LawrenceChard

That theory was flawed. Before people started finding valuable uses for platinum, it was almost considered as a useless by product, and its value was less then gold. This explains why fake platinum sovereigns exist, see: https://www.chards.co.uk/blog/fakes-forgeries-and-counterfeit-gold-coins-and-sovereigns/167 Platinum Forgeries Between the 1860's and about 1881, platinum was used, in Spain, to counterfeit gold coins including sovereigns. These were apparently made to order for a North American, the coins being mainly destined for use in South America. Although platinum is denser than gold, by alloying it with an appropriate amount of copper, it can be brought to the correct density. It was then gold plated, and apparently made very effective counterfeits. The practice is believed to have stopped only because the price of platinum rose to an uneconomic level. It is likely that the fakes would be worth more now than the originals. Platinum fake sovereigns have been recorded of shield sovereigns dated between 1861 and 1872.

Fake George II and George III copper coins are also highly collectable, with some possibly more valuable than the genuine article. They are also interesting, and can be quite entertaining, particularly with blundered legends.

What if it's a fake of a fake of a fake? Stop that, this is getting ridiculous! (nod to Monty Python) 🙂

Thanks for adding the link.

Thanks for the mention. As a professional numismatist, I consider it essential to study fakes, and to learn to know the difference. I also recommend it for collectors, stackers, and investors, thereby becoming numismatists in the process. If the study of fakes is worthwhile, then collecting them also becomes worthwhile, although it would not be for everybody, but then we are all different. It is possible to control the caratage of plating, so a clever forger could ensure that his fakes were plated using 22ct gold, and could also fine tune its precise alloy constituents to mimic authenticity. Fortunately, Niton XRF machines are calibrated to detect gold plating, although I doubt this is infallible. Other brands of XRF machines probably also include similar technology.

It would have been preferable to post a screenshot of the ebay item, and possibly also the photos, as ebay remove listings after about 90 days. As often, I had already published information about platinum being used to create counterfeit sovereigns. This is one link https://24carat.co.uk/frame.php?url=platinumcoins.html but I see another TSF member has already included a similar link from one of our other websites.

The first post in this thread states "Here we can put up pics of our bars, photos only and no comments", so my lips are sealed. I always conform with rules... ...unless they are dumb, in which case... yes, but we only have one as far as I know, and I suspect it is an old, and possibly highly collectable one.

Quite right, and note I was careful to say "most" and not "all". It only needs one.

I just read this, and thought "that was an excellent answer", before I looked at who wrote it! 🙂

You should ask at least double on ebay. They will probably look like a bargain compared with "London Coins" and others. Don't forget most people who buy on ebay are stupid! 🙂

Yes, there is. It's called a scam. (I am only / mainly joking) 🙂

... and we do have 15,000 bought and paid for, which we are awaiting delivery. Without checking, I don't know relevant dates, but our forecast stock balance is healthily positive, but we would have also been happy to acquire more with the aim of covering future sales between now and delivery, all balanced out against a few other key bullion prooducts, in the daily "balancing" act we have been doing since the start of Covid. In "normal" times, it is quite easy, but with most bullion deliveries getting delayed, we probably need a few million pounds extra invested in bullion stock. I checked my back pocket, but there wasn't enough. 🙂

We were offered 5,000 today for June delivery by a major distributor, but they were about £1 each more than our usual cost premium, so we declined. The distributor said no problem they could easily sell them to a US dealer. We prefer not to increase our selling premiums. We did say we would take 10,000 20,000 or more to get the right price, but no deal. This helps to explain why you can usually get some if you don't mind paying a higher price, but to my mind, it does not make good sense to pay more than necessary when investing.

Gold One Ounce Accept no Substitute! ♫♪ I was born with a plastic spoon in my mouth ♫♪

All the kilo golds we've had looked OK, same with the silver. 🙂

Shoot that man! ... or turn him into a BigMac 🙂

Thanks for the explanation. 🙂

I know this is a late response, only just seen it. No, we don't use click bait. We have a page explaining Special Scheme, here: https://www.chards.co.uk/blog/special-scheme-gold-and-silver/259

Is this for real? Is there a problem? "Your content will need to be approved by a moderator"

I was a little pre-occupied trying to come up with a concise answer to a Newbie question: I know you could have done it quicker! 🙂

That works out about a 67% premium, but the Monnaie de Paris are not renowned for being cheap, although their coins are usually nice, with good production quality. It's been a long time since I remember us having any in stock, but, at a guess, you might get lucky for as little as about 10% if you are patient.

