My Story: Buying on eBay and invoking the eBay-Guarantee for a high-value item ... or the question of who eats the $10k loss....

[Expat]

For the benefit of anybody ordering from eBay (in my case eBay US), I'd like to share my story and the resolution:

I order regularly on eBay, mostly 1oz Gold coins (preferably Eagles and Krugerrands). I started mainly because if use my credit card, it basically refunds me 5.75% of the first $2,500 every quarter, so that's how I gained my first experiences with buying on eBay. Over the last couple of years, I increased my buying on eBay successively and arrived at 100+ coins in deliveries ranging from $2k to $15k in value. Most were shipped USPS or FedEx with no problems ever, and since I purchased exclusively from the big sellers (Liberty, BullionExchange, DBS, etc.) all coins turned out to be real, at least that's what my Metalyzer Pro said. I grew confident that this way works for me.

Fast forward to May 2022, when I placed an order for 5 American Gold Eagles for just short of $10k through eBay with one of the previously mentioned large sellers. The seller was apparently changing around logistics, so the package did not leave their HQ in California, but was dispatched from a warehouse in Dallas TX and handed to FedEx. I followed the package to FedEx's Memphis sorting facility, when it suddenly went MIA for a day over the weekend. I didn't think much of that, and 24 hours later, the package re-arrived at the Memphis hub and was dispatched to my local sorting facility and out for delivery two days later.

When FedEx home delivered the package, it was "half-handed" to me by the driver, we both held on to a side each, while I was signing on his little gizmo, using the package as support. Once I had the package fully in had and turned it around, I saw that the other side of the package had been cut open at the filament sealing tape, and had been taped back shut with simple clear tape. I already knew what must have happened, so I took some photos and opened the package, which turned out empty. The FedEx truck was already gone by that time. Please note, I am not accusing anybody in particular, but either the seller's warehouse tampered with the package before shipping, or someone else did, while the package was in the carrier's possession. I am not judging which one is more likely, I am merely stating the two possibilities.

I called the seller who did not pick up the phone. So I immediately called eBay and opened a case with them. They were helpful and tried to calm me down, reiterating that I was protected by the eBay-Guarantee. The seller ultimately answered to my case in the eBay messaging system, requesting photos and eventually telling me to wait for one to two weeks until they get feedback from FedEx on an inquiry that they launched. I contacted eBay again and they told me I had to wait four days to give the seller time to find a resolution for me. I also asked if I should file a police report, and eBay support told me that this would not be necessary. I did not follow those instructions and reported the theft to our local Sheriff's office. Two detectives came out to collect the box and fingerprint it, and they also gave me a police report number and contact details. Of course, nothing happened from the sellers side, and I called eBay back after four (business) days. I was then told that they (eBay) would now escalate the case to their High Value Claims Group, a special group for these kind of cases. Their inquiry was going to take another four business days, they would have to investigate the buyer and seller for previous claims and the circumstances surrounding the claim.

I kept in touch with the High Value Claims Group every day, asking if they had found out anything, offering any help I could provide. One day before their deadline, a Supervisor in that group asked me if I had filed a police report. I told her that I did, even though the lower level eBay support told me previously that I did not have to. She said that the report was extremely helpful and took down the number and the contact details for the local Sheriff's Office and told me that she would call them and verify my claims. I waited for the four days to pass exactly, then I called eBay. Within half an hour, I had the woman from the High Value Claims Group calling me back, saying that she just hung up with the Sheriff's Office and she verified everything that had happened exactly as I had told her. They decided the case that very same day in my favor. I received a full refund from eBay to my credit card about 24 hours later. I never heard anything from the seller. My assumption is, that eBay "ate" the loss in the end, and I am probably blacklisted by the seller for future purchases (I haven't tried again since then).

What do we learn from this?

1) Inspect EVERY package on ALL sides BEFORE signing. Be religious about this. If it looks in any way suspicious, refuse to accept it, let it go back. Your risk BEGINS when you take possession of it (i.e. sign for it).

2) Take photos of high-value packages as they arrive, or even better a video of receiving and unpacking. eBay advised me to do so in the future.

