Fake and Imitation Coins from China

[LawrenceChard]

United States of America One Ounce Silver Bar Bison / Buffalo Design

One troy ounce of German silver.

Today's "Chinese Fake":

and the reverse:

Slightly confusing (or Confucius) why a USA themed bar would say "German Silver"!

Here is our Niton XRF test result:

Apart from my error,  Ni twice,

It shows about 80% copper, 17% Iron, 3.5% Nickel, and 0.3% Cobalt, yet it looks quite convincing. It also comes in its own capsule. There is no trace of silver.

It's weight works out about 31.61 grams, which is slightly overweight, so should arouse suspicion.

This bar could fool anyone without an XRF machine, except...

IT IS MAGNETIC! Using a neodymium magnet, the bar is very strongly attracted.

So, save the £16,000 cost of an XRF machine, and invest in a £2 rare earth magnet.

We rarely use the magnetic test, but it is a very quick, cheap, easy, certain method of detecting fake coins or bars which have a high iron content.

Although it is not quite clear, the magnet has attached itself to the bar through its plastic capsule.

Credit: finger model = Ava.

 

 

Edited October 7, 2021 by LawrenceChard

[Bruce06]

I wanna buy some magnets now...will your shop sell it or as a gift with purchase for certain sum of soveriegns😆?

[LawrenceChard]

10 hours ago, Bruce06 said:

I wanna buy some magnets now...will your shop sell it or as a gift with purchase for certain sum of soveriegns😆?

We won't be selling the fake bars.

It might be a good idea for us @ChardsCoinandBullionDealer to do an offer of neodymium magnets, but I can tell you we got ours from https://www.first4magnets.com/neodymium-t137

As this bar was made somewhere just over the border from you, do you see many fake coins and bars in Hong Kong?

[Bruce06]

Yes, there are many fake coins in the coins mall, but mainly are Chinese coins.  Maybe due to high price for these Chinese coins and market is there for potential buyers. 

For bars, I didn't notice any fake there, maybe not popular here.

[greendragon]

On 01/10/2021 at 12:41, LawrenceChard said:

Prices range from £3.46 to £64 with 11 bids from 3 different bidders.

you might want to update this part!!!!!!

look at the price now, with a day to go

[LawrenceChard]

1 hour ago, greendragon said:

you might want to update this part!!!!!!

look at the price now, with a day to go

Here goes:

 

£8000!

Quick, someone from TSF get round to the seller's house with my Chinese fake, and ask him £100, or £1000 for it, he might think he is about to win the jackpot twice! 😎

Soemone is going to be disappointed!

The 1936 listing for £300 is also crazy, it's almost good enough to call knackered!

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by LawrenceChard

[dicker]

I have some magnets from the supplier mentioned by @LawrenceChard.  I have not bought from eBay or elsewhere but I have to say the ones I have are absolutely brilliant. 
 

They chip relatively easily so try not to let them smash together.  With big magnets you have to be v careful not to get injured when they come together.  
 

I am told that the big ones stop the wheel of the old style of electricity meters is placed next to them.   No idea if that’s true….

Best 

Dicker

[dicker]

The photo of the lady’s hand with the magnets and the knock off bar is compelling.  It should have a title “This is why you don’t buy from eBay”

[Bruce06]

25 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

Here goes:

 

£8000!

Quick, someone from TSF get round to the seller's house with my Chinese fake, and ask him £100, or £1000 for it, he might think he is about to win the jackpot twice! 😎

Soemone is going to be disappointed!

The 1936 listing for £300 is also crazy, it's almost good enough to call knackered!

 

The price of 1936 is too good to be true😅.

Btw, this seller (with many different names) has been discussed in another forum.  He/She found so many 1933 penny in past few years, I think he/she must be super rich right now😅

[dicker]

I read the listing but it took some perseverance to decipher the “English”. 

I have every patience for those folk who give English a try when it is not their first language.  I suspect, however that the seller was born and bred in the United Kingdom, and is simply thick, a crook grifting a living on eBay.  
 

Best

Dicker

[dicker]

What a curious coincidence….

The listing even contained a reference to a clock…..

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-1701374/Mystery-of-80k-1933-penny-withdrawn-from-eBay.html

[dicker]

The link seems not to work for me but here is a fragment of the text from the article.  
 

At last, a 1933 penny bearing the head of King George V has surfaced - on the eBay internet auction site. 

Experts have always worked on the assumption that only seven such coins were minted and, if genuine, this one would be worth at least £80,000. 

By yesterday, bidding had reached a little over £1,100 (plus £4.95 postage) while the owner, listed as Suzanne X, failed to respond to email requests for more information. 

The seller, based in Isleworth, West London, has an impeccable trading record with 100% positive feedback. The 1933 coin was one of 16 pennies being sold as a job lot. 

The auction was due to end at 9.13pm tomorrow, with a flurry of further bids expected in its dying seconds. However, last night it was mysteriously cancelled without explanation. 

The listing, complete with misspellings, had stated: 'These pennys was found in my grandfathers house. The story my grandfather told me they came of Big Ben. 

'They was used to weight the penderlumif the clock was running fast or removed them if running slow. He used to service Big Ben. He retired in 1968. Sorry the photos are not clear. But you are bidding on the job lot. Selling no reserve, as I dont no a thing about coins. Good luck and happy bidding.' 

A number of people showed interest in the coin and the seller subsequently posted more images which showed the 1933 date clearly. It is certainly the case that old pre-decimal pennies are still used today as part of the balancing mechanism of Big Ben to ensure it keeps the correct time. 

There is a possibility, although slim, that one of the 1933 coins would have been used in this way.