I see you have already received a few replies from like-minded people, and as usual the advice contains a number of varying opinions. There are probably similar posts and questions most days. I sometimes give some input, but I prefer to give answers which are as complete and comprehensive as possible. This means they are long and time-consuming. In the pre-historic early days of the internet (1998), I started to add advice and opinion pages to our "new" website. Now it belongs in a museum, and not all of the old content has been ported over to our newest site. I thought about giving you a link to our "Newbie" advice page, but realised it needed updating, so I just wrote the first draft of it, which will get added to our site soon. Here it is: https://www.chards.co.uk/blog/precious-metals-information-and-advice-for-newbies/1008 (link added 18th June 2021) Meanwhile I am happy to give you a preview, complete with typos: Newbie Information and Advice For people thinking about starting to collect, invest, or stack coins or precious metal bullion. First, ask yourself some questions: What is your prime goal? Interest in the historical or numismatic aspects of coins. Investing to make a maximum return. Investing to protect wealth against inflation, etc. Most interested in: Coins as numismatic items. Precious metal content of coins and bars. Metal Preference: Most interested in: Gold Silver Platinum Palladium Open minded Budget How much do you intend to invest? Lump sum or regular purchase? Timing Want to start now, or ASAP Wait until prices come down. Wait until prices go up. Home Base Where do you live, which country, state, etc. Legal considerations. Is what you want legal to buy or import in your country. Tax considerations. In the UK and EU, “Investment Gold” is exempt from VAT. Other precious metal coins and bars are subject to VAT in the UK and EU. In the USA, there may be sales tax in some states. Secure Storage It is worth thinking about how and where you intend to store your stash. For small amounts, this might not be much of a problem, but for higher values, you might need to think about a safe, alarms system, and insurance. Some banks may still offer safe deposit boxes, and safe deposit companies also exist. Check whether your insurance can include these. Alternatively, some companies now offer secure storage usually including insurance. If the storage is in a favourable tax regime, this may also legally avoid VAT on silver, platinum and palladium. Charges vary. Bear / Bull Market Cycles. Very few people can accurately forecast future precious metal prices, including many people who think they know. If you don’t know, then you are not alone, and at least your are not deluding yourself that you do know. Relative Merits of Gold, Silver, Platinum, and Palladium As a UK based dealer, we obviously concentrate on the UK market, but we do have a number of non-UK customers and suppliers, so while we are aware of some international markets, most of our thoughts relate to the UK. Gold is the only one of the four precious metals which is exempt from VAT in the UK and EU, so it is the most obvious metal to choose for investment. Its unique VAT status is probably because it has historically been a monetary metal, renowned for retaining its value, and a range of other factors. Silver is the other historic monetary metal, but because it is subject to VAT, we do not recommend it as a prime investment metal. It does have its enthusiastic supporters though, and it is relatively affordable. Platinum and palladium are the other two precious metals, although both metals are newbies compared with gold and silver. Both are also subject to VAT. Gold:Silver and other ratios. The ratio of gold to silver prices has had a profound influence on monetary systems for thousands of years, until the last century, when “fiat” currencies have prevailed. It is worth getting familiar with the current, and also historic gold:silver ratios. This will help you to decide between gold, silver, a different metal, or a combination. Production Costs Gold has a well-established international market, as does silver to a lesser extent, platinum and palladium markets are smaller and less liquid. Mining is the most obvious production cost of any metal, but refining and other processing costs also come into play. Gold is cheap and easy to process in relation to its value. Silver is worth much less than gold, but the cost to manufacture a one ounce coin, for example, are not much less than for a similar gold coin, which explain why the percentage premium for silver coins or bars is generally higher than for gold. Platinum and palladium are more difficult to process, so their percentage premiums are also usually higher than for gold. Transport costs are also a higher proportion for silver than for gold. Silver requires more space to store compared with its value, so storage costs are also higher. Coins or Bars? I’m primarily a coin dealer, so I prefer coins, but there are other good reasons to choose coins rather than bars. Coins have tax or legal advantages in many countries compared with bars. Coins are issued by countries, bars by companies. I hesitate to suggest you trust governments rather than companies, but think about it. Coins are mass produced, and are usually available in a selection of different weights at competitive prices. One ounce coins are a universal choice in modern bullion coins, and hit a “sweet spot” for premiums, but historic coins such as British gold sovereigns (approximately quarter ounce) are also available competitively. Many other countries have their own traditional historic