3) The seller on eBay is not necessarily your friend. They may try and hang you out to dry over their investigation with the carrier. eBay is your advocate, they can make (and force) a decision in a case.

4) Immediately file a claim with eBay, not Paypal, not your Credit Card Company, not your bank. You can do so in a second step.

5) Right after, file a police report, no matter what eBay says. You are the victim of a crime, it's in your best interest.

6) Be proactive, be in eBay's face daily in a constructive way, offer any help you can provide, make sure they know you are the victim. Get to know the person that is handling your claim.

7) Try not to have a second loss (I am speculating here), they keep records of all this happening.

Final thought: The all-in-all 14 days it took to resolve this issue were no fun. While the end result is good, you may have a sleepless night on the way. I did not enjoy that. But eBay's Money-Back-Guarantee worked as promised and they did the right thing. Kudos and thanks for that to eBay. I luckily got my money back and have started to buy stuff on eBay again, although less valuable to begin with. My LCS is happy about that. But eBay knows that this buyer's trust is at the core of their business model, so I think that's why they in the end decided for the innocent buyer. Lastly, I still feel strange about someone "taking/stealing my stuff" somewhere, and it bugs me that some lowlife thief somewhere is running around with 5 Eagles of mine, probably feeling as cool as Clooney in Ocean's 11. I hate the feeling of being victimized. I am now completely OCD about getting packages directly from my mailman, and about checking anything from any carrier for signs of tampering.

I hope none of you ever has to go through this, but if you do, maybe my experience can help.

Martin

 

 

 

Edited July 10, 2022 by Expat

[Stu]

Glad you got it sorted in the end.  I am never sure why so many folk appear to buy bullion state side via eBay. Surely you would be better buying mail order from the same bullion dealers?. EBay is just an extra layer of hastle who like to take their %? 

[Expat]

Stu,

It's somewhat strange: The same bullion dealers that sell to you directly, will also sell on eBay. However, factoring in a 2.5% cash back credit (easy to get through their card over here), it is most of the time cheaper to go through eBay. Furthermore, given my experience, a direct deal with a bullion dealer would not have resulted in the same outcome. Bullion dealers very clearly state in their fine print, that once you sign for it, the risk is your - without exception. So while it does sound strange, in my case eBay is touch cheaper and offers the added layer of protection through their Money Back Guarantee. Don't get me wrong, I have no idea how that makes sense on the side of the dealers, but it somehow has to. I am normally a supporter of "cutting out the middle man", but in this case, I am at a loss as to why it works better this way...

Martin

[LawrenceChard]

4 hours ago, Expat said:

For the benefit of anybody ordering from eBay (in my case eBay US), I'd like to share my story and the resolution:

I order regularly on eBay, mostly 1oz Gold coins (preferably Eagles and Krugerrands). I started mainly because if use my credit card, it basically refunds me 5.75% of the first $2,500 every quarter, so that's how I gained my first experiences with buying on eBay. Over the last couple of years, I increased my buying on eBay successively and arrived at 100+ coins in deliveries ranging from $2k to $15k in value. Most were shipped USPS or FedEx with no problems ever, and since I purchased exclusively from the big sellers (Liberty, BullionExchange, DBS, etc.) all coins turned out to be real, at least that's what my Metalyzer Pro said. I grew confident that this way works for me.

Fast forward to May 2022, when I placed an order for 5 American Gold Eagles for just short of $10k through eBay with one of the previously mentioned large sellers. The seller was apparently changing around logistics, so the package did not leave their HQ in California, but was dispatched from a warehouse in Dallas TX and handed to FedEx. I followed the package to FedEx's Memphis sorting facility, when it suddenly went MIA for a day over the weekend. I didn't think much of that, and 24 hours later, the package re-arrived at the Memphis hub and was dispatched to my local sorting facility and out for delivery two days later.

When FedEx home delivered the package, it was "half-handed" to me by the driver, we both held on to a side each, while I was signing on his little gizmo, using the package as support. Once I had the package fully in had and turned it around, I saw that the other side of the package had been cut open at the filament sealing tape, and had been taped back shut with simple clear tape. I already knew what must have happened, so I took some photos and opened the package, which turned out empty. The FedEx truck was already gone by that time. Please note, I am not accusing anybody in particular, but either the seller's warehouse tampered with the package before shipping, or someone else did, while the package was in the carrier's possession. I am not judging which one is more likely, I am merely stating the two possibilities.

