Chinesemedals - Awful Service & ebay Feedback Manipulation

[Guest]

Why would you post a tracking number on ebay items that you hadn't even sent, and for a month too?

This is very very common for pre-sale items sold on eBay. eBay does measure vendor on how quickly they issue tracking numbers and this makes it particularly difficult for vendors who have pre-sale items.


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[sovereignsteve]

10 minutes ago, Numistacker said:

 

This is very very common for pre-sale items sold on eBay. eBay does measure vendor on how quickly they issue tracking numbers and this makes it particularly difficult for vendors who have pre-sale items.


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Hmm, not sure it is ebay's intention to measure how quickly they issue tracking numbers, more how quickly they ship items.

The seller can easily get around this by saying exactly how long an item will take to ship. Part of the feedback questionaire relates to whether the item is shipped within the stated time.

To enter a tracking number on ebay without shipping is misleading at best as this marks the item as "sent".

[Guest]

Hmm, not sure it is ebay's intention to measure how quickly they issue tracking numbers, more how quickly they ship items.

The seller can easily get around this by saying exactly how long an item will take to ship. Part of the feedback questionaire relates to whether the item is shipped within the stated time.

To enter a tracking number on ebay without shipping is misleading at best as this marks the item as "sent".

Actually eBay's rules on this are very inflexible. I have had sellers insist they send things that have then been returned to them because nobody was there to receive delivery.

If we want pre-sales via eBay which we do (I do) then they can get round eBay's rules by having a tracking number.



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[Guest]

I think it was perfectly reasonably for him to give the no return ultimatum. It is in no one's interests for these expensive items to be winging their way backwards and forwards between the UK and China. Rather than send low res photos which could create suspicion, he would have been better off just say " shall we cancel the sales and refund.

I may be wrong but I think there are import restrictions on pm into china and that may also be behind this in some way


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[sovereignsteve]

4 minutes ago, Numistacker said:

 

Actually eBay's rules on this are very inflexible. I have had sellers insist they send things that have then been returned to them because nobody was there to receive delivery.
 

 

Not sure what relevance this has to the current discussion.

 

 

[Silverstackeruk]

I received the rest of my medals via courier today from Andy...I've never had no problems with Chinese medals but like in any business your always going to get customers that aren't happy ..And there are 2 sides to the story which you haven't heard Andy's side yet. 

[sovereignsteve]

1 minute ago, Silverstackeruk said:

And there are 2 sides to the story which you haven't heard Andy's side yet. 

I would be the first to accept that, but there appears to be one or two issues here that do not reflect well on Andy and seem difficult to explain in an innocent way.

[fehk2001]

1 hour ago, Numistacker said:

 

I may be wrong but I think there are import restrictions on pm into china and that may also be behind this in some way


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China mainland 17% duties but no charge on return items 

however ,they will charge you no matter what you tell them or they will destroy your item 

If that's Singapore , Macau Hong Kong , there is no duties to pay 

add on ;

post from china , you have to open the box to show them what are you posting before you will get any tracking numbers hence long queue !

Send from Singapore are just same as uk Royal Mail you declare . Hence you will get tracking numbers before post 

hope this helps

[Kman]

These are my takeaways from the thread

Andy is a perfectly fine legitimate seller... unless you're unhappy with a coin and want a refund

If you ever want a refund, he will begrudgingly do it but don't expect to buy any more coins from him

+ People here seem very worried about souring Andy as a contact because they might lose out on their Chinese Medal crack fix  

[Orchestral]

I couldn't agree with you more @Kman, that's exactly how I feel. I'm at work at the moment but will give a brief timeline when I get home.

[Guest]

These are my takeaways from the thread

Andy is a perfectly fine legitimate seller... unless you're unhappy with a coin and want a refund

If you ever want a refund, he will begrudgingly do it but don't expect to buy any more coins from him

+ People here seem very worried about souring Andy as a contact because they might lose out on their Chinese Medal crack fix [emoji14] 

@quicksilver is this your experience?



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[Silverstackeruk]

Im not afraid of souring Andrew...But I cannot say anything bad about him as my experiences have always been positive...i

[Quicksilver]

3 minutes ago, Numistacker said:

@quicksilver is this your experience?

No as a matter of fact my purchases and experience has been the complete opposite.

Like I said in my other post, I’ve had no problems occur that you wouldn’t expect once in a while from a UK or European coin dealer. Just the one minor hiccup which is to be expected as any purchases has the possibility for a fault whether you’re buying a mobile phone or bullion.

