it:

 

[GoldDiggerDave]

On 25/03/2024 at 00:04, Sotiris said:

Does anyone know what this symbol that looks like the letter m under the chin is? is this a typo?

This is likely  to be a "genuine fake" Sovereigns were the most trusted means of exchange in the middle east, they were in short supply so "genuine fakes" were produced from gold so they could be used as a trusted medium of exchange.  They were minted with mint marks from the people who made them, (presume under licence by the state or local authority) 

 

Many of these are over 916 gold as their  smelting process was not as precise and sophisticated as ours and many of these are over in terms of gold content seen some at 925+.

Hope this helps............. I've had some training from @LawrenceChard and had more than  good few in-depth conversations on the subject. 

 

 

[GoldDiggerDave]

Im using some poetic licence this is how I image how these coins came about in the middle east.  

The sovereign was in short supply and would have restricted the local economy, so the ruler aka the local guy in charge instructed gold smiths to make "genuine fakes"   ie a real gold coin that everyone knew and trusted so the local economy will continue to function.  

If they would have just banged out fake sovereigns with  debased gold content very quickly the local trade and economy would have stalled when people caught on the sovereign was not worth its true value the knock on effect would have been disastrous for them.  

I would like to think the local leader the guy with the muscle and biggest swords instructed the local gold smiths to produce a replica sovereign with a minimum trusted amount  of gold,  and mint mark it to prove that it's  a  true gold value........Heres were I could image a conversation from the local leader to the gold smiths......." you debase these coins rip me or the country off and you see these swords I'll chop your head off".......(please don't blame me for poetic licence here)   This would explain why many of these coins are over 916  22 parts gold 2 parts silver and other metal as the guys smelting these were under threat of death if they knocked out anything under a 916 gold coin so they made sure to add a bit extra for tolerance.....I could be wrong but this is how I see it at least.....

.......If they just wanted to knock out fake-fake sovereigns it would have been very easy for them to do, they went to the trouble of making them as close if not more gold content than needed and why would they put such an obvious mark on the coins if they were trying to deceive the population?  

Any way this is my 10 pence worth........

Edited March 26 by GoldDiggerDave

[SidS]

1 minute ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

Im using some poetic licence this is how I image how these coins came about in the middle east.  

The sovereign was in short supply and would have restricted the local economy, so the ruler aka the local guy in charge instructed gold smiths to make "genuine fakes"   ie a real gold coin that everyone knew and trusted so the local economy will continue to function.  

If they would have just banged out fake sovereigns with  debased gold content very quickly the local trade and economy would have stalled when people caught on the sovereign was not worth its true value the knock on effect would have been disastrous for them.  

I would like to think the local leader the guy with the muscle and biggest swords instructed the local gold smiths to produce a replica sovereign with a minimum trusted about of gold,  and mint mark it to prove that is of true gold value........Heres were I could image a conversation from the local leader to the gold smiths......." you debase these coins rip me or the country off and you see these swords I'll chop your head off".......(please don't blame be for poetic licence here)   This would explain why many of these coins are over 916  22 parts gold 2 parts silver and other metal as the guys smelting these were under threat of death if they knocked out anything under a 916 gold coin so they made sure to add a bit extra for tolerance.....I could be wrong but this is how I see it at least.....

.......If they just wanted to knock out fake-fake sovereigns it would have been very easy for them to do, they went to the trouble of making them as close if not more gold content than needed and why would they put such an obvious mark on the coins if they were trying to deceive the population?  

Any way the is my 10 pence worth........

It's almost as if you were there. 😁

[GoldDiggerDave]

8 minutes ago, SidS said:

It's almost as if you were there. 😁

Just the same old story of power and control over the centuries..........The worst tyrant for this was Sir Issac Newton when he was the master of the Royal Mint, a total sick psychopath when it came to forgers.    Theres lots of recorded events of where they caught forgers and they tortured them in the most barbaric medieval ways possible.

I was reading about one case where they caught a forger, Newton himself questioned him and promised clemency if he spilled his guts and told Newton who else was implicated,  obviously the guy told Newton everything as he knew the punishment he would get.  Once he fessed up, Newton had him hung, drawn and quartered (literally spinning the guys guts)  and sent his remains to all 4 parts of the Kingdom as deterrent to others.......queue the Brave Heart Mel Gibsons death scene.  

Those in power have and will aways rule with an iron fist, no matter how palatable they make it appear nowadays. 

 

 

[dicker]

Middle Eastern and may be slightly higher purity than 22ct