Sovereigns and their different values

[Hippyer]

Hi guys. Please could someone provide me with a cheat sheet regarding the varying values of sovereigns excluding proof coins?

I believe 'young heads' are pricier but I do not know which ones are less desirable. 

 

[RDHC]

You could do worse than start by looking at the detailed chart available on the allgoldcoins.co.uk website, under the 'Information' section.   It does not give precise values but it does approximately categorise sovereigns according to rarity, by year, and by mint. 

Then you could look up the individual sovereigns that have sold at the London Coin Company, Coins of the Realm, and Coin Cabinet Auctions. You will find a bewildering variety of prices according to rarity, year, and condition. All have photographs and a grading for each coin. However, it will be a very laborious process if you investigate all three - or even one of these. I suggest that you really need to narrow down your area of interest first.

[Hippyer]

Thank you RDHC. I appreciate you pointing me in the right direction.

[modofantasma]

1 hour ago, Hippyer said:

Thank you RDHC. I appreciate you pointing me in the right direction.

https://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/info/sovereign-mintages

You can get an idea of specific mintages on here too 

[refero]

5 hours ago, Hippyer said:

Please could someone provide me with a cheat sheet regarding the varying values of sovereigns excluding proof coins?

the most complex question ever...

we are talking about a 206 years period... (1817-2023) and around 150 coins (only considering London mint and only considering a coin per year of mintage, where some years have 2 different coins.. like 1825, 1848, 1871, 1872, 1873, 1874...). Every coins can grade from Fine to MS...each grade having a its own commercial value..

 

[dicker]

This is definitely not an easy one. I echo what @RDHC says - LCA are a good source to estimate value at auction.

 

[ZRPMs]

It's a tough one. No real cheat sheets. As has already been mentioned. Some of the online dealers list them by year with different prices but condition plays a large part of the price. And, as I have recently discovered. There are numerous variations. !887 has about 30 variations and is a year that's also quite heavily counterfeited. Not to alarm you 

[dicker]

Take a look at some of the threads on Sov errors. Not all dealers are sharp enough to spot all errors and new varieties.  Some of these can command a significant premium to spot.  

[GoldDiggerDave]

8 hours ago, Hippyer said:

Hi guys. Please could someone provide me with a cheat sheet regarding the varying values of sovereigns excluding proof coins?

I believe 'young heads' are pricier but I do not know which ones are less desirable. 

 

1 get a copy of the latest Marsh 

2 get a copy of the latest spink

as for the monarchs it really depends on the scarcity of the coin rather than the monarch some George 5th sovereigns can be numismatic gems that come with a huge price tag even a QEII bullion sovereign can be worth the price of a car if you happen to find the right one.

Theres a massive price difference in the condition of the coins especially for rarer coins.   This is some pictures of the spink I have to hand, 

[Spyder]

41 minutes ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

1 get a copy of the latest Marsh 

2 get a copy of the latest spink

as for the monarchs it really depends on the scarcity of the coin rather than the monarch some George 5th sovereigns can be numismatic gems that come with a huge price tag even a QEII bullion sovereign can be worth the price of a car if you happen to find the right one.

Theres a massive price difference in the condition of the coins especially for rarer coins.   This is some pictures of the spink I have to hand, 

OK having a quick glimps at your latest Spink guide, even in bad condition 1843 sovereign can not be worth less then its gold value at £275.  This why all guides do not make sense.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Spyder

[iacabu]

Current edition for comparison 

[pricha]

throw in die numbers , it's mind blowing.  As for spink guide. If anyone know of shields for BV please get in touch. 

[dicker]

1 hour ago, Spyder said:

OK having a quick glimps at your latest Spink guide, even in bad condition 1843 sovereign can not be worth less then its gold value at £275.  This why all guides do not make sense.

As soon as a book is published it is out of date if not before.  So it’s worth adjusting prices +\- the curent spot.  

[GoldDiggerDave]

1 hour ago, Spyder said:

OK having a quick glimps at your latest Spink guide, even in bad condition 1843 sovereign can not be worth less than its gold value at £275.  This why all guides do not make sense.

 Not the latest copy to hand 2019  spink is usually an accurate reflection a dealer is likely to offer you.  
 

it’s worth having a good number of reference book and paired with recent auction prices to give you a reasonable representation of the current market. 
 

 

 

[GoldDiggerDave]

Just now, GoldDiggerDave said:

 Not the latest copy to hand 2019  spink is usually an accurate reflection a dealer is likely to offer you.  
 

it’s worth having a good number of reference book and paired with recent auction prices to give you a reasonable representation of the current market. 
 

