International Shipping Problems

[LawrenceChard]

I frequently see and hear about people having fun and games when trying to import precious metal in the form of coins or bullion bars.

Theoretically, imports of investment gold should be VAT exempt, and almost anything else is subject to VAT.

Although I / we are reasonably used to encountering problems which should not occur, it still happens, and far too often.

I thought I would share a brief exchange of Teams messages, in respect of a modest silver shipment from the USA:

[12/07 16:26] 12th July 2022
    customs docs sent 1/7/22 (1st July)

[18/07 11:20] 
    UPS track now saying it's cleared customs! (18th July)

[08:39] 
    UPS track now saying they're returning to sender (Today 15th July) 

[09:47] Lawrence Chard
    not again!
 

Question: Do we laugh or cry?

😎

[sixgun]

My brother has sent me a number of packages from the UK to Spain. This is post Brexit.
Sending into the EU is harder than sending to the UK.
Sending inside the EU is effortless. Life was so easy before Brexit (and i voted to leave).

He sent me about 15 litres of edible oil amongst other things - this was in two packages.
It took months after dozens of communications. In the end the parcels arrived. Most of the oil was lost. Several other items were lost. Quite a lot was damaged.
He sent some more oil, maybe a similar amount and it got held up in Madrid - then it was sent back to the UK. They said he couldn't send that much oil. Probably 5 litres would be ok.
So he sent 5 litres. It got held up and then was returned to the UK. You see 5 litres was too much.
So i still didn't get my oil.

i ordered some oil from America - i discover now i can only order one bottle at a time. i wanted 5 bottles, so it had to come in 5 packages - that would be 5 lots of shipping charges.

i have noticed the forms my brother includes on parcels haven't even been looked at. All the custom's decs are still undisturbed in the plastic envelopes. 
Now we include them on the parcel and send by email to UPS brokerages. We include power of attorney in Spanish and in the form legally required in Spain. When stuff comes Royal Mail / Correos i have an account and can fill all the paperwork in online. All the boxes are ticked - i have all the official numbers and pay the customs charges ahead of time. It's funny when you pay the parcels fly through. Things work well when i have ticked all the boxes for the box tickers and paid the official thieves their tribute. 

[Agaupl]

I’ve been ok in Australia (so far) keeping below the $900 limit but that basically means gold is impossible even though by rights bulllion is exempt. I’m not risking it as the tax office seems to charge first and ask questions later. Rules don’t seem to matter 

[GoldStatue]

I always find it funny looking at the tracking on parcels being sent to the UK from the US, they seem to get sent all over the country before crossing the Atlantic.

I seem to remember one being sent from the west coast to the east coast and back to the west before being flown over the pond.

 

[Jvw]

Shipping from UK to Europe is rubbish also. Nothing but problems with investment gold from the UK to EU for me tbh. All packages (even the ones with a large Customs note saying the coins are investment gold coins and VAT free) are being hold at Dutch customs for weeks. Finally i receive an invoice to pay vat plus import duties. Before i can fight the invoice i need to pay first. 

After payment they ship my my coins but they come with weeks (and in a couple examples MONTHS) of communication, arguing and pleading with Customs, Dutch Tax-office and the shipper.

I am still waiting for my VAT/Import reimbursement from a coin I bought in an UK auction in October..... 

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by Jvw

[marston59]

I sent coins in January 2022 to PCGS in France, held in customs for 8 days before delivery. they sent to US for grading recieved 09/02/2022.

Coins have now been sent back to PCGS in France but have spent so far another 14 days in French customs.

When they do clear customs they will be in UK customs for another 10 days plus.

This is all down to customs wanting to charge 20% on all parcels.

I could spend days talking about FedEx and UPS. 

[Pete]

No different than trying to get on holiday crossing the channel then ...
 

Edited July 25, 2022 by Pete

[chasetyre]

I try very hard not to buy or sell abroad now that's it such a lot of hassle.

Saying that I accidentally sold a coin to the US on ebay last month (I forgot to turn off the international shipping).

I was in two minds to send it or just give the buyer a refund. I warned them it could take months to arrive.

I sent it in the end and was amazed that it was delivered within a 5 days, no hassle no problems.

