So I got my first fake! 3 of them

[chris2982]

Well at least I hope it's my first but probably won't be my last.

 

I assume I don't have any comeback when buying from an auction??

Edited June 8, 2023 by chris2982

[Spyder]

If it was advertised as genuine, that you would be entitled to your money back. Would you like to name the auction house?

[chris2982]

Description was very generic

"BOX CONTAINING A COLLECTION OF BANK NOTES AND COINAGE TO INCLUDE SILVER EXAMPLES, ETC."

Photo from listing.

 

Auction house is in Norfolk, a place called Horners.  They are not local to me and bidding was done online.

[James32]

Silver examples is very vague, still might be worth a strong worded email to gauge response ( assuming your certain there fake)

[johniom]

The carson city coin has got the wrong date on it so that would be a giveaway on the one dollar. Would think that the auction house would have known that though if they sell a lot of coins. Perhaps that's why they gave it such a vague listing title.

[Petra]

Looking at that box they would probably spend all of 20 seconds looking at them. With on line auctions it is always best to ask questions, then if anything happens/found to be iffy then you have some/more comeback.

[stefffana]

7 hours ago, chris2982 said:

Well at least I hope it's my first but probably won't be my last.

 

I assume I don't have any comeback when buying from an auction??

Are you 100% sure they are fake? What's wrong with 5 Lire and 5 Francs?

From picture I can't see...

Edited June 8, 2023 by stefffana

[JohnA1]

silver 'examples' 😆

They're good eh..

[chris2982]

Thanks for everyone's input.

Correct me if I am wrong but if silver they shouldn't be magnetic??  That's what I am basing them being fake on.  However I had just had some silver test acid delivered so can confirm.

I think if I do contact the auction house they are just going to say some are silver/silver colored, sold as seen etc.

Think I'm just gonna Write these off as an experience and buy only from trusted sellers or on here. 

It's a shame as I do enjoy going through a box of randoms..  maybe I'll only do that if they are local to me and I can view them properly first.

[James32]

1 minute ago, chris2982 said:

Thanks for everyone's input.

Correct me if I am wrong but if silver they shouldn't be magnetic??  That's what I am basing them being fake on.  However I had just had some silver test acid delivered so can confirm.

I think if I do contact the auction house they are just going to say some are silver/silver colored, sold as seen etc.

Think I'm just gonna Write these off as an experience and buy only from trusted sellers or on here. 

It's a shame as I do enjoy going through a box of randoms..  maybe I'll only do that if they are local to me and I can view them properly first.

If a magnet sticks, then all bets are off 😆 

[stefffana]

4 minutes ago, chris2982 said:

Thanks for everyone's input.

Correct me if I am wrong but if silver they shouldn't be magnetic??  That's what I am basing them being fake on.  However I had just had some silver test acid delivered so can confirm.

I think if I do contact the auction house they are just going to say some are silver/silver colored, sold as seen etc.

Think I'm just gonna Write these off as an experience and buy only from trusted sellers or on here. 

It's a shame as I do enjoy going through a box of randoms..  maybe I'll only do that if they are local to me and I can view them properly first.

You are right. Silver is not magnetic. It is diamagnetic, so a magnet will slow down on 45° silver surface, but will not stick.

[Mrpound]

Slimy gits with their vague choice of words

[Spyder]

If you only paid a small amount, then it was a pure gamble. I have seen many auction house throw random coins in a lot with maybe one silver in hope that buyers see that coin and think there may be others. It is a lucky dip at the end of the day.   

Take note if the auction house started the bids at £5, then they were telling you, there is nothing of value. Now if they started at £40-50 then they are to blame and are not to be trusted. Their pre auction estimates should also tell you something.  Can you tell me what their estimate was before hand?

Edited June 8, 2023 by Spyder

[chris2982]

I think they had their estimate at around 30 to 50, just had another look to check but they have taken down the numbers.

[chris2982]

Was also these

And a small bunch of old pennies and half pennies.

[Spyder]

2 minutes ago, chris2982 said:

I think they had their estimate at around 30 to 50, just had another look to check but they have taken down the numbers.

If that was their estimates, they are not be be trusted and you should demand your money back on the condition that their estimate indicated that the coins were silver. Copies are only worth pennies.