I called the seller who did not pick up the phone. So I immediately called eBay and opened a case with them. They were helpful and tried to calm me down, reiterating that I was protected by the eBay-Guarantee. The seller ultimately answered to my case in the eBay messaging system, requesting photos and eventually telling me to wait for one to two weeks until they get feedback from FedEx on an inquiry that they launched. I contacted eBay again and they told me I had to wait four days to give the seller time to find a resolution for me. I also asked if I should file a police report, and eBay support told me that this would not be necessary. I did not follow those instructions and reported the theft to our local Sheriff's office. Two detectives came out to collect the box and fingerprint it, and they also gave me a police report number and contact details. Of course, nothing happened from the sellers side, and I called eBay back after four (business) days. I was then told that they (eBay) would now escalate the case to their High Value Claims Group, a special group for these kind of cases. Their inquiry was going to take another four business days, they would have to investigate the buyer and seller for previous claims and the circumstances surrounding the claim.

I kept in touch with the High Value Claims Group every day, asking if they had found out anything, offering any help I could provide. One day before their deadline, a Supervisor in that group asked me if I had filed a police report. I told her that I did, even though the lower level eBay support told me previously that I did not have to. She said that the report was extremely helpful and took down the number and the contact details for the local Sheriff's Office and told me that she would call them and verify my claims. I waited for the four days to pass exactly, then I called eBay. Within half an hour, I had the woman from the High Value Claims Group calling me back, saying that she just hung up with the Sheriff's Office and she verified everything that had happened exactly as I had told her. They decided the case that very same day in my favor. I received a full refund from eBay to my credit card about 24 hours later. I never heard anything from the seller. My assumption is, that eBay "ate" the loss in the end, and I am probably blacklisted by the seller for future purchases (I haven't tried again since then).

What do we learn from this?

1) Inspect EVERY package on ALL sides BEFORE signing. Be religious about this. If it looks in any way suspicious, refuse to accept it, let it go back. Your risk BEGINS when you take possession of it (i.e. sign for it).

2) Take photos of high-value packages as they arrive, or even better a video of receiving and unpacking. eBay advised me to do so in the future.

3) The seller on eBay is not necessarily your friend. They may try and hang you out to dry over their investigation with the carrier. eBay is your advocate, they can make (and force) a decision in a case.

4) Immediately file a claim with eBay, not Paypal, not your Credit Card Company, not your bank. You can do so in a second step.

5) Right after, file a police report, no matter what eBay says. You are the victim of a crime, it's in your best interest.

6) Be proactive, be in eBay's face daily in a constructive way, offer any help you can provide, make sure they know you are the victim. Get to know the person that is handling your claim.

7) Try not to have a second loss (I am speculating here), they keep records of all this happening.

Final thought: The all-in-all 14 days it took to resolve this issue were no fun. While the end result is good, you may have a sleepless night on the way. I did not enjoy that. But eBay's Money-Back-Guarantee worked as promised and they did the right thing. Kudos and thanks for that to eBay. I luckily got my money back and have started to buy stuff on eBay again, although less valuable to begin with. My LCS is happy about that. But eBay knows that this buyer's trust is at the core of their business model, so I think that's why they in the end decided for the innocent buyer. Lastly, I still feel strange about someone "taking/stealing my stuff" somewhere, and it bugs me that some lowlife thief somewhere is running around with 5 Eagles of mine, probably feeling as cool as Clooney in Ocean's 11. I hate the feeling of being victimized. I am now completely OCD about getting packages directly from my mailman, and about checking anything from any carrier for signs of tampering.

I hope none of you ever has to go through this, but if you do, maybe my experience can help.

Martin

😎

 

1 hour ago, Stu said:

Glad you got it sorted in the end.  I am never sure why so many folk appear to buy bullion state side via eBay. Surely you would be better buying mail order from the same bullion dealers?. EBay is just an extra layer of hastle who like to take their %? 

