Buying Silver in the UK

[scubajunky]

HI all,

I want to buy silver but am not sure if I should buy coins or bullion.

I have also been made aware via youtube of people buying silver in the UK from Germany and avoiding 20% tax in the process.

Is this possible ? 

Any tips and advice, much appreciated.

Thanks in advance

[BackyardBullion]

@scubajunky Welcome to the forum!

Yes indeed buying from Europe is much cheaper than from UK dealers. 

You can get cheaper still by joining my group order. 

 

[scubajunky]

Thanks, who do you buy from ?

Is it legal to buy from Europe and avoid the tax ? 

Has anyone ever been caught out ? 

Is silver bullion the way forward or coins only ? 

Can anyone recommend a good book or website on the topic ? 

[Thelonerangershorse]

2 minutes ago, scubajunky said:

Thanks, who do you buy from ?

Is it legal to buy from Europe and avoid the tax ? 

Has anyone ever been caught out ? 

Is silver bullion the way forward or coins only ? 

Can anyone recommend a good book or website on the topic ? 

This month, The European mint.

Yes.

No.

Coins can have the advantage of being tax free when you sell.

The Silver Forum.

[scubajunky]

So coins are tax free but bullion is not. And i can just go along and buy from the European mint no problem? 

[PansPurse]

It's totally legal because of the European free market. No tax borders (for now at least, Brexit could bollocks it up a bit) means that we can import as much as we like from Europe and it's totally above board.

[scubajunky]

Awesome, do you only buy coins ? how do you pay ? anyone use Revolut to pay them ? 

[Roy]

Wow! it took me a long time to find this information and you found it within 18 minutes!

?

[PansPurse]

Just now, scubajunky said:

Awesome, do you only buy coins ? how do you pay ? anyone use Revolut to pay them ? 

I'm mostly coins (UK bullion coins are exempt from capital gains tax, which isn't a major factor but nice to know) I find them more interesting than bars, but it's mostly individual preference.

I generally pay by bank transfer, PayPal or credit card depending on who I'm buying from

[augur]

11 minutes ago, scubajunky said:

Awesome, do you only buy coins ? how do you pay ? anyone use Revolut to pay them ? 

Used Revolut with various german dealers (including Muenzdachs) and goldsilver.be; haven't ordered from European Mint other than via BackyardBullion.

You can buy coins and bars. Check prices as they will vary and joining the group order helps to safe postage on small orders. Large orders you might want to do directly to lock your order when spot is favourable; many dealers allow to combine shipping. 

[scubajunky]

Thanks to everyone for their help, Roy, no point in Fking about, straight to the point, get the questions asked !!!! lol

So the consensus of opinion here is if you are in the UK just buy from the European mint  ?

That will get me the best price.

[StackerNoob]

5 minutes ago, scubajunky said:

Thanks to everyone for their help, Roy, no point in Fking about, straight to the point, get the questions asked !!!! lol

So the consensus of opinion here is if you are in the UK just buy from the European mint  ?

That will get me the best price.

Its not just the european mint, although it is fast becoming one of the leading suppliers and is the focus of the current group order.

 

There are others too that I have used, namely

goldsilver.be

coininvest.com

eldoradocoins.de

 

The coins and bars are much cheaper than they would be in the UK becuase of the tax difference. You dont have to pay our tax rate of 20% if you have paid the tax rate of the country you are buying from as a member state of the EU. So dont worry about tax issues at all. The main issue is actually delivery fees, which can be really off-putting. 

But as pointed out already, group orders here are a great way of avoiding those large delivery fees.

 

Welcome to the forum btw!

[Tn21]

Its great to you have opted to look for info first via the silver forum rather then going out to the market place directly. I went and bought a bit directly (BIG mistake) when I was new to silver and paid vat on top by using some of the known bullion dealers in the UK. Just to put it into context some of the bullion coins I bought were roughly £21-£25 an Oz at the time. Now if you buy without paying VAT you could really get a good price roughly £14 onwards an Oz. 

[scubajunky]

That's great, thanks for the info.

So the price of Silver now is £11.75

The Cheapest coin is 15 EU and the most expensive is 26EU for a 1 oz coin.

Now I'm confused ? what to buy?

What coin is a safe bet ?

How much would one have to buy to make the postage fee worthwhile ? 

 

[Martlet]

40 minutes ago, scubajunky said:

So coins are tax free but bullion is not. And i can just go along and buy from the European mint no problem? 

