Show Us Your Fakes Database

[Organics]

Hi All,

Coin - 1905 Double Edward VII Sovereign. 

So I thought it would be a good idea for those of us who have fakes to post them on here. It would be good to state what tests you did and photos of the results. This will help us all to increase our knowledge and build a database of dates, coins, medals, etc, which are known to have been faked. 

So let me kick off. 

Yesterday I was at my coin dealer and he gave me a fake, 1905, Edwards VII, double sovereign to look at. I asked him if I could take it home to study it and post on here. 

Firstly the detail on the coin doesn't look as refined. However as I'm no expert I put it on the scale. As you can see it was more or less acceptable, and so I'd give it a pass. Then I used the digital calipers. As you can see it was bigger than it should be, so this was a fail. Then I tried the ping test. As you can see it passed, although it was tested for a full sovereign and not a double. However still a pass in my opinion. However the big giveaway was the Sigma. Big fat FAIL!!!. So as you can see. Unless you're an expert in handling and seeing sovereigns for many years (which I'm not), and don't have the testing kits (thank God I do), this could have fooled many. 

Check out the pictures and let me know your thoughts. 

Look forward to building a database that we can all refer back to.

***Please list the red flags and tests you carried out, to confirm the coin/bar posted is fake***

Best. 

T. 

Edited February 11 by Organics

[Orpster]

1855 Shield Sovereign

 

 

 

Edited February 11 by Orpster

[Orpster]

1913 Perth

 

1922

 

[Orpster]

1906 fake in fake PCGS slab

[Organics]

2 minutes ago, Orpster said:

1906 fake in fake PCGS slab

Thank you for sharing @Orpster. What made you question these particular coins? Especially the one in the slab. 

Just now, Organics said:

Thank you for sharing @Orpster. What made you question these particular coins? Especially the one in the slab. 

It would be good for all of us to know what to look out for 

[Orpster]

1 minute ago, Organics said:

Thank you for sharing @Orpster. What made you question these particular coins? Especially the one in the slab. 

The slabbed coin is the most obvious fake of the bunch, it was posted on Facebook recently by a seller.
I told him I thought it was fake, he had it checked, and got confirmation it was.  Its one of the most obvious fakes I have ever seen

[SovereignBull]

7 minutes ago, Orpster said:

1913 Perth

 

1922

 

What are the tell tale signs on the 1922? From my untrained eye it looks reasonably ok apart from the lustre 

[Orpster]

Just now, SovereignBull said:

What are the tell tale signs on the 1922? From my untrained eye it looks reasonably ok apart from the lustre 

You mean apart from the fact there were no 1922 London sovereigns?

[Zhorro]

1 minute ago, SovereignBull said:

What are the tell tale signs on the 1922? From my untrained eye it looks reasonably ok apart from the lustre 

No mint mark.

[SovereignBull]

1 minute ago, Orpster said:

You mean apart from the fact there were no 1922 London sovereigns?

Hahahaha I didn’t even look in my book I was just looking at the coin design itself. My historical knowledge is as you can see awful 

[Organics]

5 minutes ago, Orpster said:

The slabbed coin is the most obvious fake of the bunch, it was posted on Facebook recently by a seller.
I told him I thought it was fake, he had it checked, and got confirmation it was.  Its one of the most obvious fakes I have ever seen

Clearly you understand what to look out for, but many don't. Not only am I trying to help myself, but also those who want to avoid making costly mistakes. It would be good if you could explain to those reading this thread, what were the red flags that made you know straight away that this was an obvious fake. To my untrained eye it looks fine and is slabbed. So I would have thought it good. 

[Orpster]

1 minute ago, Organics said:

Clearly you understand what to look out for, but many don't. Not only am I trying to help myself, but also those who want to avoid making costly mistakes. It would be good if you could explain to those reading this thread, what were the red flags that made you know straight away that this was an obvious fake. To my untrained eye it looks fine and is slabbed. So I would have thought it good. 

First and most obvious us the hair and beard, it is just completely wrong, just compare it to a real Edward sovereign

Second is the grade, if that were a genuine coin it would be an MS grade

Third is  the slab, it does look like one of the older gen slabs but it has the circles on the wrong side

Real on the left, fake on the right

 

[Organics]

1 minute ago, Orpster said:

First and most obvious us the hair and beard, it is just completely wrong, just compare it to a real Edward sovereign

Second is the grade, if that were a genuine coin it would be an MS grade

Third is  the slab, it does look like one of the older gen slabs but it has the circles on the wrong side

Real on the left, fake on the right

 

Brilliant. Thank you for the insight 🙏

[modofantasma]

17 minutes ago, Organics said:

Clearly you understand what to look out for, but many don't. Not only am I trying to help myself, but also those who want to avoid making costly mistakes. It would be good if you could explain to those reading this thread, what were the red flags that made you know straight away that this was an obvious fake. To my untrained eye it looks fine and is slabbed. So I would have thought it good. 