 

1 hour ago, Expat said:

Stu,

It's somewhat strange: The same bullion dealers that sell to you directly, will also sell on eBay. However, factoring in a 2.5% cash back credit (easy to get through their card over here), it is most of the time cheaper to go through eBay. Furthermore, given my experience, a direct deal with a bullion dealer would not have resulted in the same outcome. Bullion dealers very clearly state in their fine print, that once you sign for it, the risk is your - without exception. So while it does sound strange, in my case eBay is touch cheaper and offers the added layer of protection through their Money Back Guarantee. Don't get me wrong, I have no idea how that makes sense on the side of the dealers, but it somehow has to. I am normally a supporter of "cutting out the middle man", but in this case, I am at a loss as to why it works better this way...

Martin

A few things are not clear, or don't add up here:

First, "Money for Nothing" does not exist except in a great song by British band Dire Straits, so when your bank or creidt card company gives you 5.75 back on your first $2500 = $143.75; do you really believe they are giving you this for nothing? Who is actually paying for it? You or the Merchants accepting the cards? If the Merchants, then it is sure they are charging you extra for the privilege. Have you ever tried to work out where the "free money" is coming from?

Later, you mention getting 2.5% cash back. Is this after the 5.75%? Who gives you the "cash back"? ebay, your bank, credit card company? you have not made this point clear.

Next, do you know what percentage premium you have been paying for your (one ounce gold) coins? Some of the best and most competitive bullion dealers state this clearly on thier offers. The less competitive one don't tell you, for some strange reason, which you should try to work out.

You state you purchased exclusively from the big sellers (Liberty, BullionExchange, DBS, etc.), but these are not names which would spring to my mind as major, competitive US bullilon dealers, although I am more familiar with the UK market. I did start a Google search for the 3 you mentioned, but there appeared to be a number of dealers with similar names, so I am not sure precisely which of these you use.

dbscoins.com did not state its % premiums on its one ounce gold eagles, and I could not be bothered to work it out.

libertygoldandsilver.com did not state its % premiums on its one ounce gold eagles, and I could not be bothered to work it out.

libertycoin.com did not state its % premiums on its one ounce gold eagles, and I could not be bothered to work it out.

goldbullionexchange.com did not state its % premiums on its one ounce gold eagles, and I could not be bothered to work it out.

bullionexchanges.com did not state its % premiums on its one ounce gold eagles, and I could not be bothered to work it out.

Any bullion dealer selling on ebay will have to pay ebay fees, they will also have to pay credit card charges (if you pay by credit card).

Most major bullion dealers in the UK make about 1% to 2% profit margin on their major best selling products. This does not allow room to pay out much in the way of fees, without loading it on to the price they charge their customers. To the best of my knowledge, from major bullion dealers, major gold bullion products trade at lower, more competitive premiums in the USA than they do in the UK, although not by much. This is almost certainly because it is a bigger market, by a factor of about 10. I am also aware that there are lots of small dealers in the USA who I would not trust above Vladimir Putin.

I strongly suspect you have been paying too much.

As you quite correctly state, you should examine all package before signing for them. You were lucky.

I am happy that ebay did refund you, presumably because you managed to get all the next steps right, and because you hounded them whenever they failed to get back to you in time. I think this is because you removed all the excuses which often let them off the hook.

You were right to ignore the first ebay person who told you not to contact the police, otherwise you may have got a different result. 

You did not name the dealer / ebay seller who was involved in this case, which is disappointing, although very common. Did you leave negative feedback statiing clearly what happened? If not, why not?

You indicated suspicious behaviour by your Fedex delivery driver. did you ever follow that up with Fedex, or the local police? If not, why not?

A number of other question occur to me, but that's probably enough for now.

Thanks on behalf of investors and stackers for the warning you have provided, and for the list of procedures you advised.

 

 

 

[Expat]

Lawrence,

I appreciate the questions, and will gladly provide more detail:

 

so when your bank or creidt card company gives you 5.75 back on your first $2500 = $143.75; do you really believe they are giving you this for nothing?

No. And I know where it comes from. It comes out of their marketing budget. The credit card is from Bank of America, and if you are one of the "Diamond Tier" members with Merrill Lynch (owned by BofA), they will give you a 75% bonus cash back on their standard 3% cash back for the first $2,500 every quarter. It's a way for them to generate more client revenue and bind the client closer to the overall banking relationship.

