Legit Colombia 5 Pesos Gold Coin?

[beacon]

Hello. Just to wanted to make sure this Colombia Cinco Pesos from 1920 looks real? Took some pictures in different lightings. I weighed it at 7.9 grams, and it's diameter at 22mm. It has dings/scratches, and probably has been cleaned. 

FWIW: I put it in a glass of water and it immediately sank to the bottom (since real gold is very dense, it should do that). I know that's not a 100% accurate test; hence the confirmation here on the forum where there are more senior and experienced members.

BTW: Assuming everything looks good — would the "A" mint mark stand for Antioquia? I wonder if this was minted in Medellin.

Thank in advance.

Edited February 1, 2023 by beacon

[LawrenceChard]

1 hour ago, beacon said:

Hello. Just to wanted to make sure this Colombia Cinco Pesos from 1920 looks real? Took some pictures in different lightings. I weighed it at 7.9 grams, and it's diameter at 22mm. It has dings/scratches, and probably has been cleaned. 

WFIW: I put it in a glass of water and it immediately sank to the bottom (since real gold is very dense, it should do that). I know that's not a 100% accurate test; hence the confirmation here on the forum where there are more senior and experienced members.

BTW: Assuming everything looks good — would the "A" mint mark stand for Antioquia? I wonder if this was minted in Medellin.

Thank in advance.

It is hard to tell, even with better quality photos, but it does not look good.

Have you tried lookinig closely at it yourself?

The water test probably rules out the possibility of it being made of soluble aspirin, or one of the alkali metals alkali metals Li, Na, K, Rb, Cs, or Fr!

😎

[beacon]

2 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

It is hard to tell, even with better quality photos, but it does not look good.

Have you tried lookinig closely at it yourself?

The water test probably rules out the possibility of it being made of soluble aspirin, or one of the alkali metals alkali metals Li, Na, K, Rb, Cs, or Fr!

😎

I have looked with a loupe. So far, comparing to several Cinco Pesos online, many details seem to match.

What makes you think it does it not look good? Are you referring to the quality of the photos, or the phrase it does not look good, meaning it is a fake? 

[Skyfiller]

37 minutes ago, beacon said:

have looked with a loupe. So far, comparing to several Cinco Pesos online, many details seem to match

It’s the details that don’t match that you want to pay attention to and study.

[RDHC]

You might like to compare your coin with its exact 1920 counterpart currently to be found on the MA-Shops website where it is advertised by the highly reputable firm of Kuenker. Looking at the two, it seems to me that the numerals in the date on yours are not quite right and that it lacks the detail found in the inner ear of the guy as shown on the Kuenker coin. There is also an apparent problem in that yours has an 'A' for its mintmark, whereas the other has a 'B', doubtless for Bogota. The only other mint in Colombia that I know of was at Popoyan in the Spanish imperial hey-day. There is a moderately large city called Armenia but it is nowhere near the size of Bogota, so it presumably did not merit its own mint, especially as it is not very far away from the capital.

I'm sorry to raise these doubts. I hope I can be proved wrong.

Edited February 1, 2023 by RDHC

[LawrenceChard]

4 hours ago, Skyfiller said:

It’s the details that don’t match that you want to pay attention to and study.

Very well put!

😎

[LawrenceChard]

5 hours ago, beacon said:

I have looked with a loupe. So far, comparing to several Cinco Pesos online, many details seem to match.

What makes you think it does it not look good? Are you referring to the quality of the photos, or the phrase it does not look good, meaning it is a fake? 

What makes you think it does it not look good?

Looking at it critically.

Are you referring to the quality of the photos

No, although better ones would help a little.

 or the phrase it does not look good, meaning it is a fake? 

No, I don't mean "it is a fake", I mean It is hard to tell from the photos, but it does not look like a good coin, even if it is genuine, which I doubt.

😎

[LawrenceChard]

1 hour ago, RDHC said:

You might like to compare your coin with its exact 1920 counterpart currently to be found on the MA-Shops website where it is advertised by the highly reputable firm of Kuenker. Looking at the two, it seems to me that the numerals in the date on yours are not quite right and that it lacks the detail found in the inner ear of the guy as shown on the Kuenker coin. There is also an apparent problem in that yours has an 'A' for its mintmark, whereas the other has a 'B', doubtless for Bogota. The only other mint in Colombia that I know of was at Popoyan in the Spanish imperial hey-day. There is a moderately large city called Armenia but it is nowhere near the size of Bogota, so it presumably did not merit its own mint, especially as it is not very far away from the capital.

I'm sorry to raise these doubts. I hope I can be proved wrong.

Good advice, and I think you are right!

😎

[CollectForFun]

Mint mark "A" is not a problem as it is a well documented mint mark for this coin, although also I was unable to find any information on which mint it denotes. My guess is that it could have been temporarily used for Medellin, or that it's the mint mark of the Paris Mint, which is known to produce other South American coins around that time.

Photos of a very well preserved specimen for comparison purposes e.g. here https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_1139397.

[Happypanda88]

You can do a specific gravity test on the coin. It should give you an indictation whether it is made of gold.

Have a look at the video for instructions.

 

[27carrots]

4 hours ago, CollectForFun said:

Mint mark "A" is not a problem as it is a well documented mint mark for this coin, although also I was unable to find any information on which mint it denotes. My guess is that it could have been temporarily used for Medellin, or that it's the mint mark of the Paris Mint, which is known to produce other South American coins around that time.

Photos of a very well preserved specimen for comparison purposes e.g. here https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_1139397.

A is in different place.

[beacon]

43 minutes ago, 27carrots said:

A is in different place.

True, in that photo.

However, the Colombia Cinco Pesos which is on NGC's website (though it's a 1921) has the "A" on the same location as my 1920.

