Benefits of collecting whole sets?

[monkstax]

Hi Guys,

 

Was wondering what you can tell me in regards to collecting whole sets e.g. lunar series, queens beasts,

Would I be able to sell a whole set for a premium over the individual parts? 

Is it risky if later coins in a series aren't popular?

Asking as more of an investor than collector,

 

I appreciate any advice you can give,

Thanks

[kimchi]

It depends very much on the set, but generally I would say that you'll get the best prices by splitting up sets unfortunately rather than selling as a whole. E.G. the number of people willing to pay top price for one coin will be much larger than the number of people willing to buy a whole set they don't need most of just for one or two coins.

The QBs on the whole did very well indeed but I personally do not expect the same from the Tudor Beasts and am not touching them.

Maybe the Monarchs could buck the trend (?) but not inclined to find out!

[harrygill111]

With anything it depends what you are collecting, when you sell if you decide to sell etc. 

If you're collecting a silver set over the long term its possible they'll just milk and be worth spot. Or like with the Queens beasts you'll get a pretty premium on early coins before the set concludes, and the mint milk it!

The RM lunar series was a mess in my opinion. Pandas, Kooks, Koalas etc were really collectable, but now i think they're run of the mill, High mintage bullion. You might get a premium for a date run or proof set. 

This contrasts with collecting RM historic to modern sovereigns and crowns etc. which has been a real joy but more of a long term, premium collection rather than low premium stack of metal. I think it's a brilliant investment while others look at the premium over spot and tend to avoid for investment - that's never made sense to me personally! 

Either way, I think collecting sets is a sensible way to manifest the metal buying addiction. Or as a hardcore metal investor just buy a monster box, or high quanitity of the same coin for good prices in my opinion, or digital metals. 

Edited April 7, 2022 by harrygill111

[monkstax]

14 minutes ago, kimchi said:

It depends very much on the set, but generally I would say that you'll get the best prices by splitting up sets unfortunately rather than selling as a whole. E.G. the number of people willing to pay top price for one coin will be much larger than the number of people willing to buy a whole set they don't need most of just for one or two coins.

The QBs on the whole did very well indeed but I personally do not expect the same from the Tudor Beasts and am not touching them.

Maybe the Monarchs could buck the trend (?) but not inclined to find out!

Ah Thanks, 

If only there was a way to tell from the outset which sets will do well, Can mintage numbers indicate that?

[monkstax]

14 minutes ago, harrygill111 said:

With anything it depends what you are collecting, when you sell if you decide to sell etc. 

If you're collecting a silver set over the long term its possible they'll just milk and be worth spot. Or like with the Queens beasts you'll get a pretty premium on early coins before the set concludes, and the mint milk it!

The RM lunar series was a mess in my opinion. Pandas, Kooks, Koalas etc were really collectable, but now i think they're run of the mill, High mintage bullion. You might get a premium for a date run or proof set. 

This contrasts with collecting RM historic to modern sovereigns and crowns which has been a real joy but more of a long term, premium collection rather than low premium stack of metal. I think it's a brilliant investment while others look at the premium over spot and tend to avoid for investment - that's never made sense to me personally! 

Either way, I think collecting sets is a sensible way to manifest the metal buying addiction. Or as a hardcore metal investor just buy a monster box, or high quanitity of the same coin for good prices in my opinion, or digital metals. 

Not familiar with the RM Modern sovereigns and crowns can you expound a bit on the strategy you mention?

Thanks!

[Stuntman]

I agree with the advice already given.  Collect the set if you seek pleasure of ownership, but be prepared to sell them as individual items rather than the set as a whole, if you want to maximise your return on investment.  Otherwise, just buy individual items that you think will be popular.

The sensible/pragmatic approach in my opinion would be to buy more of the early coins in a series as an each-way bet on the series becoming popular later on.  This, with hindsight, was the best approach to take on the Queen's Beasts coins - the Lion, Griffin and Dragon and to a lesser extent the Unicorn are holding up best.  They were the first four coins.