 

Later, you mention getting 2.5% cash back. Is this after the 5.75%? Who gives you the "cash back"? ebay, your bank, credit card company? you have not made this point clear.

This is for everything else, and has nothing to do with BofA and their "Diamond Tier" requirement - this one is available to anybody in the US without a cap. My standard credit card is a Wells Fargo Cash rewards card with unlimited 2% cash back plus 0.5% unlimited from Capital One Shopping on eBay. Yes, they work together. Here I am pretty sure that it comes out of the 2.75% fee that they charge the vendor.

 

Next, do you know what percentage premium you have been paying

Yes. About 2% over spot on my quarterly purchases and around 5% over spot on the others (for American Eagles).

I'll illustrate with a simple example: Spot is currently $1,745.

BGASC is currently the cheapest direct seller in the US at $1,845. That's 5.7% over spot, while Liberty Coin currently sells them for $1,884 on eBay. That's 8% premium over spot.

If I use eBay and pay for the coin with my BofA card and the Cap One App (for a total cash back of 5.75%) I end up paying $1,776. That's 1.8% over spot.

Anybody on eBay can use a 2% WF card and the Cap One App (for a total cash back of 2.50%) and end up paying just short of $1,840. That's 5.3% over spot.

Please share your view here. Is that too much? Where else should I look?

 

Did you leave negative feedback statiing clearly what happened? If not, why not?

Once eBay steps in and voids the entire transaction, you cannot leave feedback anymore. The purchase becomes nonexistent in your purchasing history. At least this one did.

And I am hesitant to mark the seller, as I am pretty sure that they had nothing to do with this. I had purchased from them 14 times in the past with no problems.

 

You indicated suspicious behaviour by your Fedex delivery driver. did you ever follow that up with Fedex, or the local police? If not, why not?

The local policed closed the file the minute I got reimbursed by eBay, because I don't have a loss anymore. They keep the record though and "collect more cases", as they put it.

Regarding FedEx, I did not have any contractual relationship with the carrier or any say regarding the selection of services. The carrier (FedEx) was selected and paid for by the seller. The contract is between them, I just have a claim against the seller. Both, the seller and eBay advised me that it would be the senders obligation to engage (and eventually sue) the carrier if an item gets lost. As the recipient, you can ask (!) them for information, but as soon as things get hairy, they become absolutely tight lipped. It's all between them and their customer (the seller) and the seller's insurance policy at that point.

 

A number of other question occur to me, but that's probably enough for now.

I am more than happy to answer whatever comes to your mind.

 

Martin

Edited July 11, 2022 by Expat

[flyingveepixie]

Another day, another ebay story, although this time with a positive result for the buyer.  I've purchased bullion on ebay in the past but only silver and would no longer take the risk as I don't trust it or sellers who use it an inch, mainly for the reasons of

1.  there being too many crooks and scammers who use it nowadays - at least on the UK site, maybe it's different and a bit more honest in the US..?  but the few (or many?) bad apples on ebay UK have tarred everyone with the same brush and in my own experience at least (almost 20 years of buying and selling on ebay) it's no longer worth the risk or the hassle.

2. Ebay customer service is at best poor in the UK and when you get to speak to them on the phone it's like talking to an automaton who tends to not listen to your concerns and use any kind of creativity to fix the problem but who can only read lines from a set of terms and conditions which are always loaded in ebay's favour - undoubtedly not their fault as individuals but that's the way it is with ebay UK.

As to signing for an item. I've hardly had to sign for a tracked item since March 2020 when physical signing went out the window. Small signed for and special delivery items are now simply pushed through my letterbox and large items are dumped on my doorstep with the delivery driver taking a pic of it for his own benefit before he rings the bell and dashes off at high speed.  I can only imagine the bad vibes which would be aimed in my direction from delivery drivers if I stopped every one of them and insisted I inspect the package at length before accepting it, and to be fair I couldn't really blame them as they have so many deliveries to get through in a day that if they stopped at every customers door to go through a rigmarole they'd be lucky to get finished before midnight.

