buysilvercoins.eu - do you know this web?

[ChrisSilver]

Merged and moved to General Precious metals section as they sell other metals and not only silver.

[Tritoon01]

@thesongofthunder any update ? Was searching the net for some 10 oz bars and came across this (these) company (ies).....thank god I first checked TSF for info !!!

[werewolf]

Nothing. They received my cleared payment on 15 April 2020. No update since then. I think you would be better off avoiding this dealer.

[songofthunder]

3 hours ago, Tritoon01 said:

@thesongofthunder any update ? Was searching the net for some 10 oz bars and came across this (these) company (ies).....thank god I first checked TSF for info !!!

Glad my comments helped you regarding this company. They gave me a term of 4 to 5 weeks. I will write back once the time is getting closer. 

[songofthunder]

2 hours ago, werewolf said:

Nothing. They received my cleared payment on 15 April 2020. No update since then. I think you would be better off avoiding this dealer.

Let’s hope we will receive our products eventually. If not we can team up with complaints. I pretty sure they won’t like this situation. 

[Tritoon01]

@werewolf @thesongofthunder thx !! yes it sure did. Hope everything works out !! Has nobody else done some transactions with this firm(s) ?

[werewolf]

Any update from this seller ? It's been 5 weeks for my order already and absolutely nothing...

[daca]

@thesongofthunder and @werewolf did you guys receive the coins/tracking number/ any updates?

[werewolf]

1 hour ago, daca said:

@thesongofthunder and @werewolf did you guys receive the coins/tracking number/ any updates?

Well..This is a long story. I will build up on the information together with @thesongofthunder and make a lengthy post about this. But in very few words for now: No, we did not receive anything and this is a SCAM.

A pretty elaborate scam involving multiple websites and companies. We will write more about this soon.

[daca]

Sorry to hear that.  Hope you guys will manage to get the money back.

Have you consider involving a lawyer and/or the police?

[werewolf]

1 hour ago, daca said:

Sorry to hear that.  Hope you guys will manage to get the money back.

Have you consider involving a lawyer and/or the police?

No, the sum is too low for an attorney. But I am planning on submitting a complaint with the authorities in the UK. 

[songofthunder]

A couple of months ago, I came across the following online store https://buysilvercoins.eu/  more exactly 19th of April 2020 and so it looked trustworthy and I purchased a tube of silver coins. At the checkout there were two options to make the payment: bank account to a CurrencyFair account (which is used for sending money with a better exchange rate) and BitPay, so, since a bank transfer would take ages, I have went ahead and tried a couple of times to make that payment (not a very intuitive system). In the end I managed to make the payment through the BitPay service: "You paid CC Holdings LLC 0.061930 BTC on 19/04/20" in Euros €400. The next working day I tried to get in contact with that company phone number. Unexpected, but it wasn't working, than I emailed the company and got the following answer in the same day:

Dear Sir,
Thank you for your email.
We will cancel the requested unpaid orders.
I estimate that the delivery of the remaining order will take 4-5 weeks.
We shall notify you when the tube of coins is available for dispatch.
Kind regards,
James

 

So, the time has passed and no answer, I have emailed back and got a new term of delivery:

Dear Sir, 
Thank you for your email.
We expect to dispatch your order to you within the next ten business days.
When the order is ready for dispatch, we shall notify you of the tracking number.
Thank you again for your business.

Kind regards,
James 

 

Many weeks later, keeps going:

Dear Sir,
Thank you for your email.
I apologise for the longer delivery time, some of our shipments have been delayed.
We shall dispatch your order to you as soon as possible and notify you of the UPS tracking number.
Thank you again for your business.
Kind regards,
James 
 

 

That being said I started to do a little research and found out that the owner's name is John Michael Christopher (Note, that is a public information) and that he had and has many companies in the UK that are dormant and liquidated.

I assume he is using them for a scam system he created. If you look at the yearly incomes of those companies, they are way too small for such an economic activity.

A list of the companies he owns - https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/officers/UhoUdvQR8N7vzUYoH5X3WyNLy14/appointments and https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/officers/3_pQVHuc93Hbw1J9UpdssgJKtfM/appointments

 

• EURO ATLANTIC TRADING LIMITED (10838836)  https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10838836/filing-history
• SUISSE GOLD LIMITED (10347122) https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/officers/UhoUdvQR8N7vzUYoH5X3WyNLy14/appointments
• CC TRADING (LONDON) LIMITED (08599049) https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08599049
• AU TRADING (EUROPE) LIMITED (08579459) https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08579459

He is using and used these companies for the following online web shops:

• https://www.suissegold.ch/ Suisse Gold LTD
• https://buysilvercoins.eu/ Euro Atlantic Trading LTD
• https://buygoldcoins.eu/ Euro Atlantic Trading LTD
• https://golddirect.com GoldDirect Europe | Atocha

Here is how he probably does those dodgy things: he sells products that he never owns and he never intends to order for the clients. Therefore, once the client is fed up waiting for the products to arrive and asks for a full refund then he points out that he can do a refund but it will deduct a 100€ or 100£ tax as stated into the terms and conditions. The thing is that on https://buysilvercoins.eu there is no such condition.