[dikefalos]

Since i stopped using FedEx/UPS/DHL service for custom clearance i never had issues with german customs again. Never had any problems with parcels from the Royal Mint, Chards, Sovereign Rarities, East India Company, ukgoldcoins, etc., coming straight to my home and i pay customs at postie. Sometimes there are problems with the customs declaration of private sellers and i have to pick the coins at the customs up. Usually two, three hours waiting time, than they do research for value, tooks sometimes another hour and than they charge it. Easiest way for new coins is to declare them as a gift with the retail as value. If you declare to low, you propably pay more, because the customs than takes eBay!!!, or worst as reference for value. Over the years i met a lot of custom officers that are collecting coins themselves and they ask before opening the package, if it is base metal, silver, gold, collectable, official currency, etc. But my biggest issue buying from private sellers outside EU is, that i have to pay two times VAT. Dealers and mints are selling VAT free to Europe and i have only to pay my local customs. Sometimes dealers are using kind of special scheme and i pay VAT direct to the dealer, without german customs to charge me again. However, it must be a very good prize, or the mint for retail, to make me buying outside the EU. It's just annoying, waiting weeks for your coins and see them travelling around, before they reach my little coin box.

[LawrenceChard]

5 hours ago, sixgun said:

My brother has sent me a number of packages from the UK to Spain. This is post Brexit.
Sending into the EU is harder than sending to the UK.
Sending inside the EU is effortless. Life was so easy before Brexit (and i voted to leave).

He sent me about 15 litres of edible oil amongst other things - this was in two packages.
It took months after dozens of communications. In the end the parcels arrived. Most of the oil was lost. Several other items were lost. Quite a lot was damaged.
He sent some more oil, maybe a similar amount and it got held up in Madrid - then it was sent back to the UK. They said he couldn't send that much oil. Probably 5 litres would be ok.
So he sent 5 litres. It got held up and then was returned to the UK. You see 5 litres was too much.
So i still didn't get my oil.

i ordered some oil from America - i discover now i can only order one bottle at a time. i wanted 5 bottles, so it had to come in 5 packages - that would be 5 lots of shipping charges.

i have noticed the forms my brother includes on parcels haven't even been looked at. All the custom's decs are still undisturbed in the plastic envelopes. 
Now we include them on the parcel and send by email to UPS brokerages. We include power of attorney in Spanish and in the form legally required in Spain. When stuff comes Royal Mail / Correos i have an account and can fill all the paperwork in online. All the boxes are ticked - i have all the official numbers and pay the customs charges ahead of time. It's funny when you pay the parcels fly through. Things work well when i have ticked all the boxes for the box tickers and paid the official thieves their tribute. 

Interesting.

We also do all the required stuff, several times a week for different consignments. There should be no excuse for the couriers to get any of it wrong, yet it happens very frequently.

We have "trained" the shippers on what is needed for UK customs, including product codes procedure codes, etc., and they generally get it right. Possibly because the items are slightly unusual for the couriers, they often **** up completely, enter gold as taxable, silver as exempt, or simply fail to connect our "paperwork" with the consignment.

Again, we are quite used to all this, and patiently re-send and re-submit documents, but sometimes couriers still manage to screw up!

😎

[LawrenceChard]

5 hours ago, Agaupl said:

I’ve been ok in Australia (so far) keeping below the $900 limit but that basically means gold is impossible even though by rights bulllion is exempt. I’m not risking it as the tax office seems to charge first and ask questions later. Rules don’t seem to matter 

Yes, Customs officers worldwide seem to believe their mission is to extract as much money as possible.

If in doubt, charge.

Let the customer / victim do all the hard work of trying to claim it back if it is wrong.

I often suspect than many of them work on targets or commission.

😎

[LawrenceChard]

5 hours ago, GoldStatue said:

I always find it funny looking at the tracking on parcels being sent to the UK from the US, they seem to get sent all over the country before crossing the Atlantic.

I seem to remember one being sent from the west coast to the east coast and back to the west before being flown over the pond.

 

Most Americans seem to be very limited in their geographical knowledge.

Blackpool? Is that Blackpool Canada?

London England? Is that in New England?

😎

[LawrenceChard]

4 hours ago, Jvw said:

Shipping from UK to Europe is rubbish also. Nothing but problems with investment gold from the UK to EU for me tbh. All packages (even the ones with a large Customs note saying the coins are investment gold coins and VAT free) are being hold at Dutch customs for weeks. Finally i receive an invoice to pay vat plus import duties. Before i can fight the invoice i need to pay first. 

After payment they ship my my coins but they come with weeks (and in a couple examples MONTHS) of communication, arguing and pleading with Customs, Dutch Tax-office and the shipper.