In general pretty much the only item I ever actually have to physically sign for these days is if I happen to buy a bottle of whisky on Amazon or at the whisky auction, and that's only because Nanny insists that I have to be over 18 (or is it 21?) to accept an alcohol delivery.  Everything else just gets dumped on the doorstep.

Maybe it's different in the US but here in the UK the usual excuse of "due to Covid"  has given so many companies  - and usually the biggest ones - the opportunity to throw decent customer service out of the window, probably along with half their employees...🤔

Edited July 11, 2022 by flyingveepixie

[StackerBritt]

13 hours ago, Expat said:

For the benefit of anybody ordering from eBay (in my case eBay US), I'd like to share my story and the resolution:

I order regularly on eBay, mostly 1oz Gold coins (preferably Eagles and Krugerrands). I started mainly because if use my credit card, it basically refunds me 5.75% of the first $2,500 every quarter, so that's how I gained my first experiences with buying on eBay. Over the last couple of years, I increased my buying on eBay successively and arrived at 100+ coins in deliveries ranging from $2k to $15k in value. Most were shipped USPS or FedEx with no problems ever, and since I purchased exclusively from the big sellers (Liberty, BullionExchange, DBS, etc.) all coins turned out to be real, at least that's what my Metalyzer Pro said. I grew confident that this way works for me.

Fast forward to May 2022, when I placed an order for 5 American Gold Eagles for just short of $10k through eBay with one of the previously mentioned large sellers. The seller was apparently changing around logistics, so the package did not leave their HQ in California, but was dispatched from a warehouse in Dallas TX and handed to FedEx. I followed the package to FedEx's Memphis sorting facility, when it suddenly went MIA for a day over the weekend. I didn't think much of that, and 24 hours later, the package re-arrived at the Memphis hub and was dispatched to my local sorting facility and out for delivery two days later.

When FedEx home delivered the package, it was "half-handed" to me by the driver, we both held on to a side each, while I was signing on his little gizmo, using the package as support. Once I had the package fully in had and turned it around, I saw that the other side of the package had been cut open at the filament sealing tape, and had been taped back shut with simple clear tape. I already knew what must have happened, so I took some photos and opened the package, which turned out empty. The FedEx truck was already gone by that time. Please note, I am not accusing anybody in particular, but either the seller's warehouse tampered with the package before shipping, or someone else did, while the package was in the carrier's possession. I am not judging which one is more likely, I am merely stating the two possibilities.

I called the seller who did not pick up the phone. So I immediately called eBay and opened a case with them. They were helpful and tried to calm me down, reiterating that I was protected by the eBay-Guarantee. The seller ultimately answered to my case in the eBay messaging system, requesting photos and eventually telling me to wait for one to two weeks until they get feedback from FedEx on an inquiry that they launched. I contacted eBay again and they told me I had to wait four days to give the seller time to find a resolution for me. I also asked if I should file a police report, and eBay support told me that this would not be necessary. I did not follow those instructions and reported the theft to our local Sheriff's office. Two detectives came out to collect the box and fingerprint it, and they also gave me a police report number and contact details. Of course, nothing happened from the sellers side, and I called eBay back after four (business) days. I was then told that they (eBay) would now escalate the case to their High Value Claims Group, a special group for these kind of cases. Their inquiry was going to take another four business days, they would have to investigate the buyer and seller for previous claims and the circumstances surrounding the claim.

I kept in touch with the High Value Claims Group every day, asking if they had found out anything, offering any help I could provide. One day before their deadline, a Supervisor in that group asked me if I had filed a police report. I told her that I did, even though the lower level eBay support told me previously that I did not have to. She said that the report was extremely helpful and took down the number and the contact details for the local Sheriff's Office and told me that she would call them and verify my claims. I waited for the four days to pass exactly, then I called eBay. Within half an hour, I had the woman from the High Value Claims Group calling me back, saying that she just hung up with the Sheriff's Office and she verified everything that had happened exactly as I had told her. They decided the case that very same day in my favor. I received a full refund from eBay to my credit card about 24 hours later. I never heard anything from the seller. My assumption is, that eBay "ate" the loss in the end, and I am probably blacklisted by the seller for future purchases (I haven't tried again since then).

What do we learn from this?