Andy has always been professional and courteous towards me. When I had a small problem he instantly resolved the issue and made me feel at ease.

I can’t fault the guy, as they say, so far so good.

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[sixgun]

Looking through the previous thread, it would appear the medals come from the Mint to a hut in China from where they are dispatched. 

The medals aren't checked.

So medals come out of the mint plus or minus faults and then on to the customer.

The HQ is in Singapour. 

i have received one delivery. There was no paperwork with it. 

The system results in problems unless the Mint has 100% QA. 

i note that imperfect coins are getting MS70 gradings. What does NGC say about MS70?

"What is a 70?

NGC defines a Mint State or Proof 70 coin as having no post-production imperfections at 5x magnification."

The medals were produced with these faults - so a die crack for example should not make a scrap of difference to the grading.

My view is the faults in the medals are produced during production. There are little more than a handful of these medals and some of them come with variations.

Using the system Andy appears to have no control over this, the medals come with warts and all. There are a limited number. If we say there are 99 produced of a particular medal, what is anyone to do if 30 of them are supplied with a ding? 

There were 99 minted but some were retained by the mint and 30 couldn't be sent out b/c they had dings and marks. 

[Jimmock]

As a totally neutral observer,the main problems seem to be that - It doesn't matter how many happy customers you have,its the way you treat those with a grievance that really matters,and also would any of us pay a premium for a coin knowing that no matter what arrived in the post,we had to keep it?

[Orchestral]

22 minutes ago, sixgun said:

Looking through the previous thread, it would appear the medals come from the Mint to a hut in China from where they are dispatched. 

The medals aren't checked.

So medals come out of the mint plus or minus faults and then on to the customer.

The HQ is in Singapour. 

i have received one delivery. There was no paperwork with it. 

The system results in problems unless the Mint has 100% QA. 

i note that imperfect coins are getting MS70 gradings. What does NGC say about MS70?

"What is a 70?

NGC defines a Mint State or Proof 70 coin as having no post-production imperfections at 5x magnification."

The medals were produced with these faults - so a die crack for example should not make a scrap of difference to the grading.

My view is the faults in the medals are produced during production. There are little more than a handful of these medals and some of them come with variations.

Using the system Andy appears to have no control over this, the medals come with warts and all. There are a limited number. If we say there are 99 produced of a particular medal, what is anyone to do if 30 of them are supplied with a ding? 

There were 99 minted but some were retained by the mint and 30 couldn't be sent out b/c they had dings and marks. 

Understandable, hence why I repeatedly asked in the other thread (and Andy himself and @Numistacker) if I should adjust my expectations for this particular series. I didn't get a straight 'yes' from those in the forum who are invested in these coins (literally), probably because answering 'yes' of course implies that the series does indeed have quality control issues like I asked. I don't expect perfection but if a coin I buy has a horrible chip (or 3) in it that reduces eye appeal then I'd return it, like I did, regardless of mintage numbers, due to the massive premiums. Whether said damage occurs post-production or not is a technicality that NGC may care about, but it's not a distinction I make. What you're effectively saying here @sixgun equates to 'There aren't very many made so accept even poor quality ones'.

[Orchestral]

Andy eventually showed my sleeves of both types of Rooster, all apparently with small issues according to him. They all looked great to me except maybe one which had a nasty chip like the one I sent back. I told him exactly that but due to being unable to tell for certain from the bad photos that I couldn't risk 'No returns or refunds'.

I'd also add that of the photos Andy showed, he made no indication as to which of the coins he intended to send. Basically a case of "Look, they're not 100% perfect, accept or not, no returns or refunds." Well screw that.

[sixgun]

What i am saying is

It is clear there are QA issues from the mint and no QC by the sponsor/distributor.

It bothers me. It bothers you even more. So best steer clear.

 

[Orchestral]

@sixgun I'll just buy them from a vendor that doesn't mess me around, like I have already.

I don't know why some of you are taking this so personally and defending Andy so vehemently, I'm just relaying my experience.

[Orchestral]

21 hours ago, Clens92 said:

I'm sure many Chinese sellers are completely brilliant, but I just wouldn't risk it.   There's no recourse against them, in a state which effectively endorses widespread forgery and IP-violations.

Glad you got your refund, and his pathetic attempt at positive feedback is very obvious to see.

I wouldn't tar them all with the same brush for no reason, I'll let you know about some of the others though:

Tuesday I received a PF70 Rooster (Chang Huan version) from Lucky that's missing it's COA, hopefully he resolves that.

