At Buyers Risk

[theman73]

17 hours ago, BackyardBullion said:

I have been asked by post office workers many times and each time I say, "nothing prohibited" and if they ask again to clarify I say I'm not telling you anything else. Captain subtext says "mind your business and jog on"

Plumbing is my answer

[theman73]

1 hour ago, BritStacker said:

Additionally, You must always quote actual value to the post office as a different value stated on the postage receipt to that of any claim will make the claim void under RM policy.  So, never leave insurance value at £2500 if goods are sold for £1500.

 

Believe me, they will compensate exactly the amount of the invoice plus the postage cost, not a penny extra or less. I don't have the choice to add the exact amount of the order when I buy my postage labels all the options are ''up to'' so you are inaccurate.

[GoodAsGold]

8 hours ago, AuricGoldfinger said:

This is where somewhere like Atkinsons is good. I don’t trust posting anything so i will drive to their secure unit and sell some sovereigns etc. yes i could get maybe £5 more per sov on the forum but the peace of mind is worth it, not to mention its one transaction not several. Plus proof of sale if it’s a large amount can come in handy if you need to prove where the funds have come from.

Glad to see that I’m not the only one. In my case it’s doing some business with Chards when I’m in NW England. 

[NGMD]

1 hour ago, BritStacker said:

Ok, lets make it really easy for you...

As private seller/buyer - The reason the buyer assumes risk is to protect their payment value because Royal Mail will only pay out insurance value against the sales/purchase invoice value of the claimant. Title passes to the buyer upon payment of goods.

The example being:

Scenario 1 - Seller CIF - carriage insurance freight (paid by seller)

Seller buy a coin for £500.

Seller sells the coin for£1000.

If seller claims for loss the Royal mail need evidence of original purchase value and therefore in this case it would sellers purchase invoice for £500. 

Only half of the value is returned.

Scenario 2 - Buyer CIF - carriage insurance freight (paid by buyer)

Seller buy a coin for £500.

Seller sells the coin for£1000.

If buyer claims for loss the Royal mail need evidence of original purchase value and therefore in this case it would be the buyers invoice for £1000. 

Buyer gets full refund.

Additionally, You must always quote actual value to the post office as a different value stated on the postage receipt to that of any claim will make the claim void under RM policy.  So, never leave insurance value at £2500 if goods are sold for £1500.

By purchasing RM postage you are entering into a contract with them and they will hold you accountable to their contract terms. 

If you sell to someone delivered you are opening both parties to risk of loss which can easily be avoided.

 

 

 

That makes zero sense with respect. No Drama Lama.

The whole world would go into meltdown commercially and privately.

You are saying- Any business who sells a product at their buying price of £50, sells at £100 can only claim,at his cost price back?
Completely false-world trade would collapse.

As a seller you insuring a delivery time and invoice/ selling/ your loss in a capitalist world.

Private trading would also not exist(EBay,TSF, FB). Making a profit on a sale would be obsolete because you wouldn’t get the selling price back. 

The paper trail would be sales post description with price, agree to buy, bank statement proof of payment, postage receipt including enhanced insurance, pictures of item/weight. It is never what the original Seller paid. 

What would be the point of peer to peer trading? The risk outweighs the benefits.

Until the item is received by the buyer- it’s your duty of care to the customer, refund issued and for you to claim because you have ALL the documentation. The buyer has simply just bought an item they’ve not received.

And Yes, I do it all day long and twice on Sunday worldwide.

[BackyardBullion]

Let's not forget also that the optics that buyers have of sellers on this forum counts for an awful lot. Hence why some sellers have no problems selling and others are just here to bump every day.

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

1 hour ago, BritStacker said:

Ok, lets make it really easy for you...

As private seller/buyer - The reason the buyer assumes risk is to protect their payment value because Royal Mail will only pay out insurance value against the sales/purchase invoice value of the claimant. Title passes to the buyer upon payment of goods.

The example being:

Scenario 1 - Seller CIF - carriage insurance freight (paid by seller)

Seller buy a coin for £500.

Seller sells the coin for£1000.