 

Also, I found these scammed clients on TrustPilot, the exact same way @werewolfand me were scammed.

Check it out here: https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.suissegold.com

 

If there is someone here that can help us with some suggestions, what should we do to take action against his scam websites and entire "operation"?

I believe there are plenty more websites that we didn't discover yet. So, if someone has a new website please add it to the list.

 

I will be filing a report / complaint on Action Fraud Police UK against this guy.

https://www.actionfraud.police.uk/

 

Cheers! 

I hope this post will save others from being scammed!

 

 

 

 

[werewolf]

Long post, beware...

Here is my story.
Ordered on www.buysilvercoins.eu on 10th April 2020 a box of 20 Britannia 2020 BU coins.
Price was 18.31 eur/coin plus 31.36 postage. Total was 397.55 euro.
And here is the timeline of the events.
FRIDAY 10/04 - Order placed and received automatic reply for order receival and invoice with bank details to make the payment.
FRIDAY 10/04 - ME: "Hello ! I made an order and already sent you the money. It will probably arrive until 15th April. 
thank you!".
FRIDAY 10/04 - HIM: Dear Sir, Thank you for your email. We shall notify you when we receive your payment. Thank you again for your business. Kind regards, James"
SATURDAY(!) 11/04 - HIM: Dear (MYNAME), Thank you for placing #3720285 with us. Please let me know when we may expect to receive your payment? Kind regards, Customer Service"
SATURDAY 11/04 - ME: "Good morning!I paid yesterday, so I belive the money will arrive on  15th April at the latest. After payment is received, how long does delivery usually take? Considering present situation. Thank you ! " - Here I was starting to get just a bit suspicious... 
MONDAY 13/04 9.48 AM - HIM: "Dear Sir, Thank you for your email. We shall notify you when we receive your payment. Due to the current situation, please allow at least 28 days for your order to arrive. We shall notify you of the tracking number when the order is dispatched. Kind regards, James" - standard answer, nothing out of the ordinary.
MONDAY - 2nd EASTER DAY!!! - 13/04 4:00 PM - HIM: "Dear (myname), Thank you for placing #3720285 with us. We have not received your payment for the above order - Kindly provide us with an update? Kind regards, Customer Service" - this is ridiculous, it's been 0 workdays and already expecting the money to be in their account? Getting more suspicious...
MONDAY 13/04 4:15 PM - ME: "Hello. As I have already said in my 1st and 2nd email to you, payment has been ordered on the evening of 10th of April which was a friday. It is an international bank transfer, it can take between 1 and 5 business days for the payment to arrive. Revolut (my bank) has estimated that it will arrive by 15th April. Today is monday 13th, only 1 day has elapsed. The transfer still appear pending in my account. Please wait a few more days. As I recall, payment by debit card which would have been instant was not available on your website. Thank you." - Pretty annoyed.
MONDAY 13/04 4:55 - ME: "Attached bank statement for your information. And appears that today was not a work day in the UK(where my bank is from) so the transfer could not have taken place anyway. Have a great day! Happy Easter !" 
TUESDAY 14/04 - HIM: "Dear Sir, Thank you for your email. We shall notify you when we receive your payment. Kind regards, James"
* PAYMENT WAS PROCESSED ON 14/04, I was notified by Revolut. He received the money on the 14th.
TUESDAY 14/04 - ME: "Transfer has been executed. Thank you"
WEDNESDAY 15/04 - ME: "Please confirm that you have received my payment for order #3720285. Thank you." - Now I am a little anxious to get him to confirm he got my money...
THURSDAY 16/04 - HIM(AUTOMATIC REPLY): You have received this notification from Buy Silver Coins because you are a registered user or you or some other registered user requested some information for you from our store. Dear Mr. (MYNAME), Your order has been processed successfully.
THURSDAY 16/04 - ME: "Hello ! Could you please provide an update on my order?  order is: #3720285
I saw that the payment has been received, but I am wondering about delivery. 
And could you please confirm that I will get 20 x 1 oz  silver Britannia BRILLIANT UNCIRCULATED coins? This is what I saw and added to my basket.Thank you !"
FRIDAY 17/04 - HIM:"Dear Sir, Thank you for your email. We have received your payment - The delivery timescale is 4-6 weeks at the moment. 
We shall notify you of the tracking information as soon as it is available. Kind regards, James"
...............................
And time passed....After 5 weeks:
TUESDAY 19/05 - ME : "Dear Sir, Regarding order #3720285. Almost 5 weeks have passed since you received cleared payment (15th April 2020) and still no delivery, nor tracking number. Please provide me with an update or consider refunding me. Thank you!"
WEDNESDAY 20/05 - HIM: "Dear Sir, Thank you for your email. Your order is being processed and will be dispatched to you within the next five business days. When the order is dispatched, we shall notify you of the tracking number. Thank you again for your business. Kind regards, James"
FRIDAY 29/05 - ME: "7 working days have passed since your last email. Still no dispatch. 6 weeks and 2 days since receiving cleared payment.Can I please have my money back ?" - 1st refund claim.
FRIDAY 29/05 - HIM: "Dear Sir, Thank you for your email. I apologise for the fact that there has been a delay with your order. The Brtiannia coins were held-up in customs. We can ship the coins to you late next week or we can offer you a refund. If you would like to receive a refund, please provide us with your bank details and we'll organise it for you. Thank you again for your business. Kind regards, 
James" - customs??? Bullshit, all countries involved in this are part of the EU, so no customs...coins are minted in the UK, his company is in the UK, coins are allegedly held in Estonia and I am from Romania. 
FRIDAY 29/05 - ME: "OK. I will wait until Friday 5th June. If no dispatch until then, I will send you the bank details for refund. Thank you" - I gave him another chance
FRIDAY 05/06 - ME: "Hello. All your promised delivery times have expired.I would now like to get a refund.
My bank details are : XXXXX, I expect 397,55 €. Thank you"  -  A clear request for refund
SUNDAY 07/06 - ME: "If it's easier, you may transfer the money - 397.55 euro - to this account, based in the UK. (BANK DETAILS)" - just to make things easier..
MONDAY 08/06 - HIM: "Dear Sir, Thank you for your email. I apologise for the delay, we will ship your order to you this week and notify you fo the tracking information when the goods are dispatched. Thank you again for your business. Kind regards, James" - wtf, I've just asked for my money back!
MONDAY 08/06 - ME: "No more apologies and no more delays. I am asking for a refund. I've already sent you 2 accounts in which you may send the money." - trying to make things clear...