1) Inspect EVERY package on ALL sides BEFORE signing. Be religious about this. If it looks in any way suspicious, refuse to accept it, let it go back. Your risk BEGINS when you take possession of it (i.e. sign for it).

2) Take photos of high-value packages as they arrive, or even better a video of receiving and unpacking. eBay advised me to do so in the future.

3) The seller on eBay is not necessarily your friend. They may try and hang you out to dry over their investigation with the carrier. eBay is your advocate, they can make (and force) a decision in a case.

4) Immediately file a claim with eBay, not Paypal, not your Credit Card Company, not your bank. You can do so in a second step.

5) Right after, file a police report, no matter what eBay says. You are the victim of a crime, it's in your best interest.

6) Be proactive, be in eBay's face daily in a constructive way, offer any help you can provide, make sure they know you are the victim. Get to know the person that is handling your claim.

7) Try not to have a second loss (I am speculating here), they keep records of all this happening.

Final thought: The all-in-all 14 days it took to resolve this issue were no fun. While the end result is good, you may have a sleepless night on the way. I did not enjoy that. But eBay's Money-Back-Guarantee worked as promised and they did the right thing. Kudos and thanks for that to eBay. I luckily got my money back and have started to buy stuff on eBay again, although less valuable to begin with. My LCS is happy about that. But eBay knows that this buyer's trust is at the core of their business model, so I think that's why they in the end decided for the innocent buyer. Lastly, I still feel strange about someone "taking/stealing my stuff" somewhere, and it bugs me that some lowlife thief somewhere is running around with 5 Eagles of mine, probably feeling as cool as Clooney in Ocean's 11. I hate the feeling of being victimized. I am now completely OCD about getting packages directly from my mailman, and about checking anything from any carrier for signs of tampering.

I hope none of you ever has to go through this, but if you do, maybe my experience can help.

Martin

 

 

 

Thank you for the detailed and informative narrative of your unfortunate experience.  

I have often wondered how the EBay money back guarantee worked and it is good to see a real life example of it in action albeit sorry it was at your expense.  

Should this ever happen to me then I will ensure I use this as a step by step guide, although I doubt that my purchases would register in the ‘High Value’ category.  I wonder if that makes money back more or less likely?  They won’t have their A Team looking at it but it may just mean that it gets resolved quicker.

thanks again

[goldhunter]

Spare a thought for the seller.

I suspect they will not be able to recover their loss from insurance or the carrier.

By not inspecting the package and signing for it you let the delivery person and carrier off the hook.

Ebay always sides with the buyer, I know from experience as a past seller on ebay.

I was scammed out of £800 by a buyer who had left me positive feedback for the item I sold to them and then decided to make a claim with ebay claiming the contents where missing from the package.

Of course ebay decided in the buyers favour.

Scamming on ebay is the easiest risk free fraud one can commit.

 

[flyingveepixie]

18 minutes ago, goldhunter said:

Ebay always sides with the buyer,

Hmm,  not necessarily..  This guy lost out because of a number of different blunders, none of which were really his fault...

18 minutes ago, goldhunter said:

Scamming on ebay is the easiest risk free fraud one can commit.

Agreed on that.

 

Edited July 11, 2022 by flyingveepixie

[Piperscoins]

I had a bad experence years ago with Ebay.  They were running a 20% off all items at the time.  All the members of the forum which then amounted to about 20 ordered gold from Ebay.  I ordered a Sovereign from Bullion BY Post who at the time in the Ebay advert stated that the item would be sent out by Royal Mail special delivery.  The package was sent out signed for and went to a different address in my town.  It was Royal Mail who sorted it out.   Royal Mail who told me the coin had been sent back to Bullion By Post and they had received the coin, at no time did Bullion By Post inform me.   I also obtained a full refund from Ebay only because i had escalated it.  

I remember the whole incident being a right mess at the time.

I have never or will never shop at Bullion BY Post ever again.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Piperscoins

[LawrenceChard]

5 hours ago, goldhunter said:

Spare a thought for the seller.

I suspect they will not be able to recover their loss from insurance or the carrier.

By not inspecting the package and signing for it you let the delivery person and carrier off the hook.

Ebay always sides with the buyer, I know from experience as a past seller on ebay.