coins which are worth considering. Bars are also made in many sizes, and you should expect to pay slightly lower premiums for bars rather than coins. The biggest “small” gold bar is one kilo, and should usually be the cheapest bar to buy (in percentage premium terms), however the differential is quite small, and for most investors, smaller sizes such as one ounce, as a better long-term buy. They are more liquid, as more people can afford them, easier to post (and insure), an important consideration when you want to sell. Premiums Whenever I talk about premiums, unless otherwise stated, I mean percentage premiums. This is the simplest way to compare value. If you don’t understand percentages or simple maths, then I recommend getting a few quick lessons, and a little effort. Education is always a good investment. My general advice: Buy at the lowest premium within reason. If you have read most of the above, you will understand what I mean, and why. Changes Most of the advice I give is generalised. There is a good reason for this. Things change. When I wrote this paragraph heading, I started singing the David Bowie song. Markets are constantly in a state of flux. For this reason, what is good specific advice on Monday morning might not be the same by Friday night. Changes occur over long timeframes of centuries and decades but also happen on shorter timescales of years, months, weeks, days, hours, and even minutes. Gold went up about $10 in a few seconds after the first plane hit on 9/11. These changes include political, financial, fiscal, personal, local, international. News and Hype I spend a lot of time reading news. I call it working. In recent years, I have become more aware that most of what I read is written by vested interests, lobby groups, “influencers”, and the like. It is not easy, but try to discern whether facts are accurate, and to work out whether the “news” is coming from an “interested party”. It is often easy to detect hype and bullshit. Be aware that we are all prone to believe what we want to hear rather than what we do not want to hear. Big Spenders and Small Savers If you have big money to invest, you should have more choice of “best buy” deals. If you are a small saver, it will be harder for you to get the “sweet spot” for value, so you might have to work a little harder. Big Dealers or Peer-to-Peer If you want to buy 100 ounces of gold, then almost everyone would agree go to a big, reputable dealer. Chard in Blackpool, England are not the biggest, but are one of the best (I am biased). You can have confidence that what you are buying is genuine. If you only have a few hundred dollars (more or less) to invest, then you might actually get the best deals shopping around, perhaps on a well-known forum. It is not quite as easy to be certain that what you buy is genuine, but as I said, you may need to work a little harder. You may be able to find a dealer or scheme which will let you buy small amounts of gold, silver etc., regularly, then switch it into physical when you have enough metal in your account. Who, What, and Where to Avoid Although it is possible to buy on ebay, it is fraught with danger, riddled with fraudsters, ripe with hype, and probably better avoided, unless you like a gamble. Similar with other auction sites, and private advertisers. Local auctions can work, and are probably better than ebay, after all it wouldn’t be difficult. Local coins dealers might work out for you. Jewellers, pawnbrokers and scrap dealers are probably better avoided. Often they don’t know and don’t care if coins are genuine, and many of their coins are sourced from scrap jewellery, and are sub-standard. Coin Marketing Companies (CMCs) You will see national newspaper and television adverts for these. Most of them market brand new coin issues at (high) premium prices. Many of these are very gimmicky, the world’s first, biggest, smallest, weirdest, latest, rarest. If you want to buy this stuff, then reading what I say will probably not stop you, but make sure you really want to buy it, and don’t be surprised if nobody is interested when you come to sell, even at half your cost price or less. Most of the CMC’s do not make a market, and will not buy (or buy back) coins, possibly because they don’t want you to realise they have ripped you off. Some CMCs offer introductory deals (only $49.99 for the next 30 days, $99.99 “normal” price), others do loss leaders, usually restricted to 1 coin per household. This is to get your name on their “suckers” mailing list. They may also try the highly unethical, sometimes illegal, “bait and switch”, in which your personal account manager will try to convince you to buy pre-1933 gold coins telling you they are non-confiscatable. Ask yourself has he really got your best interests at heart, or is he trying to boost his commission, or keep his job? The guy at the local pub. Also best avoided. Links and Resources: Gold price https://www.chards.co.uk/gold-price/gold-price-per-ounce Gold:Silver ratio https://www.chards.co.uk/gold-silver-ratio Other prices and ratios are linked from the above. You can select different currencies, units of weight, and timescales. We also have hundreds of other advice pages on our site, as well as on our older “heritage” sites. Errors and Omissions If there is anything I have missed out, please let me know. If there are any other questions you would like answering, please submit them on the back of a £50 note, $100 bill, €500 banknote or similar.

You're too quick. It took me 10! 🙂

We have a page here about restrikes: https://www.chards.co.uk/blog/restrike-gold-sovereigns-and-other-coins/168