 

 

Allowing for the 2019 guide price and the market sale of the 1843 they are not millions of miles away when you factor in current gold price with buyers premiums .

[Spyder]

12 minutes ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

Allowing for the 2019 guide price and the market sale of the 1843 they are not millions of miles away when you factor in current gold price with buyers premiums .

Thanks understand that. I thought that was the latest 2022/3 guide. 2019 makes all the difference as gold was no where near where it is now.

[Silverlocks]

21 hours ago, Hippyer said:

Hi guys. Please could someone provide me with a cheat sheet regarding the varying values of sovereigns excluding proof coins?

I believe 'young heads' are pricier but I do not know which ones are less desirable. 

 

There are three books you will want for this:

• Marsh, The Gold Sovereign - this has reference material on all sovereign mintages up to 2021 or so.  It also has a price guide, which is slightly out of date.
• Spink, Coins of England and the United Kingdom - published annually, this has price guides for all British coins, including sovereigns, at various grades.
• Allen, Grading British Coins - this has sample photos of all the obverse and reverse designs on British coinage at various states of wear.  You can use it to teach yourself how to evaluate grades.

Some thoughts on sovereigns:

• Anything pre-victoria is putting you squarely in the rare coin space where the numismatic premium will dominate the price of the coin unless it's in extremely poor condition.  Don't buy these as an investment unless you're confident that you can assess a reasonably good view of the resale value.
• Young Victoria sovereigns do carry a premium, especially ones with the shield design on the reverse (shields).  This doesn't necessarily mean you should buy them in preference to anything else.  You still have to have a reasonable sense of the price to know whether you're buying it at a price you can recover, and some idea of grading to know what sort of condition it's in.  There are a lot of folks selling very poor quality young vic sovs at very optimistic prices, and examples of young vic sovs in good condition (say: EF or better) are quite rare.  Of the 20 or so young vic sovs I've bought and sold over the past year or so, I think about three are nice enough that I really want to keep them.
• Jubilee Victoria sovs tend to show wear very badly, and ones in good condition (i.e. where the detail in the lace, garters and hair line aren't badly worn) aren't that common. I've got two in a condition that I want to keep.
• Old Vic and Edward VII sovs do pop up in good condition from time to time, but you do have to know what to look for as there are still a lot in poor to mediocre condition.  They're not hugely in demand by collectors so be aware of the grade and price you're paying.  By and large, these should have low premiums unless they are in exceptionally good condition, and be sure you have a handle on the grade before getting into anything with a numismatic premium.
• George V sovs are quite good value as they were withdrawn from circulation during WWI but still produced in large numbers.  It's quite easy to find examples in good condition.  With the exception of rare mintages they tend to attract a low premium, so they can be good for stacking.  Look sideways at anything with a significant numismatic premium and make sure you've got some idea of a reasonable market value.  I and C mint sovs are less common than British, Australian or South African ones, but not as rare as folks make them out to be (although there are rare years, but chance are you won't see one of those).
• Gillick and Machin sovs are quite common and tend to be in good condition as they were never circulated.  There are a few less common years but nothing particularly rare.  Beware of overpriced 1957 and 1959 Gillicks.
• Maklouf sovs were only ever made as proofs, so tend to be quite expensive.  Don't buy proof sovs unless you can evaluate the grade and have some idea of the market price for different years.
• Modern (2000 and post) sovs should largely only be purchased as bullion.  Some special years can command a small premium but be careful not to overpay.

Sovs can be good value for money - small fractional coins with a low premium.  However, there are a lot of pitfalls with buying sovs, so you do have to do your homework and get some understanding of their numismatics.  Really, there's no short cut around this.  Don't just go buying young vics for the sake of young vics.  By and large,  the value has already been extracted from them so they're not necessarily a bargain unless you have enough of a handle on the value to make that call yourself.

Edited July 12, 2023 by Silverlocks

[n1k0s]

From the website of allgoldcoins I have found this chart which summarizes the scarcity of various sovereigns per year and per mint

The link is here: 

https://www.allgoldcoins.co.uk/pages/modern-gold-proof-coins-sets

A snip of the scarcity table is here: 

 

[GoldDiggerDave]

On 11/07/2023 at 20:06, iacabu said:

Current edition for comparison 

I have an older copy on my coffee table and I keep my new ones for best…..🤣 you’ll see when gold prices rise over a few years ls it doesn’t automatically translate into higher numismatic prices.  

1843 VF £450 in 2019 4 years on it’s still the same price…….what’s a killer is when you get a scarcity reduction in Marsh like they did with the Ottawa mint sovereigns. 

So it’s best to see the latest auction sales, that can also be difficult as the might not be any new sales in recent years.