Edited February 2, 2023 by beacon

[beacon]

FWIW: Took some macro shots. I will try to get it tested just for peace of mind.

[beacon]

1 hour ago, Happypanda88 said:

You can do a specific gravity test on the coin. It should give you an indictation whether it is made of gold.

Have a look at the video for instructions.

 

Thanks. Had no idea about this test. Just did it by tying dental floss around the coin and suspending it with my hand within a plastic bottle full of water. I got 17.30, so just a tiny bit below the density range table for 22k which is 17.45-18.24.

[CollectForFun]

1 hour ago, 27carrots said:

A is in different place.

Good catch, I was not going as far as comparing the coins in detail, but you are right about that, position is different. But based on some other images such as the one linked above it seems to be a travelling A ☺️

[beacon]

13 minutes ago, CollectForFun said:

Good catch, I was not going as far as comparing the coins in detail, but you are right about that, position is different. But based on some other images such as the one linked above it seems to be a travelling A ☺️

Yes, weird.

NGC, specifically says: "1920A Placement of A below coat of arms varies".

[Happypanda88]

1 hour ago, beacon said:

Thanks. Had no idea about this test. Just did it by tying dental floss around the coin and suspending it with my hand within a plastic bottle full of water. I got 17.30, so just a tiny bit below the density range table for 22k which is 17.45-18.24.

At specific gravity of 17.30, that's not far off for 22k gold. 

If you can get hold of a coin ping device, and the coin gives a long ping then you can almost be sure that the coin is made of gold and unlikely to be a fake.

 

 

[SidS]

On 01/02/2023 at 14:28, LawrenceChard said:

...alkali metals Li, Na, K, Rb, Cs, or Fr!

😎

Ah Francium, surely there'd be no house left!

[stefffana]

Hi.

I am 99% sure your coin is what should be, a genuine 1920 A mint 5 Pesos, but in circulated/a little tired shape.

Your gravity test is close enough, the difference is from your non-professional scale.

The writing is as should be for a circulated coin.

The mint A mark is in correct position.

I am not an expert, but in my eyes look legit.

I have compared with another pictures of a identical 1920 A 5 Pesos Colombia:

 

  and

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1920-A-COLOMBIA-PESOS-5P-GOLD-ANACS-CERTIFIED-MS-61-MINT-STATE-UNC-072-/133932907331?hash=item1f2f05fb43:g:qowAAOSwcSBhjvCT&amdata=enc:AQAHAAAAsHV34FIttka69MiT86Op6zG0Aq36RGY/uk7jRrqeGx3ASlYRSBTatsX5YfXwZvQWrCwbOI4mLxCaBxhUKM6CfoLEEJSGRv1bWfs3Lb0KEQxkUFoBW/nuvWnKc0Qu1u4vUrXW7suRO6aiYdb78I1sS8gQiB3KDqagu9wEAYDkUGVFmGT4fUw385lD+CnVJwPZDjCuLQawbKlBHVg9hngGky4GPxcZVrd9Ct2Aaz3ve2H6|tkp:Bk9SR9qlx7vCYQ&pageci=a24789e1-193d-4861-a5f3-bc4139c39201&redirect=mobile.

[beacon]

1 hour ago, stefffana said:

Hi.

I am 99% sure your coin is what should be, a genuine 1920 A mint 5 Pesos, but in circulated/a little tired shape.

Your gravity test is close enough, the difference is from your non-professional scale.

The writing is as should be for a circulated coin.

The mint A mark is in correct position.

I am not an expert, but in my eyes look legit.

I have compared with another pictures of a identical 1920 A 5 Pesos Colombia:

 

  and

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1920-A-COLOMBIA-PESOS-5P-GOLD-ANACS-CERTIFIED-MS-61-MINT-STATE-UNC-072-/133932907331?hash=item1f2f05fb43:g:qowAAOSwcSBhjvCT&amdata=enc:AQAHAAAAsHV34FIttka69MiT86Op6zG0Aq36RGY/uk7jRrqeGx3ASlYRSBTatsX5YfXwZvQWrCwbOI4mLxCaBxhUKM6CfoLEEJSGRv1bWfs3Lb0KEQxkUFoBW/nuvWnKc0Qu1u4vUrXW7suRO6aiYdb78I1sS8gQiB3KDqagu9wEAYDkUGVFmGT4fUw385lD+CnVJwPZDjCuLQawbKlBHVg9hngGky4GPxcZVrd9Ct2Aaz3ve2H6|tkp:Bk9SR9qlx7vCYQ&pageci=a24789e1-193d-4861-a5f3-bc4139c39201&redirect=mobile.

Thanks! I am also now a bit at ease after doing the gravity test (as well as your reply).

The coin is not in the best shape aesthetically, for sure. But, I am much more confident now that it is indeed real

[LawrenceChard]

1 hour ago, beacon said:

Thanks! I am also now a bit at ease after doing the gravity test (as well as your reply).

The coin is not in the best shape aesthetically, for sure. But, I am much more confident now that it is indeed real

There is little doubt that it is real. If you can see it, and touch it, it is almost certainly real.

What you probably need to know is whether it is genuine.

😎

[LawrenceChard]

3 hours ago, SidS said:

Ah Francium, surely there'd be no house left!

I don't think you would be able to find enough to cause any problems!

😎

[beacon]

1 hour ago, LawrenceChard said:

There is little doubt that it is real. If you can see it, and touch it, it is almost certainly real.

What you probably need to know is whether it is genuine.

😎

Hence, if it's real

[stefffana]

7 hours ago, beacon said:

Hence, if it's real

 

[LawrenceChard]

11 hours ago, beacon said:

Hence, if it's real

 

3 hours ago, stefffana said:

 

I disagree.

You have take an over-simplistic view based on a synonym of a secondary meaning.

😎