I was scammed out of £800 by a buyer who had left me positive feedback for the item I sold to them and then decided to make a claim with ebay claiming the contents where missing from the package.

Of course ebay decided in the buyers favour.

Scamming on ebay is the easiest risk free fraud one can commit.

 

"I called the seller who did not pick up the phone."

"The seller ultimately answered to my case in the eBay messaging system, requesting photos and eventually telling me to wait for one to two weeks until they get feedback from FedEx on an inquiry that they launched."

"I never heard anything from the seller. "

"The seller on eBay is not necessarily your friend. They may try and hang you out to dry over their investigation with the carrier. eBay is your advocate, they can make (and force) a decision in a case."

This specific seller seems to have fallen short once there was a problem!

It is normal for the shipping to be "fully insured", so the seller would almost certainly have been paid in full. 

IMO Ebay always sides with Ebay.

Otherwise, I agree with you.

😎

[Expat]

Gentlemen,

a couple of thoughts regarding your comments:

- Yes, the "It's COVID" excuse is as bad over here as it is in Europe. Any degree of incompetence, bad planning, or service reduction is excused with this. It's getting ridiculous.

- This has also posed the problem for the postal service packages, as the mailman signs for everything himself. Fortunately, I treat our mailman right twice a year (Christmas and his B-Day), so he makes the extra effort to ring the doorbell and shows me the package before signing for it. When he is on vacation, I don't order anything that gets delivered US Postal. No joke.

- It may be that eBay is the easiest place to commit a risk-free fraud or scam. I'd like to stress that I am not the scammer here. I am sure there are people out there who would commit a crime for 10k, but I'm not one of them. I consider it a marketplace, sometimes challenging, and I try to get what I paid for. That's it.

- I feel for the seller to the extend that they have to deal with the administrative hassle. But they state that every package is fully insured. So either they lie about that and "take the occasional loss" against the savings on insurance, or they are insured and will get reimbursed by their insurance with the help of my pictures and the police report. This has to be a regular occurrence to them, given that they probably ship 500+ packages a day across all sales platforms. 

- I agree with Lawrence that the seller did fall short of my "you are covered" expectation. Their answers in the message system sounded like pre-written, standard answers. It's probably not their first rodeo. I certainly would have wished for more and better communication with them. But I heard pretty much nothing from them.

- Yes, ebay will eventually side with ebay. I like that statement. But there is a risk in that assumption: Does eBay have more to lose by alienating a power seller with 100,000+ transactions per year, or by losing a retail customer who generates maybe $50k worth of revenue.

- Last, I agree that the sellers position weakens the moment I sign for the package. But given the eBay marketplace, even if the package were untampered with, you need to be able to verify the content for accuracy. For that, I need to receive and open the package. And the eBay Money Back guarantee allows for that. So the seller (and their insurance carrier) must be aware of this step.

Cheers

Chris

Edited July 11, 2022 by Expat

[Abyss]

Glad resolved with a full refund I sure this has caused some sleepless nights. Some very good bullet points unfortunately in the UK delivery firms are still signing on behalf recipients before posting the items through the letter box or ringing the bell leaving the parcel on you door. I have a ring door bell with subscription service and whenever I take a package I fully inspect in front of the camera and if the package tampered in any way I will say so to the door camera before taking the package into my home and unboxed on camera. Once the courier signs on your behalf and hands over the package bye bye as quick as a coyote.

6 hours ago, goldhunter said:

Spare a thought for the seller.

I suspect they will not be able to recover their loss from insurance or the carrier.

By not inspecting the package and signing for it you let the delivery person and carrier off the hook.

Ebay always sides with the buyer, I know from experience as a past seller on ebay.

I was scammed out of £800 by a buyer who had left me positive feedback for the item I sold to them and then decided to make a claim with ebay claiming the contents where missing from the package.

Of course ebay decided in the buyers favour.

Scamming on ebay is the easiest risk free fraud one can commit.

 

@goldhunter Your post is the reason why I video record both the boxing and unboxing process on camera with running commentary when I am buying and selling coins on eBay / Facebook or the TSF. You have video evidence of what you have physically received or packed and can then be used as evidence to prove your case.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Abyss