1902 Quintuple Sovereign. Proof Or Not?

[Organics]

Hi All, 

Picked this up today and was wondering if it’s a proof or normal bullion. As I only have a handful of modern proofs I really can’t say either way. I paid bullion for it but would be good to know. 

Thanks in Advance 🙏

[refero]

what is certain its been improperly cleaned

[James32]

I don't think it's proof, I could be wrong as its been cleaned badly

[Zhorro]

Don't forget that 1902 was a matt proof.  This is a nice picture of one:

1902 Matt Proof Quintuple Sovereign (£5), Edward VII. Graded PCGS PR61. (easyliveauction.com)

 

[Organics]

7 minutes ago, Zhorro said:

Don't forget that 1902 was a matt proof.  This is a nice picture of one:

1902 Matt Proof Quintuple Sovereign (£5), Edward VII. Graded PCGS PR61. (easyliveauction.com)

 

Yes the background (I’m sure there’s a technical name for it) does look Matt 

[James32]

17 minutes ago, Zhorro said:

Don't forget that 1902 was a matt proof.  This is a nice picture of one:

1902 Matt Proof Quintuple Sovereign (£5), Edward VII. Graded PCGS PR61. (easyliveauction.com)

 

Ohh, very nice.

[sovereignsteve]

I don't think it's a proof but the cleaning could have changed the surface and colour. Also the photo could be doing the same.

It's certainly a very nice coin, you don't often see the currency coins in this condition. Shame about the cleaning abuse.

[Organics]

4 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

I don't think it's a proof but the cleaning could have changed the surface and colour. Also the photo could be doing the same.

It's certainly a very nice coin, you don't often see the currency coins in this condition. Shame about the cleaning abuse.

I’ll take some new photos tomorrow and post them as it’s not as dull as it looks 🙏

[Petra]

🤔no expert, but that is terrible 🤔😮however, as I don’t have one, right price it would be fine🤔😮

[Organics]

11 minutes ago, Petra said:

🤔no expert, but that is terrible 🤔😮however, as I don’t have one, right price it would be fine🤔😮

That’s quite funny. No expert but let me slate it anyway. Oh and in the meantime I’d buy it if the price was right 😂

[Petra]

1 minute ago, Organics said:

That’s quite funny. No expert but let me slate it anyway. Oh and in the meantime I’d buy it if the price was right 😂

Don’t think you need to be an expert to comment on this one … pretty obvious what’s up with it🤔I have collected and dealt in antiques for years …. when collecting stuff you are always after the perfect bits, however, if you are missing something, then an ok, but not perfect example at the right price will do until you find/can afford a better one.

[Organics]

11 minutes ago, Petra said:

Don’t think you need to be an expert to comment on this one … pretty obvious what’s up with it🤔I have collected and dealt in antiques for years …. when collecting stuff you are always after the perfect bits, however, if you are missing something, then an ok, but not perfect example at the right price will do until you find/can afford a better one.

Sure and agree. I have been in the antiques trade for 20 years. I personally would never call something “terrible” when I could potentially be interested in it and knowing how pictures sometimes can make things look worse than they are. I truly am no expert on sovereigns but now understand that this has been poorly cleaned. Still quite a sought after coin and off course condition will have to be reflected in the price 🙏🙏🙏

[Petra]

58 minutes ago, Organics said:

Sure and agree. I have been in the antiques trade for 20 years. I personally would never call something “terrible” when I could potentially be interested in it and knowing how pictures sometimes can make things look worse than they are. I truly am no expert on sovereigns but now understand that this has been poorly cleaned. Still quite a sought after coin and off course condition will have to be reflected in the price 🙏🙏🙏

👍👍

[TringSilver]

Could be the matte proof (they all were in this year I think?) 

Have a look on RWB auctions as they have some in current catalogue I believe.

[sovereignsteve]

6 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

I don't think it's a proof but the cleaning could have changed the surface and colour. Also the photo could be doing the same.

It's certainly a very nice coin, you don't often see the currency coins in this condition. Shame about the cleaning abuse.

As a rider to my previous post, I did miss the fact this is a £5 coin so that would explain the lack of any wear.

Anyway, I believe the £5 currency issue in top condition is rarer than the matte proof and is therefore worth more.

Edited February 8 by sovereignsteve
forgot to add something

[SidS]

Hard to tell. The hair and beard detailing is exquisite, I wouldn't be surprised to find it had been the proof version.

As others have said, shame about the cleaning, but I wouldn't call it terrible. It doesn't look anywhere near as bad as those polished coins and you still have lots of high grade detail undamaged by the clean.

I wouldn't turn away such a coin.

[Organics]

@sovereignsteve @Petra @James32 @Zhorro @refero @SidS New pictures as promised. I must take better pictures to start with 🤷‍♂️ If anyone could shed some light on a realistic price for this it would be much appreciated. I want to sell this and my 1893 to raise some funds for another purchase. 

1 minute ago, SidS said:

Hard to tell. The hair and beard detailing is exquisite, I wouldn't be surprised to find it had been the proof version.

As others have said, shame about the cleaning, but I wouldn't call it terrible. It doesn't look anywhere near as bad as those polished coins and you still have lots of high grade detail undamaged by the clean.

I wouldn't turn away such a coin.

Thank you 🙏 

[SidS]

Looks like a proof to me. The hair detail is so crisp.

Other people may have differing opinions.

A lot of the cleaning damage is on the fields, I wouldn't be surprised if this is from a cased set.

[Organics]

1 minute ago, SidS said:

Looks like a proof to me. The hair detail is so crisp.

Other people may have differing opinions.

A lot of the cleaning damage is on the fields, I wouldn't be surprised if this is from a cased set.

It will be interesting to get a consensus agreement, as I wouldn’t want any future buyer to be disappointed 🙏 

[Organics]

Just now, Organics said:

It will be interesting to get a consensus agreement, as I wouldn’t want any future buyer to be disappointed 🙏 

Thank you for your feedback. I’ll post the 1893 £5 I bought yesterday too

[sovereignsteve]

Looks like a proof in that light

[Organics]

8 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

Looks like a proof in that light

Thank you 🙏 

[refero]

1902 coronations are matte not proof

[SidS]

2 minutes ago, refero said:

1902 coronations are matte not proof

Matte are proofs, just a different type without the glossy fields.

Edited February 9 by SidS

[refero]

A coin with matte surfaces is one struck from dies which have been sandblasted or acid-etched, giving the entire coin a "frosted", non-shiny appearance.

i always considered matte finish something different and not a sub category of the proof family, maybe i ve always been wrong tho)