One thing you could do when considering a purchase is to image search for the coin... Eg for that slabbed thing @Orpster saw... 1906 gold sovereign and look through a bunch of photos. Sometimes lighting or camera quality can make it tricky but looking at multiple photos from the reputable online dealers or on PCGS or NGC websites and essentially playing spot the difference some become very obvious. 

Then other details like is the monarch correct for the date or the mintmark and date combination. Some members have many stats commited to memory over time but simply looking at a mintage list or again searching the specific coin you are considering can help. 👍🏼

[Organics]

19 minutes ago, modofantasma said:

One thing you could do when considering a purchase is to image search for the coin... Eg for that slabbed thing @Orpster saw... 1906 gold sovereign and look through a bunch of photos. Sometimes lighting or camera quality can make it tricky but looking at multiple photos from the reputable online dealers or on PCGS or NGC websites and essentially playing spot the difference some become very obvious. 

Then other details like is the monarch correct for the date or the mintmark and date combination. Some members have many stats commited to memory over time but simply looking at a mintage list or again searching the specific coin you are considering can help. 👍🏼

Great suggestions. Thank you 🙏

[SilverJacks]

Here’s a coin I suspect is fake, so not sure it’s in the correct thread, just yet anyway. It’s with NGC so will find out in a while. 

Colour is off - although it could be from being cleaned etc, but I doubt it.

Raised rim looks suspicious - you often see fins around the rims of these coins, but this is extreme on both sides.

lettering doesn’t look right - particularly the top of “United” on reverse

Several suspicious depressions on reverse - one directly above “of” and below “trust”

Other than that , it’s either a high quality fake or I’m wrong and it’s genuine. Apologies if this is too early to add to your thread @Organics. It can always be removed I guess…

 

[dicker]

2 hours ago, Orpster said:

1855 Shield Sovereign

 

 

 

I have not seen many Shield counterfeits. Just one other and this is a better example. 

[Spyder]

I would have thought the biggest givaway was that no double sovereigns were minted in 1905. Edward double were only 1902

[dicker]

15 minutes ago, SilverJacks said:

Here’s a coin I suspect is fake, so not sure it’s in the correct thread, just yet anyway. It’s with NGC so will find out in a while. 

Colour is off - although it could be from being cleaned etc, but I doubt it.

Raised rim looks suspicious - you often see fins around the rims of these coins, but this is extreme on both sides.

lettering doesn’t look right - particularly the top of “United” on reverse

Several suspicious depressions on reverse - one directly above “of” and below “trust”

Other than that , it’s either a high quality fake or I’m wrong and it’s genuine. Apologies if this is too early to add to your thread @Organics. It can always be removed I guess…

 

Impossible for me to tell if these are or are not counterfeit.  Grading is the only way unless you are a specialist on this incuse pre33 series. 

[Spyder]

With slabbed coins, I would say, go on the grading company website and put the number in and see if the photo matches the coin that is being sold. A small mark on the original would catch the fake straight away if it is not such a obvious fake.

Edited February 11 by Spyder

[Orpster]

4 minutes ago, Spyder said:

With slabbed coins, I would say, go on the grading company website and put the number in and see if the photo matches the coin that is being sold. A small mark on the original would catch the fake straight away it is not such a obvious fake.

There are a lot of coins, particularly with PCGS, that have no images on the site so not always possible - an example will be the fake PCGS 1906 I posted above:

I would assume they target these 🤷‍♂️

[Organics]

29 minutes ago, SilverJacks said:

Here’s a coin I suspect is fake, so not sure it’s in the correct thread, just yet anyway. It’s with NGC so will find out in a while. 

Colour is off - although it could be from being cleaned etc, but I doubt it.

Raised rim looks suspicious - you often see fins around the rims of these coins, but this is extreme on both sides.

lettering doesn’t look right - particularly the top of “United” on reverse

Several suspicious depressions on reverse - one directly above “of” and below “trust”

Other than that , it’s either a high quality fake or I’m wrong and it’s genuine. Apologies if this is too early to add to your thread @Organics. It can always be removed I guess…

 

Thank so much for sharing. Even coins we have serious doubts on allow us all to compare to similar. Keep us posted on the outcome from NGC. Although I may have started this thread it's not mine. I'd like to call it a community thread and am happy for it to be changed to that. This is for all of us. The more knowledge we build as a community the better. 

[Belmont]

[Organics]

2 minutes ago, Belmont said:

This is another example of a coin which has no mint mark (i.e London) but was never minted in London. Thank you for sharing 🙏

[dicker]

11 minutes ago, Belmont said:

The numerals on this one!