So in my opinion it would be worth buying several Tudor Beast Lions if you want to go down this route.  There are 3 advantages (it's the first coin, it's a Lion, and it will hold 'England' appeal) and no downsides compared to buying a different bullion coin (the 1 oz gold bullion price is extremely similar to other bullion coins).

If I was 'investing' in Tudor Beasts I'd also go big on the Dragon.

[Stuntman]

(Note that my comments above related to the release order of the Gold and Silver bullion coins, rather than the proofs).

[monkstax]

1 minute ago, Stuntman said:

I agree with the advice already given.  Collect the set if you seek pleasure of ownership, but be prepared to sell them as individual items rather than the set as a whole, if you want to maximise your return on investment.  Otherwise, just buy individual items that you think will be popular.

The sensible/pragmatic approach in my opinion would be to buy more of the early coins in a series as an each-way bet on the series becoming popular later on.  This, with hindsight, was the best approach to take on the Queen's Beasts coins - the Lion, Griffin and Dragon and to a lesser extent the Unicorn are holding up best.  They were the first four coins.

So in my opinion it would be worth buying several Tudor Beast Lions if you want to go down this route.  There are 3 advantages (it's the first coin, it's a Lion, and it will hold 'England' appeal) and no downsides compared to buying a different bullion coin (the 1 oz gold bullion price is extremely similar to other bullion coins).

If I was 'investing' in Tudor Beasts I'd also go big on the Dragon.

Interesting take, is it equally true with both gold and silver bullion? or do collectors prefer gold or vice versa?

[monkstax]

1 minute ago, Stuntman said:

(Note that my comments above related to the release order of the Gold and Silver bullion coins, rather than the proofs).

ah didn't see this comment,

Do proofs not do as well?

[Stuntman]

I prefer gold to silver, but the same amount of money buys a lot more silver...

As a non-facetious answer, "it depends".  I love some of the 10 oz silver coins and bars, because they are visually very spectacular.  The 1 and 2 oz silver coins are also spectacular, but I haven't been collecting the as a series unless you count the Oriental Border Britannias of 2018-2020. 

There are no bad decisions here, except for the damage to your bank balance in the short term!

[Stuntman]

Others will be in a better position to give advice regarding the proofs.  I don't collect them, and I would say that your resale market is much more limited.  Plus they are a lot more expensive to buy in the first place.

That said, anyone who bought and then sold some of the recent gold and silver proofs in the Great Engravers series is likely to have done very well indeed.  The challenge is getting hold of them on release...

[harrygill111]

Quote

Not familiar with the RM Modern sovereigns and crowns can you expound a bit on the strategy you mention?

Some good collections are special year design sovereigns for example 1989, 2012, 2017. You could go down the route grading these. Collecting earlier modern sovereigns is enjoyable - for example first year/any year for each monarch as examples. 

Crowns are now £5 coins which I tend to steer clear of, but earlier crowns are very collectable, fun, easy to buy in bulk and flip. Also no VAT on them. 

Queens Beasts were fantastic, I think the Tudor Beats will do well too, but VAT on bullion silver kills that collection for me. I think gold will do well for early coins. I think alot of UK ailver collectors will switch into fractional gold, so might be worth looking at.

Hope that helps. 

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by harrygill111

[monkstax]

1 minute ago, Stuntman said:

Others will be in a better position to give advice regarding the proofs.  I don't collect them, and I would say that your resale market is much more limited.  Plus they are a lot more expensive to buy in the first place.

That said, anyone who bought and then sold some of the recent gold and silver proofs in the Great Engravers series is likely to have done very well indeed.  The challenge is getting hold of them on release...

Thanks for your advice, I've found it very informative

[monkstax]

2 minutes ago, harrygill111 said:

Some good collections are special year design sovereigns for example 1989, 2012, 2017. You could go down the route grading these. Collecting earlier modern sovereigns is enjoyable - for example first year/any year for each monarch as examples. 