And these are all the conversations I had with this fraudulent business. As for the company details, @thesongofthunder pointed out that there are many companies owned or controlled by the same person doing fraud like this... 

Also , I cannot refrain from saying that I am a bit disappointed that I did not come across any information on this forum regarding fraudulent PM dealers like this one...There should be a blacklist somewhere...And believe me, I don't mean to judge anyone or how things work on the forum. 

Any advices for us ?

[songofthunder]

22 minutes ago, werewolf said:

Quote

The Britannia coins were held-up in customs. 

The coins are minted by The Royal Mint Limited 2019 - Ynysmaerdy, Pontyclun CF72 8YT,
they don't need to clear any customs!

That's a terrible lie !

 

[Clens92]

A little digging on Companies House will reveal a solution...

John Michael Christopher

Correspondence address

 

11 Coleman Fields, Islington, London, N1 7AD

 

I know what I'd be doing; there are also people on Facebook groups (I won't name them, but they can be found) who will recover debts in the UK for a % of the debt.

 

Edit: I should add, I found this on his Cohen & Christopher directorship.  If this does fail to provide a residential address, you need to start digging for an online trail for him or his fellow directors - they're likely to be on Facebook / Insta given their ages, they'll probably have mutual friends (and likely follow each other or be friends).  Build the picture... there's nothing wrong with scaring wrong'uns like this.

[songofthunder]

7 minutes ago, Clens92 said:

A little digging on Companies House will reveal a solution...

John Michael Christopher

Correspondence address

 

11 Coleman Fields, Islington, London, N1 7AD

 

I know what I'd be doing; there are also people on Facebook groups (I won't name them, but they can be found) who will recover debts in the UK for a % of the debt.

Unfortunately he has multiple addresses: 

20-22 Wenlock Road, London, England, N1 7AD - year 2013 until present

1 Ropemaker Street, London, England, EC2Y 9HT - year 2013

11 Coleman Fields, Islington, London, N1 7AD - year 2000 - 2006

 

[Clens92]

1 minute ago, thesongofthunder said:

Unfortunately he has multiple addresses: 

20-22 Wenlock Road, London, England, N1 7AD - year 2013 until present

1 Ropemaker Street, London, England, EC2Y 9HT - year 2013

11 Coleman Fields, Islington, London, N1 7AD - year 2000 - 2006

 

But...