Bullion is any precious metal in basic, low premium generic form, coins or bars. Basic silver coins like Britannia's, Noah's Arks, US Eagles are bullion.  Many coins are considered semi-numismatic, like Kookaburra, Lunar series, have a collectable quality and a larger premium over spot.  Bars seem to always have premiums. 

The tax situation is vague, but entirely legal, suffice to say purchases from many European sources are reducing the VAT taxes considerably.  Anyone can buy from anywhere in EU and import to UK or elsewhere in EU freely.  Watch out for postage costs though you need to spend £80+ at a time to see any saving.  UK mint coins are CGT free... if you ever have to worry about £11k of profits in one year.

Best source is to read back a few years worth of posts on the Silver Forum to get a really broad range of information and views. 

 

[Tn21]

8 minutes ago, scubajunky said:

That's great, thanks for the info.

So the price of Silver now is £11.75

The Cheapest coin is 15 EU and the most expensive is 26EU for a 1 oz coin.

Now I'm confused ? what to buy?

What coin is a safe bet ?

How much would one have to buy to make the postage fee worthwhile ? 

 

I think an option you should explore is Backyard bullions group order, he is the guy who responded first to this thread. Have a read of his July/August group order thread and maybe go for some Britanias or anything you that falls within your budget and like the look of. Just order a few maybe just to get the feel of coins and then you can always go again from there on. 

Just an advanced warning and you will come across this in the forum, buying Precious metals can also be addictive so buy right and sit tight.

 

[BackyardBullion]

21 minutes ago, scubajunky said:

That's great, thanks for the info.

So the price of Silver now is £11.75

The Cheapest coin is 15 EU and the most expensive is 26EU for a 1 oz coin.

Now I'm confused ? what to buy?

What coin is a safe bet ?

How much would one have to buy to make the postage fee worthwhile ? 

 

Best thing is to really have a think about why you want to buy silver in the first place.

Are you saving for retirement, flipping in a few years for profit ? Lots of scenarios

One thing to understand, silver and gold is not a get rich quick scheme. Silver and gold preserve wealth and the buying power of your money. Don't depend on them to make you a numbers return, think of them as a savings vessel.

Last thing I always say to new people is to buy and budget not to have to sell your silver until your goals. If you are forced to sell quickly you will lose money. Dealers will pay spot price or less for the silver and even with the cheap silver from the EU mint you will still be paying 15-20% over spot.

I like the advise of the others above, buy a few now, get the feel of it. Learn as much as possible - not just my videos (but I am biased to my own channel!) Watch as many as you can and learn.

Good luck and if you want to join the order let me know!

[bluemoon]

As an addendum to the current VAT discussion, I'm not so comfortable about the CGT free Brittanias either. Certainly I don't buy them feeling relaxed about not being expected to pay CGT upon selling, and the law doesn't protect you from CGT. These things change with a stroke of a pen (just like the VAT was slapped on with the stroke of a pen) and knowing how trigger happy the UK governments are on matters of tax, I can see it being a sure vote winner to close that 'loophole' that those pesky gold and silver hoarders have been enjoying without giving their fair share of flesh.

So that said, I would buy Phils and get more raw silver in pure weight terms. Up to you though.

[kimchi]

I seem to remember folk asking UK bullion dealers why they don't take advantage of the marginal VAT scheme to compete with their European competition...iirc there was no reply.

Anyway! @scubajunky you haven't said you are interested in semi-numismatics or potential semi-numismatics (new premium coins some up constantly, and while there have been 'winners' in general like Kooks that is not always guaranteed, and with these new coins going forward many of us are taking a punt).

So I'd look at basic bullion as close to spot price as possible. At one point a few months ago that was the Athenian Owls, but I'm not a fan myself (seem like toy money to me). Before that it was Perth Mint Roos which had quality issues on my one order, at another point it was Somalian Elephants which are lovely coins but do tend to milk spot. For basic bullion though that is not a concern really, you are putting faith in the intrinsic value of the metal, which imvho is way underpriced for now, so I'd say take advantage while you can!

As @Tn21 says, you are very lucky you found this place before spending any money! I too bought (quite a lot ) from UK dealers before I joined here and found the marginal VAT from Europe scheme.