[LawrenceChard]

22 hours ago, greendragon said:

you might want to update this part!!!!!!

look at the price now, with a day to go

 

21 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

Here goes:

 

£8000!

Quick, someone from TSF get round to the seller's house with my Chinese fake, and ask him £100, or £1000 for it, he might think he is about to win the jackpot twice! 😎

Soemone is going to be disappointed!

The 1936 listing for £300 is also crazy, it's almost good enough to call knackered!

 

Listing has now ended, with "winning" bid £8,000

Let's watch out for feedback on it! 😎

 

[Bruce06]

1 hour ago, LawrenceChard said:

 

Listing has now ended, with "winning" bid £8,000

Let's watch out for feedback on it! 😎

 

Must be a positive one undoubtedly😅

[LawrenceChard]

1891-CC USA Gold Double Eagle Carson City Mint - Today's Featured Chinese Fake Coin

and the reverse:

Niton XRF Analysis:

This is a very obvious imitation. The weight is only 17.7924 grams compared with 33.44 grams for the genuine article.

Value of the real thing would be $50K to $100K, being one of the rarest Carson City Mint dates.

Should fool nobody!

 

[dicker]

Thanks @LawrenceChard They got the CC on this Double Eagle wrong.  The C and C are far too widely spaced apart, denticles wrong etc etc.

 

 

[LawrenceChard]

5 hours ago, dicker said:

Thanks @LawrenceChard They got the CC on this Double Eagle wrong.  The C and C are far too widely spaced apart, denticles wrong etc etc.

 

 

Those will be minor details when someone decides to sell one on ebay.

They will probably call it a very rare mint error, but I don't know anything about coins, so I will start the auction at £0.99

😎

[LawrenceChard]

1644 Charles I Gold Triple Unite Oxford Mint Declaration Type

Obverse
King left, crowned, armoured and draped, holding sword and olive branch, Oxford plume

Lettering: CAROLVS.D:G:MAG:BRI:FRA:E.HIBER:REX

Reverse
Declaration on continuous scroll, three plumes above, date and mint below

Lettering:
EXVRGAT.DEVS.DISSIPENTVR.INIMICI

RELIG:PROT:LEG:ANG:LIBER.PAR:

1644

Weight 27 grams.

Value if genuine £50K+

This is of course a Chinese fake in brass, although gold plated ones are available.

Sourced from AliBaba for under £3 including postage.

Weight 24.08 grams

... and the reverse:

Niton XRF test result:

A fairly typical brass alloy, with no gold plating detected.

As there was a small iron content, I also tested it with a neodymium magnet, with zero attraction detectable.

This is today's Chinese fake, acquired for educational purposes, as are the rest of the "coins" in this thread.

AcCtualy, it might be more accurate to describe this as an imitation or replica coin, as it would be difficult to mistake it for the genuine article, excpet on ebay where it would be described as an extremely rare coin, worth £100,000 but for sale to the highest bidder over £50. Being ebay somebody would probably be stupid or greedy enough to buy it.

😎

[steve3jant]

On 05/10/2021 at 13:05, LawrenceChard said:

It might be a good idea for us @ChardsCoinandBullionDealer to do an offer of neodymium magnets, but I can tell you we got ours from https://www.first4magnets.com/neodymium-t137

I’m new to the world of buying. I cannot afford a top of the range testing device. I have looked at the magnets on the site @LawrenceChard mentioned. There are so many to choose from. Which one ones should I be looking at purchasing. Thanks in advance

[LawrenceChard]

1 hour ago, steve3jant said:

I’m new to the world of buying. I cannot afford a top of the range testing device. I have looked at the magnets on the site @LawrenceChard mentioned. There are so many to choose from. Which one ones should I be looking at purchasing. Thanks in advance

I also found the choice to be greater than I expected. Just go for one which is big enough for you to be able to grip, but small enough to be practical, and affordable.

I chose a pack of 3, and I can't tell you which size because I am at home, and they are all at our showroom.

I thought we had got a photo of one in use, or attached to the top of our Niton tester, but can't find one.

I hope this helps.

😎

 

[steve3jant]

Thanks anyway @LawrenceChard . I've taken the plunge and bought one from the site specifically for sorting gold and silver jewellery. I'm sure that will do the job checking the validity of a few coins I bought off eBay before I discovered this forum.

[LemmyMcGregor]

On 27/08/2022 at 10:44, steve3jant said:

I’m new to the world of buying. I cannot afford a top of the range testing device. I have looked at the magnets on the site @LawrenceChard mentioned. There are so many to choose from. Which one ones should I be looking at purchasing. Thanks in advance

They are usually present in hard drives, if you have any old hard drive they are usually easy to dismantle.

[StackemHigh]

On 04/10/2021 at 21:47, LawrenceChard said:

I agree with you that it is quite funny that the Chinese copy a non-existent coin design. It's a compliment in one sense to the creativity of the I.N.A. designer.

Maybe the rm should be in touch as the designers they have at the moment ain't that good.

[LawrenceChard]

25 minutes ago, StackemHigh said:

Maybe the rm should be in touch as the designers they have at the moment ain't that good.

I wouldn't be quite that harsh on the RM!

😎

[Silverlocks]

2 hours ago, LemmyMcGregor said:

They are usually present in hard drives, if you have any old hard drive they are usually easy to dismantle.

This varies - the glue is strong enough that it can be hard to get them off the mu-metal frame without breaking them.  The Neodymium alloy is quite brittle.  Recovering old neodymium magnets from hard drives is one of my old guilty pleasures, now fading into the past as we transition to SSDs.

Still, the ones you can buy off the interwebs are pretty cheap these days.  Don't get your fingers pinched though - even small ones are stronger than you might think.