20-22 Wenlock Road is a business address, actually proven by the High Court to be a base for fraudulent companies: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/high-court-orders-six-more-bogus-multi-million-pound-companies-into-liquidation

1 Ropemaker Street is a business address.

11 Coleman Fields is a residential address...  I know which one I'd be turning up to.   Hint (IT'S THIS ONE)

 

[songofthunder]

I have dig deeper and found out that on https://golddirect.com/ the company that is specified on the contact page, actually doesn't exist : Gold Direct Europe Atocha. 

You can check it out here https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/search?q=Gold+Direct+Europe+Atocha

But instead if you search for the company registration number that is specified there: 12194249, you find out that it is a different company named: SOLIDSAVERS LTD
and big surprise it is registered on the same address: 20-22 Wenlock Road, London, N1 7GU, United Kingdom, just a different owner name : "Guido Jean-Paul VAN STIJN"
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/12194249

Is it paranoia or it is a very close coincidence on the birthday dates for both "fictive owners" May and June 1983 ? !

 

Not to mention that this guy before he had the following websites:
http://autrading.co.uk/ that was closed and now it only redirects to https://buygoldcoins.eu/home.php
http://autrading.ee does the same thing but to https://buysilvercoins.eu/

 

What do yall' think of this ?!

 

GoldDirect Europe | Atocha

20-22 Wenlock Road
London, N1 7GU
United Kingdom

Narva mnt 5
Tallinn city, 10117
Estonia

Phone #: +44 757 216 6448

Email: customer-care@golddirect.com

CoC 12194249 | 14919770

 

 

[songofthunder]

So, guys I have dug even deeper, it looks like all the companies he is using are bogus and the address, including the IP locations are not valid.

Therefore, whoever will make a purchase on those websites, they will never see the products nor the money back.
Again I will post the list, I suspect that there should be even more than what I have got so far:

• https://www.suissegold.ch/ Suisse Gold LTD
• https://buysilvercoins.eu/ Euro Atlantic Trading LTD
• https://buygoldcoins.eu/ Euro Atlantic Trading LTD
• https://golddirect.com GoldDirect Europe | Atocha
• https://autrading.co.uk
• https://autrading.ee

I have filed an action fraud report for the online crime.
Let's hope they will catch whoever is behind this. And take down all "Jame's" websites. 

I believe police will be able to trace him only through the money payments. Either crypto or bank transfer to a CurrencyFair account or BitPay account.

[songofthunder]

I am currently investigating the data between the hosting company and the real owner.

Name: buysilvercoins.eu
Address: 80.79.126.186

Name:    buygoldcoins.eu
Address: 80.79.126.186

Name:    suissegold.ch
Address: 159.69.41.86

Holder    CC Investments LLC
Christopher John
Ram's Office Complex
Stoney Grove, Box 822
KN-0 Nevis
Technical contact    CC Investments LLC
Christopher John
Ram's Office Complex
Stoney Grove, Box 822
KN-0 Nevis
Registrar    EuroDNS S.A. 
DNSSEC    no
Name servers
ns11.cloudns.net
ns12.cloudns.net
ns13.cloudns.net
ns14.cloudns.net
First registration date    28 October 2008

The CC Investments LLC company appears it doesnt exist. And the address is bogus as well. Probably related to a Ram's food something.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/search?q=CC+Investments+LLC
Not sure if it is the Nevis Islands or Kitts and Nevis. If someone can shed some light here.

Name:    golddirect.com
Address: 142.93.137.135

This domains appears to be registered in NL , same fake owner... same site and scamming system

Name:    autrading.co.uk
Address: 176.10.104.103

Name:    autrading.ee
Address: 159.69.37.63

 

[daca]

This is a horror story, hope you guys manage to get back the money. 

[werewolf]

In a mind-boggling twist of events, it happened that today I got a full refund for my order...I still can't believe it..and certainly did not expect it. 

I'm very happy ! I had considered the money as lost. Big, big lesson learned here for me...

Bottom line...stay AWAY from all the sites listed above by @thesongofthunder and anything that has its address 20-22 Wenlock St. , London.

[BackyardBullion]

30 minutes ago, werewolf said:

In a mind-boggling twist of events, it happened that today I got a full refund for my order...I still can't believe it..and certainly did not expect it. 

I'm very happy ! I had considered the money as lost. Big, big lesson learned here for me...

Bottom line...stay AWAY from all the sites listed above by @thesongofthunder and anything that has its address 20-22 Wenlock St. , London.

Amazing stuff, let's hope that songofthunder also gets a refund.

Let's also hope that the scammer has seen this thread and knows what a massive paper trail he has left for the authorities to follow.

[Kraken]

I actually tried to order from this site, but I couldn't because it said that there was something wrong with my address... I was annoyed at the time but it sounds like I got lucky! I'm glad to hear that you got a refund @werewolf, could have been a much more expensive lesson for both of us. Here's hoping that @thesongofthunder gets their money back too.

[songofthunder]

I thought I should share this