I think from what you've said (that you are dipping your toe in the water) would either go for the cheapest possible, British coins like Britannias (CGT free) or perhaps consider paying a little premium to get a slightly nicer coin that may do better when you come to sell. I'm not sure what the difference is now but the Oriental Britannias were less than a pound extra over the generic bullion version, higher quality coins, and came in capsules, so may retain some premium in the years to come. 10oz Kooks can sometimes be had for about £150 quid which is very decent imho even when just viewed as bullion.

Perhaps consider a number of different coins and get possibly one or two of each via the group buy run by @BackyardBullion to see what you like and get a feel for what approach you are most comfortable with for the moment. And/or also get a tube (or whatever you can afford) of cheap as chips bullion, because the price right now is great for us buyers.

For the group buy there's no minimum that makes it 'worthwhile' - the beauty of it is it works out cheap just for a few coins. But if you are looking at say a kilo total plus it may be just as cheap/slightly cheaper to go direct and then you have the direct paper trail with the retailer.

I've had an order from El Dorado (Germany) for the first time today. Their postage was great (£8 something for 20 coins and goes down to as little as £5 which from Germany is really good imo).

[BackyardBullion]

4 minutes ago, kimchi said:

I seem to remember folk asking UK bullion dealers why they don't take advantage of the marginal VAT scheme to compete with their European competition...iirc there was no reply.

Anyway! @scubajunky you haven't said you are interested in semi-numismatics or potential semi-numismatics (new premium coins some up constantly, and while there have been 'winners' in general like Kooks that is not always guaranteed, and with these new coins going forward many of us are taking a punt).

So I'd look at basic bullion as close to spot price as possible. At one point a few months ago that was the Athenian Owls, but I'm not a fan myself (seem like toy money to me). Before that it was Perth Mint Roos which had quality issues on my one order, at another point it was Somalian Elephants which are lovely coins but do tend to milk spot. For basic bullion though that is not a concern really, you are putting faith in the intrinsic value of the metal, which imvho is way underpriced for now, so I'd say take advantage while you can!

As @Tn21 says, you are very lucky you found this place before spending any money! I too bought (quite a lot ) from UK dealers before I joined here and found the marginal VAT from Europe scheme.

I think from what you've said (that you are dipping your toe in the water) would either go for the cheapest possible, British coins like Britannias (CGT free) or perhaps consider paying a little premium to get a slightly nicer coin that may do better when you come to sell. I'm not sure what the difference is now but the Oriental Britannias were less than a pound extra over the generic bullion version, higher quality coins, and came in capsules, so may retain some premium in the years to come. 10oz Kooks can sometimes be had for about £150 quid which is very decent imho even when just viewed as bullion.

Perhaps consider a number of different coins and get possibly one or two of each via the group buy run by @BackyardBullion to see what you like and get a feel for what approach you are most comfortable with for the moment. And/or also get a tube (or whatever you can afford) of cheap as chips bullion, because the price right now is great for us buyers.

For the group buy there's no minimum that makes it 'worthwhile' - the beauty of it is it works out cheap just for a few coins. But if you are looking at say a kilo total plus it may be just as cheap/slightly cheaper to go direct and then you have the direct paper trail with the retailer.

I've had an order from El Dorado (Germany) for the first time today. Their postage was great (£8 something for 20 coins and goes down to as little as £5 which from Germany is really good imo).

Wise words ?

[PansPurse]

Oh @BackyardBullion with your sad face reaction. You know full well your pieces are far more than mere 'bars' of silver ?

[BackyardBullion]

2 minutes ago, PansPurse said:

Oh @BackyardBullion with your sad face reaction. You know full well your pieces are far more than mere 'bars' of silver ?

Whoopsie, that was not the emoticon I meant to put on your comment...

[PansPurse]

Btw quick clarification on different taxes:

VAT, value added tax, in the UK that is 20% added to the price of anything silver (gold is exempt).

CGT capital gains tax is a tax you pay if you profit from selling something (but only kicks in once you've used up a certain allowance, which I think is several thousand pounds, hence not a big deal for me). It's something like 18% of the profit. This is small potatoes compared with VAT, but worth bearing in mind if you're looking at stacking a lot, say as part of retirement planning.

[kimchi]

10 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

Wise words ?

Blame it on the hundredth monkey effect from hanging around with you sensible lot, something like that 

Right, I shall get back to my poor quality innuendo posts that are my (banana) bread and butter, let normal service resume!!!

[Thelonerangershorse]

You're not supposed to mention the addictive bit till they've had the first hit.