Background check and reasonable value?

[Dawnbreaker]

There are these two 5 Franc coins I have been eyeing for a while. They are from the Napoleon III period. Both damaged, the 1858-A has a clear dent and the 1863-A has a hole in it. So the seller was offering them at a discount. However the seller still had a higher price in mind then everyone was willing to give. Apparently he had a change of mind and now wants to renegotiate with me as I was apparently the highest bidder. What do you people think the both of them are realistically worth? They seem "F" to me but man.....the damage. I want to run this past you people as I might be either too optimistic or too pessimistic and I want to have a clear number in my head for the renegotiation. If it even comes to that as in the meantime I have shifted my target to a scratched golden Richard Nixon medallion but the seller has little to no information about it so I am hoping maybe somebody here could fill me in.  

Edited December 31, 2021 by Dawnbreaker

[richatthecroft]

Melt value. Thats my appraisal.

I don’t think they are worth anymore than melt, and I personally wouldn’t buy them at melt.  If I was you, I would walk away.

[Kookaburracollector]

Probably the worst condition coins I have ever seen offered for sale, per the advice above….not worth scrap value IMHO.

[CollectForFun]

I concur with the above, don't buy such damaged goods unless you are ready to treat these coins as piece of metal only and unless you get corresponding price, which in this case means several % below melt value.

Even if you are tight on your budget, you will have much more joy from owning a nice coin instead, even if it costs a few euros more. There are plenty of French and Belgian francs and Dutch guldens around available for little premium and often in great condition from which you can choose instead...

[Mrpound]

Agreed with all the above, melt value but I wouldn't buy these, you can get a lot nicer stuff at a few % over spot 👍

When it comes to you selling them you will do well to get your investment back (if you can)

[richatthecroft]

@Dawnbreaker- Further to my earlier post- careful if you are still interested in the items you describe above, as I suspect that Nixon medal might well be Gold plate:

 

[Dawnbreaker]

Thanks all for your input. I guess my gut feeling was right then after all. I didn't offer much above spot but looking back at it I already thought I was pushing it. I think I will let the offer pass me by. 

 

11 hours ago, richatthecroft said:

@Dawnbreaker- Further to my earlier post- careful if you are still interested in the items you describe above, as I suspect that Nixon medal might well be Gold plate:

 

 

@richatthecroft, thanks for the warning. I was a bit worried about that since so little was known about it and the variety in commemorative medals about U.S. presidents is mind boggling. I still think it is the real deal though. At the "seal of the presidency"-side below the tail you can see three identification marks. The one most to the right is the symbol of the NI, the Numismatica Italiana, I guess they either minted it or at least certified it. But since my Italian is less than rudimentary, the medal being in far less than perfect condition and me not being particularly invested or interested in Nixon's presidency I decided to leave the investigation and the medal to someone more eager.

Safer to stick to "coins" for the time being anyhow. Nonetheless thank you for looking out for me.  

[CollectForFun]

@Dawnbreaker, I think I have just seen the same 5 francs listed at Catawiki, so I assume they were relisted after you did not accept the seller's offer the first time?

Anyway, I would like to say that in my experience, Catawiki is pretty bad place for buying gold coins like this. Most historic gold coins that are offerred there are usually either in not very good condition, or the reserve price is too high, which is no wonder, if the seller needs to pay 12.5% provision. And so coins, fair premium on which should be 5-10% over spot, have reserve price set at 10-20% over spot, which some crazy buyers are still willing to bid, on top of which they however still need to pay 9% buyer's charge! Not mentioning postage, which is also often excessive.

It feels so bad, seeing people bid so much e.g. for modern restrikes, which could be sourced quite cheaper and in better condition and safer directly from the mint or from any dealer nearby. The same with common LMU coins, e.g. French rooster 20 francs, sold at €340 reserve + 9% buyer's charge + postage = over €380 a piece. The only winner is Catawiki, collecting 21.5% from every trade. I know bidding is fun, but really, beware! If a coin, which should carry a 5-10% premium, is listed at a platform operating with 21.5% margin, you are unlikely to get a good deal...