Is smuggling silver into UK actually happening?

[GoldStandardPartyUK]

Is silver smuggling into the UK actually a thing? What are the routes / methods? 

Do you avoid buying if you have suspicion? 

It might be illegal, but is it actually wrong?

My favourite character from dad's army is Walker, the only character who has his head screwed on, who knows what he wants out of these dark times, the only one who solves problems. 

[AppleZippoandMetronome]

I would say it is something that is undoubtedly happening but to what extent really is anyone's guess. The decision to delcare items is mostly voluntary. The caveat obviously is that you could be "randomly" pulled aside and required to empty your bags/luggage. I really have no idea what penalty someone smuggling silver would face at that point. I travel to Canada and back usually once a year or so to see family and pretty much always bring some form of silver back with me. I do try to keep it within the tax free allowance though just in case. I've speculated in other threads that in theory someone travelling to Canada or the US could get around the limit by briging back under $10000 face value worth of silver Canadian dimes or quarters since those coins are still technically circulating coinage so should count as cash but its not something I've ever tested.

[Stacktastic]

I have thought about this as I have people in Poland, but found it cheaper and less risk to wait for decent crashes and buy on here as everyone is not VAT registered. & as far as i know its second hand and the VAT has been paid. Is that right?  

No doubt though that the price has gone up to cater for the VAT on newer stuff & people that stacked prior to VAT are cashing in on that a bit. I went on the going rate when I sold a lot of silver in March when everyone crapped it on the banking BS.   

Edited July 9, 2023 by Stacktastic

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

I'm sure it is, similar to tobacco and alcohol

Is it wrong? I find that difficult to answer. On one hand it's the law of the land and we should obey these laws but on the other hand, if the laws are unfair, nonsensical and punitive against the people (we the people are sovereign, not Parliament, HMRC or Border Force), then there's a decent argument for not obeying those laws. In the UK we police by consent not by dictation

Do we consent to having our silver taxed? No, it's a cruel joke bordering on criminal itself

Do I avoid buying if I have suspicion? Ah, I'm suspicious by nature but you have to give people the benefit of the doubt. If I knew for sure there was some kind of fraud or criminal activity happening then I would avoid those items, but suspicion by itself is not sufficient. The main point of suspicion would be the sale price but the margin people are making on those items is unknown. If someone bought some nice silver coins for £12/each a few years ago and sold them today at £24 when the other sellers on TSF were asking £28 or £30, is that suspicious? We can't make that judgement from imperfect information

I don't believe it's illegal to buy silver that has been smuggled but don't quote me on that. It's definitely illegal with huge penalties and custodial sentences for doing it (smuggling/VAT fraud/stolen property) as a business though

I'm reasonably confident this "problem" is widespread due to immigration. Silver is very popular in India and China whereas adherence to tax laws is not so popular in those cultures, it's not popular in any culture. In Asia "tax efficiencies", shall we call them, are considered more of a sport than a criminal activity. There's also a bunch of silver floating about in Europe that was bought legally without taxes (e.g. Estonia) or at lower VAT rates (e.g. Switzerland), plus the international (USA, Canada, Australia, NZ, South Africa, etc) element

I've said a few times if I was PM of the UK then VAT/CGT on precious metals would be abolished tomorrow. The UK would become the dominant player in Europe if we did that

[Stacktastic]

Its up to the individual if you ask me - especially just a few KG.
And they expect it just like fags and booze & allow that as its not a threat to thier extortion racket.  

I follow laws and rules when they feel right personally or make common sense & are respectful & decent.at that time. 
A bit like driving 40mph in a 30mph zone at 5am in the morning where there is zero people or traffic.  

I rightly deleted the last 3 paragraphs, but feel free to have a look in edited.  

Thats my lot. 

Edited July 9, 2023 by Stacktastic

[Petra]

Silver!? 🤔a lot of other things worth getting caught for. I suppose silver and avoiding VAT is seen as a soft option.

[bluffer]

Hello officer.  I know nothing of what you speak! 🤣

 

Does it happen? probably.  a lot? doubt it compared to cigarettes and booze.  victimless?  depends on your point of view as with a lot of stuff on the white collar side.  thing is, someone always loses out, at extremes tax receipts down so spending cut, legitimate businesses that dont get your custom.....

 

As for vat disappearing on silver?  i would say not a chance, more likely it would be extended to gold even if it only brings in a couple of hundred million each year.  lets face it, as much noise as we might make about how unfair it is, the great british public will not give a single flying one about "rich" people buying silver and gold and not being taxed more.  even if the money used to buy the goods are from income already taxed.    tax avoidance and NI avoidance from various city types who are given gold bars as bonuses are lumped in with the more "normal" on here.

 

For methods, i would hazard a guess and say its not done by flying ryanair with their baggage alowance and charges😂

[JohnA1]

16 hours ago, bluffer said:

For methods, i would hazard a guess and say its not done by flying ryanair with their baggage alowance and charges😂

One might guess Northern Ireland, Channel Islands and such to be a better path

[dicker]

My guess is yes, but not on an industrial scale given the weight of silver vs price.  

If it was gold, it would be a different matter.  
 

[Stacktastic]

7 hours ago, JohnA1 said:

and such to be

You mean 'Sure to be'. 🌿

Edited July 10, 2023 by Stacktastic

[Cointreau]

If I'm doing it I am bringing it in from Guernsey.

[JohnA1]

1 hour ago, Stacktastic said:

You mean 'Sure to be'. 🌿

one can never be totally certain, but one can speculate wildly nevertheless 😇

[Stacktastic]

3 minutes ago, JohnA1 said:

one can never be totally certain, but one can speculate wildly nevertheless 😇

sorry meant to say 'arr to be sure' - irish thing. 

[JohnA1]

Edited July 10, 2023 by JohnA1

[HillWalkerDundee]

On 09/07/2023 at 17:49, GoldStandardPartyUK said:

Is silver smuggling into the UK actually a thing? What are the routes / methods? 

Do you avoid buying if you have suspicion? 

It might be illegal, but is it actually wrong?

My favourite character from dad's army is Walker, the only character who has his head screwed on, who knows what he wants out of these dark times, the only one who solves problems. 

I have only recently found out some of the stories behind the characters in Dad's Army. Many fought for their King and Country in World War 1. Private Godfrey's story, when you compare with the character played, is mind boggling.

[JohnA1]

On 09/07/2023 at 17:49, GoldStandardPartyUK said:

It might be illegal, but is it actually wrong?

Yes, it is wrong to charge VAT on legal money issued by the Royal Mint

[Agaupl]

 

[theman73]

On 09/07/2023 at 17:49, GoldStandardPartyUK said:

Is silver smuggling into the UK actually a thing?  Yes

What are the routes / methods?  Yes / Yes