If seller claims for loss the Royal mail need evidence of original purchase value and therefore in this case it would sellers purchase invoice for £500. 

Only half of the value is returned.

Scenario 2 - Buyer CIF - carriage insurance freight (paid by buyer)

Seller buy a coin for £500.

Seller sells the coin for£1000.

If buyer claims for loss the Royal mail need evidence of original purchase value and therefore in this case it would be the buyers invoice for £1000. 

Buyer gets full refund.

Additionally, You must always quote actual value to the post office as a different value stated on the postage receipt to that of any claim will make the claim void under RM policy.  So, never leave insurance value at £2500 if goods are sold for £1500.

By purchasing RM postage you are entering into a contract with them and they will hold you accountable to their contract terms. 

If you sell to someone delivered you are opening both parties to risk of loss which can easily be avoided.

Broseph, nobody is saying RM make it easy or that insurance is easy, but the scenarios you've outlined above are not legitimate:

Terms and conditions | Royal Mail

The RM compensation covers the market value of the item at the time it was lost.

If the example was a 2024 gold 1oz Britannia, one assumes the market value of that coin would be the average price of the 3-5 most reputable sellers of that item - perhaps Royal Mint, Chards and BBP, or your receipt from a reputable dealer. If as the seller you happened to put a moonbeam price of £2000 on that coin and somebody bought it, well, that's shame on you but the insurance will not cover you for £2000, they will only cover up to say £1650 based on the average price of the top 3-5 suppliers

If you still have doubts then read your home insurance documents. They will replace like for like or if you pay extra, they will pay to rematch sets (of furniture/tiles, etc). They do not give you compensation based on the price you paid for your sofa in 2005, they give you compensation based on the cost to replace that sofa or as close to it as possible in 2024

Apart from the fascinating stuff discussed, it's common courtesy to take responsibility until your word (the contract) has been fulfilled and the item is in the buyer's hands

[BackyardBullion]

Common courtesy goes a long way on this forum.

[Gordy]

16 hours ago, Spyder said:

OK, Do you give this free money back to the buyer as they were the ones who paid for it?

I've done this like BYB too, makes a better trusting relationship between the buyer and yourself

[Orpster]

Would be interested to know when sellers would refund the money of a lost item,

Royal Mail will sometimes want to contact the buyer and always ask the seller (claimant) for the buyers contact details.  Is there a risk if the buyer has already had their refund they will not participate?  On some forums if I sell something to a stranger I would not pay till Royal Mail are satisfied, if they decide for any reason not to honour the claim I would still cover the loss to the buyer but only once the claims process is complete.  On here that may not be the case, but this is a very different environment.  A new buyer or member I may take that stance but established and time served members I suspect I would cover the loss pretty much straight away on the proviso they both play ball with Royal Mail and return the coin to me should it ever turn up if the claim is rejected.  Should the coin turn up after the claim has been settled by RM...........never considered that.  I think I would leave it up to the buyer but given I had my money back I think the buyer should keep the item.

[theman73]

1 minute ago, Orpster said:

Would be interested to know when sellers would refund the money of a lost item,

Royal Mail will sometimes want to contact the buyer and always ask the seller (claimant) for the buyers contact details.  Is there a risk if the buyer has already had their refund they will not participate?  On some forums if I sell something to a stranger I would not pay till Royal Mail are satisfied, if they decide for any reason not to honour the claim I would still cover the loss to the buyer but only once the claims process is complete.  On here that may not be the case, but this is a very different environment.  A new buyer or member I may take that stance but established and time served members I suspect I would cover the loss pretty much straight away on the proviso they both play ball with Royal Mail and return the coin to me should it ever turn up if the claim is rejected.  Should the coin turn up after the claim has been settled by RM...........never considered that.  I think I would leave it up to the buyer but given I had my money back I think the buyer should keep the item.

You should wait till the claim process is complete, sometimes RM finds the proof that the order was delivered.

[Orpster]

Just now, theman73 said:

You should wait till the claim process is complete, sometimes RM finds the proof that the order was delivered.