I am still waiting for my VAT/Import reimbursement from a coin I bought in an UK auction in October..... 

 

We seem to have opened a can of worms here!

😎

[LawrenceChard]

2 hours ago, marston59 said:

I sent coins in January 2022 to PCGS in France, held in customs for 8 days before delivery. they sent to US for grading recieved 09/02/2022.

Coins have now been sent back to PCGS in France but have spent so far another 14 days in French customs.

When they do clear customs they will be in UK customs for another 10 days plus.

This is all down to customs wanting to charge 20% on all parcels.

I could spend days talking about FedEx and UPS. 

In my experience, Fedex are the worst, although apparently Hermes are even worse.

Perhaps should rebrand themselves as Herpes!

😎

[LawrenceChard]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

No different than trying to get on holiday crossing the channel then ...
 

Thousands of people manage it every week on small boats!

... Although some do experience boating accidents!

😎

[LawrenceChard]

4 hours ago, Jvw said:

Shipping from UK to Europe is rubbish also. Nothing but problems with investment gold from the UK to EU for me tbh. All packages (even the ones with a large Customs note saying the coins are investment gold coins and VAT free) are being hold at Dutch customs for weeks. Finally i receive an invoice to pay vat plus import duties. Before i can fight the invoice i need to pay first. 

After payment they ship my my coins but they come with weeks (and in a couple examples MONTHS) of communication, arguing and pleading with Customs, Dutch Tax-office and the shipper.

I am still waiting for my VAT/Import reimbursement from a coin I bought in an UK auction in October..... 

 

I hope it gets sorted for you!

😎

[LawrenceChard]

2 hours ago, chasetyre said:

I try very hard not to buy or sell abroad now that's it such a lot of hassle.

Saying that I accidentally sold a coin to the US on ebay last month (I forgot to turn off the international shipping).

I was in two minds to send it or just give the buyer a refund. I warned them it could take months to arrive.

I sent it in the end and was amazed that it was delivered within a 5 days, no hassle no problems.

They'll get you next time!

😎

[LawrenceChard]

2 hours ago, dikefalos said:

Since i stopped using FedEx/UPS/DHL service for custom clearance i never had issues with german customs again. Never had any problems with parcels from the Royal Mint, Chards, Sovereign Rarities, East India Company, ukgoldcoins, etc., coming straight to my home and i pay customs at postie. Sometimes there are problems with the customs declaration of private sellers and i have to pick the coins at the customs up. Usually two, three hours waiting time, than they do research for value, tooks sometimes another hour and than they charge it. Easiest way for new coins is to declare them as a gift with the retail as value. If you declare to low, you propably pay more, because the customs than takes eBay!!!, or worst as reference for value. Over the years i met a lot of custom officers that are collecting coins themselves and they ask before opening the package, if it is base metal, silver, gold, collectable, official currency, etc. But my biggest issue buying from private sellers outside EU is, that i have to pay two times VAT. Dealers and mints are selling VAT free to Europe and i have only to pay my local customs. Sometimes dealers are using kind of special scheme and i pay VAT direct to the dealer, without german customs to charge me again. However, it must be a very good prize, or the mint for retail, to make me buying outside the EU. It's just annoying, waiting weeks for your coins and see them travelling around, before they reach my little coin box.

I'm glad to hear the Chards ones arrive OK.

Who are those other people you buy from?

😎

[LawrenceChard]

On 25/07/2022 at 11:19, LawrenceChard said:

I frequently see and hear about people having fun and games when trying to import precious metal in the form of coins or bullion bars.

Theoretically, imports of investment gold should be VAT exempt, and almost anything else is subject to VAT.

Although I / we are reasonably used to encountering problems which should not occur, it still happens, and far too often.

I thought I would share a brief exchange of Teams messages, in respect of a modest silver shipment from the USA:

[12/07 16:26] 12th July 2022
    customs docs sent 1/7/22 (1st July)

[18/07 11:20] 
    UPS track now saying it's cleared customs! (18th July)

[08:39] 
    UPS track now saying they're returning to sender (Today 15th July) 

[09:47] Lawrence Chard
    not again!
 

Question: Do we laugh or cry?

😎

An quick update:

Yesterday 16:43

notified (supplier)

 

Today [10:00] 

 

UPS claiming they're returning to sender because of "invalid information on the exporting documents." You'd think they'd check this before exporting from the United States in the first place

(Supplier) will re-send it to us once they receive it today/tomorrow.

😎