[flyingveepixie]

It could be a genuine mistake on the part of the seller and/or the auction house.  As @Petra suggests, the auction house would have spent all of 20 seconds (if that) looking at the box, not testing the coins because that takes time, and basing their price estimate on an assumption that they were probably or possibly all silver, although the wording is very ambiguous which might raise suspicions a bit. The boxes look to me like the kind of thing you might come across when clearing out the home of a deceased old relative and if lacking in any kind of knowledge would probably think "ok, some old coins here, I know nothing about coins but they look like silver, so lets put 'em up for sale and see what we can get"

It's unfortunate for you as the buyer but I doubt you will have little comeback, although a complaint to the auction house might make them tighten up their act a bit for the future.

Edited June 9, 2023 by flyingveepixie

[Spyder]

2 hours ago, flyingveepixie said:

It could be a genuine mistake on the part of the seller and/or the auction house.  As @Petra suggests, the auction house would have spent all of 20 seconds (if that) looking at the box, not testing the coins because that takes time, and basing their price estimate on an assumption that they were probably or possibly all silver, although the wording is very ambiguous which might raise suspicions a bit. The boxes look to me like the kind of thing you might come across when clearing out the home of a deceased old relative and if lacking in any kind of knowledge would probably think "ok, some old coins here, I know nothing about coins but they look like silver, so lets put 'em up for sale and see what we can get"

It's unfortunate for you as the buyer but I doubt you will have little comeback, although a complaint to the auction house might make them tighten up their act a bit for the future.

If you go on the auction house web site, it does look like a lot of their stuff for sale comes from house clearance

[JohnA1]

In my view, the weasel word 'examples' would not be used if they were operating in good faith - not for such an opening price anyway..

Edited June 9, 2023 by JohnA1

[silversky]

Are there ANY silver coins in there?  A hint of plate doesn't count as a silver coin or "example".  If they described the lot as including silver examples of coinage, then there must at least be two silver coins in it or the lot is not as described.

[flyingveepixie]

28 minutes ago, silversky said:

Are there ANY silver coins in there?  A hint of plate doesn't count as a silver coin or "example".  If they described the lot as including silver examples of coinage, then there must at least be two silver coins in it or the lot is not as described.

There looks to be an old florin and a silver threepence, also one which is almost completely hidden but which looks like it could have Victoria's jubilee head on it.  A couple of the others look like they 'might' be silver ...🤔  A couple of little silver threepennies in the box of coppers too..

Edited June 9, 2023 by flyingveepixie

[stefffana]

21 hours ago, chris2982 said:

Description was very generic

"BOX CONTAINING A COLLECTION OF BANK NOTES AND COINAGE TO INCLUDE SILVER EXAMPLES, ETC."

Photo from listing.

 

Auction house is in Norfolk, a place called Horners.  They are not local to me and bidding was done online.

The 25 schilling 1968 is silver .800 as well.😊

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces12437.html

[silversky]

It appears that it was photographed such that the forgeries made it look like it had more silver in it than it actually does. If the auction house knew, then that is extremely dishonest.  If I am correct, the forgeries are all of foreign state coins?  I always find that to be suspicious.  It is not a criminal offence to trade in foreign counterfeits.  Hence why in the UK, most counterfeits openly listed are not UK coins.  Call me paranoid, but it's not beyond the realm of possibility that they could have been sprinkled in to boost the hammer price... 

The other option is that they simply had no idea, and that they just quickly photographed them ready for auction.

If it's the latter, I would expect them to offer you your money back.  An honest auction house doesn't need this kind of attention.  They don't need a call to weights and measures, and to the local newspaper, both of which I personally would do if they don't resolve the matter sensibly.

[Petra]

Any decent auction house has someone who knows something about coins to enable them to be cataloged. If not, then the person responsible can easily sit at their desk with the basic knowledge and tools to enable some simple checks, i. e. scales, magnet etc. probably find that it is a case of someone not doing the job properly.

If bidding on line, always message/ call and ask about your lots. Many times I have seen nice looking stuff online or in a catalogue going for lots to an online buyer, yet having handled the item, seen cracks etc. meaning they have overpaid. 
 

Lots of terminology in all auction small print to cover this and all eventualities, obvious fakes such as a single gold coin are a different matter.

[MetalMandible]

My kid's crayon box has a 'silver' crayon in it... after much deliberation, I have come to the conclusion that it is in fact made out of wax.