Crowns are now £5 coins which I tend to steer clear of, but earlier crowns are very collectable, fun, easy to buy in bulk and flip. Also no VAT on them. 

Queens Beasts were fantastic, I think the Tudor Beats will do well too, but VAT on bullion silver kills that collection for me. I think gold will do well for early coins. I think alot of UK ailver collectors will switch into fractional gold, so might be worth looking at.

Hope that helps. 

 

Thanks for the explanation, It definitely helps

[dicker]

The above comments are spot on. My thoughts are....

• Quite a lot of people enjoy collecting sets i.e. going backwards and collecting coins issued in the past as well as buying coins as they are issued.  The QB's series is a good example.  
• The joy is often getting assembling a set with hard to obtain older issues
• Large sets are (clearly) more expensive than buying individual coins, and a lot of people don't have the money to buy(for example) a complete set of 1oz gold QB's in one hit
• There are exceptions to the rule where someone has assembled a set of particularly rare coins (as far as I have seen) that to sell for a premium but these seem to be genuinely rare coins / sets of coins that perhaps could not be assembled again

Best

Dicker

[monkstax]

1 hour ago, dicker said:

The above comments are spot on. My thoughts are....

• Quite a lot of people enjoy collecting sets i.e. going backwards and collecting coins issued in the past as well as buying coins as they are issued.  The QB's series is a good example.  
• The joy is often getting assembling a set with hard to obtain older issues
• Large sets are (clearly) more expensive than buying individual coins, and a lot of people don't have the money to buy(for example) a complete set of 1oz gold QB's in one hit
• There are exceptions to the rule where someone has assembled a set of particularly rare coins (as far as I have seen) that to sell for a premium but these seem to be genuinely rare coins / sets of coins that perhaps could not be assembled again

Best

Dicker

Thanks for your helpful comment!

[TeaTime]

Most people (not all) do not want to buy sets of coins unless there is a financial advantage in doing so. Imagine that someone owns 1, 2 or 3 coins from a finite set - why would they consider buying a whole set when they only need the remaining coins. There is also the aspect that collectors of sets generally want to accumulate the coins over a period of time to satisfy the collecting aspect.. Obviously there is the cost to consider as well. Buying full sets of anything may not be possible for the average collector.

Unless a particular set of coins has a limited mintage and is popular enough to appeal to a mass audience there is little to be gained in offering whole sets for sale. Finding coins that are both popular and relatively rare is no easy feat.

As for buying the first coin in a limited issue set - i have mostly found that issue 2 or 3 is the one to bulk buy. A lot of people will purchase the first coin in a set, not so many the subsequent coins.

 

[monkstax]

44 minutes ago, TeaTime said:

Most people (not all) do not want to buy sets of coins unless there is a financial advantage in doing so. Imagine that someone owns 1, 2 or 3 coins from a finite set - why would they consider buying a whole set when they only need the remaining coins. There is also the aspect that collectors of sets generally want to accumulate the coins over a period of time to satisfy the collecting aspect.. Obviously there is the cost to consider as well. Buying full sets of anything may not be possible for the average collector.

Unless a particular set of coins has a limited mintage and is popular enough to appeal to a mass audience there is little to be gained in offering whole sets for sale. Finding coins that are both popular and relatively rare is no easy feat.

As for buying the first coin in a limited issue set - i have mostly found that issue 2 or 3 is the one to bulk buy. A lot of people will purchase the first coin in a set, not so many the subsequent coins.

 

Thanks! Interesting points re coins 2 + 3, 

[Lyrinn]

I find that if a set has more than, say, around 6No. (half a dozen) coins in the set, then you're going to start struggling to sell a "complete" set to someone else. As others have noted above, people tend to buy the coins they like, or only need the odd coin to fill a gap here and there in their collection, rather than a "complete" set.

Even then buyers - and I am guilty of this myself - ask about getting a discount on buying a larger bulk of silver.