And from Dragonzeng168 I'm still waiting for a PF69 Nanjing Two Lovely Panda that I ordered on the 4th December, worrisome thing about this is he's asking me to close the dispute I've just opened so that he can refund me sooner, once closed I can't reopen it and I know that @Numistacker showed Andy, Lucky & Dragon the previous thread of mine for comment, so I'm scared do as Dragon asks in case he too thinks "I have a vendetta." as @sixgun does. Dragon has been exceptional so far though, I must say.

I'm not expecting quick resolutions though as it's Chinese New Year.

[danmc82]

Whatever you do, dont close the dispute. He can refund you whenever he wants.

Seems like you have bad luck with ebay sellers at the moment

[Orchestral]

16 minutes ago, danmc82 said:

Whatever you do, dont close the dispute. He can refund you whenever he wants.

Seems like you have bad luck with ebay sellers at the moment

You might be right, seems to have been a problem with some postage coming out of China round this time though. A friend at work pointed out on a Transformer toy collector forum he belongs to that loads of people were still missing packages specifically from early December and another friend hasn't received his shipment of Chinese tea from the very same date as my order.

Full disclosure for those that have the patience & inclination to read it:

• 28th Nov – Purchased Shenyang Lunar Monkey from Chinesemedals.com (first time customer).
• 29th Nov- Emailed Andy to pre-order my 1st Lunar Rooster Proof, payment sent.
• 4th Dec – Purchased via ebay 2nd Lunar Rooster Proof & Rooster Antique combination.- Tracking number was provided very shortly after purchase. 4 coins now on order.
• 13th Dec- Received Lunar Monkey. I emailed Andy asking for a replacement, Andy wouldn’t replace but said he’d refund me. I asked him if the damage was normal for the series, he response was ‘Nothing is perfect, not even the Mona Lisa’ and he sent me loads of photos of imperfect Shenyang coins, though none as bad as the one I received, just minor hairlines etc (which are acceptable). Felt like I was being talked into accepting a coin I wasn’t happy with.
• 14th Dec – I sought the advice of this forum. http://thesilverforum.com/topic/7663-non-fiat-lunar-panda-questions/
• 16th Dec – I decided I would indeed return the coin & posted it back.
• 21st Dec - Messaged Andy on ebay because the tracking number for the 2nd Rooster & Antique combo still said ‘invalid’, I asked on this day specifically because @Silverstackeruk had received his roosters the day prior so I expected mine to arrive shortly.
• 27th Dec – Andy got back to me saying he wouldn’t send the coins until he’d shown me photos & I had accepted(?), hence the tracking number was 'fake' because the coins STILL weren’t even posted, weren't intended to be posted, and I hadn't been told. Annoyed but I asked to see the photos.
• 29th Dec – Andy sent me photos of a sheet of antique roosters ‘with problems’, I said they looked good to me for all I could see.
• 2nd Jan – Andy sent photos of proofs, some graded and said “most have residue or hairlines. No return or refund. Make decision on it.”, they looked fine to be honest but the photos were bad, unfocused and resolution low.
• 3rd Jan – partial refund, $188 short – I complained.
• 4th Jan – fully refunded.

Total amount owed was $837 and a whole lot of wasted of time for the both of us.The other day I left negative feedback, yesterday I noticed his fake feedback.

Andy was within his rights to not sell to me, I'm also within my rights to be displeased and share this experience with others.

What I took biggest issue with was the fact I kept checking my post & checking the tracking number for weeks up to Christmas, then tracking number turned out to not have any parcel assigned to it and I wasn't told this until the 27th Dec.. when I specifically asked.

I hope that clears things up. Maybe I was in the wrong, you be the judge.

Anyway, I could do without my new coin hobby being this stressful, I've just become a father and started the process of buying a new home, that's enough stress right there thank you very much!!

[Pampfan]

@OrchestralCongrats on the new edition to your family. 

I think this thread has cleared it up very nicely for me as to not start collecting panda medals, to much stress.  ( got enough problems dealing with milk spots)

 

[Orchestral]

7 minutes ago, Pampfan said:

@OrchestralCongrats on the new edition to your family. 

I think this thread has cleared it up very nicely for me as to not start collecting panda medals, to much stress.  ( got enough problems dealing with milk spots)

 

Thank you! Well, that's just the thing, I switched to pandas after getting so many spotted Canadian & British coins!

[danmc82]

I've had a couple of parcels from China delayed since late November, nothing of high value, just annoying.

A couple of sellers have re-sent parcels. Thats the customer service you expect.