I will keep that in mind thanks

[BackyardBullion]

I will always refund only when the claim is successful on private sales. 

*Edit I typed this in a weird way. What I mean is that I would still refund if it was declined but I would only pay after the decision was made. 

Any business ones I refund immediately and then trust in the claim being settled. If it's not then it's part of doing business and a loss.

[Gordy]

20 hours ago, Sovhead said:

I understand what both of you are saying but there are listings that state SD and STILL state at “Buyers risk”

Yeah, i see that quite a bit, when I sell anything I generally put at buyers risk as some buyers want to save as much as possible to save a quid or two, I'm happy to send anything how any buyer requests but once you go off the SD option then compo gets complicated esp with Signed For as it doesnt cover bullion or precious metals.

So if I sell a 1/10th Gold Brit for example or a sov if they want SD its covered so no risk in my opinion, but if they say 'sod it, I want it 2nd class standard' then it is purely their risk as it is them that are taking the security away from the postage..

I offer any option as I believe the buyer can have a choice but I have also bought off here with no option but SD and i go with that, its quite easy, you take a risk or you cover yourself

Anything I sell over £100.00 on ebay gets put up with SD as standard as its too risky for a seller to offer less with all of the scammers and chancers on there

[ccfcpaul]

1 hour ago, BritStacker said:

 

If buyer claims for loss the Royal mail need evidence of original purchase value and therefore in this case it would be the buyers invoice for £1000. 

 

I had read about the RM only refunding the original purchase price rather than the selling price, but I didn't think of the buyer putting in the claim. 

So based on that, the phrasing when selling, should be "at buyers responsibility" rather than risk, thats when selling SD anyway. As it works out much better for them to request a refund (thats unless you're selling at a loss). Or have I got mixed up there?

 

[ccfcpaul]

because otherwise, the seller will have to give a full refund, only half of which would come from RM

[ArgentSmith]

16 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

I will always refund only when the claim is successful on private sales.

 

Not being funny but if such a claim was unsuccessful then the buyer would be out of pocket hence they would have taken the risk? unless I'm getting the wrong end of stick which does happen to me sometimes 😁

[Gordy]

4 minutes ago, ArgentSmith said:

Not being funny but if such a claim was unsuccessful then the buyer would be out of pocket hence they would have taken the risk? unless I'm getting the wrong end of stick which does happen to me sometimes 😁

he's was talking about for late delivery, If its late you can easily claim the cost of postage but Its only the sender that can claim so following a successful claim for late delivery with SD he refunds the buyer

[BackyardBullion]

6 minutes ago, ArgentSmith said:

Not being funny but if such a claim was unsuccessful then the buyer would be out of pocket hence they would have taken the risk? unless I'm getting the wrong end of stick which does happen to me sometimes 😁

I think I typed this wrong.

What I meant to say was that it would be payable only after the claim has been decided. 

I would refund from my own pocket even if it was not paid out.

The difference is the time before payment.

[BackyardBullion]

7 minutes ago, Gordy said:

he's was talking about for late delivery, If its late you can easily claim the cost of postage but Its only the sender that can claim so following a successful claim for late delivery with SD he refunds the buyer

Yeah, this too!

[ccfcpaul]

55 minutes ago, HonestMoneyGoldSilver said:

Terms and conditions | Royal Mail

So If you're selling a sov for 370 and market value is 420 based on other prices, Would they compensate you for the 420?

[ccfcpaul]

when setting the insurance, are you allowed to put it at the market value rather than the sales price

[Gordy]

1 minute ago, ccfcpaul said:

when setting the insurance, are you allowed to put it at the market value rather than the sales price

selling SD already comes with a level of insurance above those prices, it all depends on the value of the parcel you are sending

[ccfcpaul]

Just now, Gordy said:

selling SD already comes with a level of insurance above those prices, it all depends on the value of the parcel you are sending

thats why I used an example below 750

[AuricGoldfinger]

1 minute ago, ccfcpaul said:

thats why I used an example below 750

Sky blue army!

[ccfcpaul]

Just now, AuricGoldfinger said:

Sky blue army!

PUSB!