For example, you buy 10No. 1oz coins for £50.00 each, spending £500.00. A buyer would ask if you would accept £475.00 (or less!) when buying the complete set from you in the future. Or, you would ask £52.50 per coin and hope to sell them all, running the risk that you end up holding 1 or 2 of them.

It's not as straight-forward as that, but I'm sure you get my point.

[monkstax]

Just now, Lyrinn said:

I find that if a set has more than, say, around 6No. (half a dozen) coins in the set, then you're going to start struggling to sell a "complete" set to someone else. As others have noted above, people tend to buy the coins they like, or only need the odd coin to fill a gap here and there in their collection, rather than a "complete" set.

Even then buyers - and I am guilty of this myself - ask about getting a discount on buying a larger bulk of silver.

For example, you buy 10No. 1oz coins for £50.00 each, spending £500.00. A buyer would ask if you would accept £475.00 (or less!) when buying the complete set from you in the future. Or, you would ask £52.50 per coin and hope to sell them all, running the risk that you end up holding 1 or 2 of them.

It's not as straight-forward as that, but I'm sure you get my point.

I see- It seems like it is better to just buy the individual coins that you think will be popular in the future rather than a whole set?

[TeaTime]

Either popular coins - and who knows what will be popular, or those with a lower mintage (which is difficult to ascertain with bullion issues - the RM, for instance, doesn't release mintage figures until the following year - if at all).

Bottom line - buy what appeals to you and enjoy owning what you buy. If the stars align you may make a couple of quid and if they don't - well, who can put a price on fondling precious metal ? 😁

 

[Lyrinn]

2 hours ago, monkstax said:

I see- It seems like it is better to just buy the individual coins that you think will be popular in the future rather than a whole set?

As @TeaTime has just noted, knowing what will be popular is impossible. The exception are the limited ones from, say, the RM, but these don't come around often and you'll find that it's lottery (to a degree) on getting into a queue to buy one in literal minutes before they are gone.

If you want the best coins (in terms of liquidity) getting sovs is a good idea - you can sell them off easily (think around £350 is current trend) and in smaller amounts, rather than putting all your eggs into, say, a 1oz gold coin (around £1500 at the moment). Think of it as you having to sell one of your coins to cover an unexpected bill (let's say it's £300, so, one sov will do it). You need to consider who/how big the market will be. The bigger in size/weight you go, the smaller your pool is, as less people will be able to shell out for bigger, single purchases.

Choice is yours, no one can really give you advice beyond that. PM's are a financial decision you need to judge for yourself. A lot of us like to have PMs because we can actually physically hold the asset that we own, which brings comfort.

Case in point, this is the coin that is my profile picture. https://www.powercoin.it/en/helvetic-mint/5562-euryale-dark-beauties-silver-coin-2-niue-2021.html

[monkstax]

18 minutes ago, Lyrinn said:

As @TeaTime has just noted, knowing what will be popular is impossible. The exception are the limited ones from, say, the RM, but these don't come around often and you'll find that it's lottery (to a degree) on getting into a queue to buy one in literal minutes before they are gone.

If you want the best coins (in terms of liquidity) getting sovs is a good idea - you can sell them off easily (think around £350 is current trend) and in smaller amounts, rather than putting all your eggs into, say, a 1oz gold coin (around £1500 at the moment). Think of it as you having to sell one of your coins to cover an unexpected bill (let's say it's £300, so, one sov will do it). You need to consider who/how big the market will be. The bigger in size/weight you go, the smaller your pool is, as less people will be able to shell out for bigger, single purchases.

Choice is yours, no one can really give you advice beyond that. PM's are a financial decision you need to judge for yourself. A lot of us like to have PMs because we can actually physically hold the asset that we own, which brings comfort.

Case in point, this is the coin that is my profile picture. https://www.powercoin.it/en/helvetic-mint/5562-euryale-dark-beauties-silver-coin-2-niue-2021.html

That is a truly beautiful coin! I guess I just have to go with whatever coins catch my fancy