Removing a details coin.

[pricha]

I wonder if anyone has purchased a graded coin with details,  such as cleaned and removed the coin either for their own collection or to sell on ? I've seen a few over time but I've never bought one ( with details ).  I've removed a few graded sovereigns before for my stack , usually about AU58 because I didn't overpay and prefer my method of stacking. 

Edited July 15, 2023 by pricha

[modofantasma]

56 minutes ago, pricha said:

I wonder if anyone has purchased a graded coin with details,  such as cleaned and removed the coin either for their own collection or to sell on ? I've seen a few over time but I've never bought one ( with details ).  I've removed a few graded sovereigns before for my stack , usually about AU58 because I didn't overpay and prefer my method of stacking. 

I've seen a few people remove coins from slabs for their collection. For eg a couple of graded bullion coins that were priced at bullion price. 

Also a large collection of sovs known as the 'Bentley Collection' the collector had removed a number of coins from the graded slabs and in a lot of cases these were noted in the auction catalog. 

When you say.. Removing from a coin with details  ... to sell on....  I hope people wouldn't do that and try to pass it off as a problem free coin 

[dicker]

From what I have seen I strongly suspect this happens, but not on TSF.

More common on US cousins that are “doctored” to make them appear relatively problem free.  

I have articles on this, and it is well documented in a number of reference books (doctoring).

Naturally it can be lucrative and even experienced people get caught out.  

[pricha]

I saw one the other day . The detail was Whizzed . To be honest i didn't know what that meant until i looked it up. Considering what people are willing to pay on eBay for poor photographed coins it wouldn't surprise me if the practise happened. Having said that i don't see detailed coins selling cheaply enough , to make it worthwhile.   

Edited July 15, 2023 by pricha

[pricha]

1 hour ago, dicker said:

From what I have seen I strongly suspect this happens, but not on TSF.

More common on US cousins that are “doctored” to make them appear relatively problem free.  

I have articles on this, and it is well documented in a number of reference books (doctoring).

Naturally it can be lucrative and even experienced people get caught out.  

Yes it seem a real problem in America who take their graded coins very seriously.  Coins removed from slabs and photoshoped . 

[ZRPMs]

Up until recently graded coins have never drawn any interest. To the point where I have probably missed out on some harder to get dated coins. I've heard people talk about "the dreaded Details grade" I should imagine there are a lot of details graded coins that have been cracked open. Would I do it myself? Perhaps in the past I might have considered it but now, I don't think I would. Another consideration that I have only just thought of is. How accurate are the population number if coins are removed from the slab and NGC are not informed then the coin resubmitted. I've just bought my first graded coin. An 1985 PF69 ultra cameo from NGC. I bought it as it's a year I needed not because it was graded. Although I don't have any other graded coins, I don't think I'll take it out of the slab. It would seem a shame.

[pricha]

What put me off graded coins was that some cases are quite scratched or had old residue from a label thats difficult to remove.  

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Edited July 15, 2023 by pricha

[TeaTime]

I would have no problem removing a coin from a holder if i was thinking of selling. I see nothing nefarious in doing so. One person graded that coin and stuck it with a 'details' definition - my opinion may differ from that person. I have seen many coins with less than a 70 grade that appear, even under magnification, to have no faults... It is only someone's opinion on a given day after all.

And don't get me started on the actual slabs and how easily they mark and scratch. NGC charge extra for scratch resistant slabs. Seriously ? You have to pay extra because the standard option is, by their own admission, prone to damage easily. 🙄 

[Spyder]

I would say that the coin most removed from a slab would be a 1989 and 1979 proof sovereign. I would bet that the same coin is being sold over and over again to be sent back to grading by a new buyer hoping they will get that magical PF70.   Very few coins of these two years you will see for sale in slab with a PF66 grade. Unless you know that the coin you are buying has never been graded, then it is a big gamble.

[tpcob303]

15 hours ago, pricha said:

I saw one the other day . The detail was Whizzed . To be honest i didn't know what that meant until i looked it up. Considering what people are willing to pay on eBay for poor photographed coins it wouldn't surprise me if the practise happened. Having said that i don't see detailed coins selling cheaply enough , to make it worthwhile.   

I think this is a term used to explain how it's been cleaned. This term I think refers to cleaning of a coin through use of a light brush. 

Interestingly enough there are plenty of youtube videos showing coin people in America showing this practice and that people think its OK to do so. Why? I have no idea, if it leaves a mark or know it leaves a mark if ever I saw someone do it to someone's coins I would get very angry. Some coins get details cleaned and thats it as they might have been dipped in ezest but the coin would have been really old and left in solution too long it will look brand new, which is a big tell tale for an old coin for the 19th or early 20th century. There are ways to conserve coins like with NCS part of NGC so if there is undesirable toning or finger print marks on the coin they can be removed without damaging the coin, and they use specific solutions for it which unlike e-zest or brushes won't affect the surface layer on the coin face.

 

 

[Sovhead]

I’ve done it…..I had to…when you get home and the Spaniel pup gets to the post before you 😩