1692 Guinea query for the numismatists

[bilko]

I have just gotten the chance to. pick up this coin says in fair condition but very rare, I am seriously considering it and wonder if I get it if its a better long term buy. or quick flip? I will update here when I get it depending on price obviously.

[SidS]

I would err on the side of long term buy to be honest. I've just acquired a 2022 Spink catalogue and compared it to my 2000 catalogue and my Early Milled has done well. (Hammered really hasn't).

Beware of ex-mounts though, they will still appreciate in value, and on a coin so rare it won't totally kill all the numismatic interest, but it will dampen it quite a bit.

I haven't bothered with gold in years, but I have been acquiring low grade early milled silver coins, generally fair to very low VF condition (mostly problem free).  I bought a lot back in 2015-2018 and they've appreciated quite nicely both on the Spink prices and also what I see browsing eBay. I was picking F condition Lima halfcrowns for about £25-£40 and Charles II crowns in Fair for about £25-£40, William III at about £20-£25 a pop. Can't even buy a Vicky crown on eBay now for less than about £30.

Edited March 1, 2022 by SidS

[bilko]

thanks for. the reply, I was thinking about trading it for Sovereigns tbh as they are my go to gold coins and only one I could find is out of stock on bullion by gold, until I get the coin delivered as. I have pulled the trigger on it their price of 1747 pounds is significantly more than I paid even if. it is probably a better grade than mine, I also picked up a Germany, Prussia, Wilhelm I, gold 10-Mark 1879A (KM 504). Very fine and a USA, gold 1-Dollar dated 1868, a modern copy, 18ct., 1.6g. Extremely fine. both to me seemed like a good deal so if I could recoup what I paid for all 3 by. selling. the guinea I think I would. be happy

[SidS]

I've never had any problems selling guineas. I used to have a few.

By way of example. I bought a GF (at best) James II half guinea for £225 back in 2002, sold it in 2008 for about £500, which was a very nice turn around I thought.

[stackerp5]

@Leonmarsh might be either interested or able to help  

[bilko]

so. received coin and would be very interested in feedback from the experts out there, on both ball park price and grade as I said not an expert but it doesn't look fair condition certainly on the rear

Edited March 4, 2022 by bilko

[sovereignsteve]

I may be way out of date with guinea prices but personally think £1700 plus is way too high. IMO it just about gets into the Fair condition category, certainly not Fine.

My 2019 copy of Spink gives a value of £1000 for an example in Fine grade and that would be retail price.

[bilko]

that's the kind of info I was looking for but struggled to find online, it does seem very rare especially the elephant one as the one I found was only one and had sold at the price mentioned

Edited March 5, 2022 by bilko

[SidS]

It's the elephant variety which is a much rarer piece.

My advice is to sit tight on it for a good few years. The purchase price might have been on the high side at the moment, but the way coins of this era have risen over the last decade, it will most likely turn out to be a good purchase long term.

William and Mary coins are hard to find at book prices to be fair. Either the book prices are out of whack or the dealers across the board all ask way too much.

Past auction prices always seem to be lower than you'd see elsewhere, but then they never tell you what was actually paid once all the fees were added on. So the early milled markets a hard one at times. Plus we don't know the mintage numbers for the series either. So rarity is harder to ascertain.

The only question I ask is, has it been mounted or cleaned at any point? This will lower the value.

[bilko]

honestly I don't know enough about cleaning and mounting to make an educated guess, pictures are of the coin but they would be hard to judge

[Stuntman]

Well it's certainly an interesting and rare coin.

I agree with @sovereignsteve that it would grade less than Fine and I'd put it as about Fair (on old-style UK grading).  I think it has been cleaned and/or polished over the years and it's missing the top part of the crown/the date.  This might just be from striking (quite likely) but it might be from it previously been mounted.

I agree that the price paid is high, certainly higher that what I would look to pay for it, but it is sometimes a case of "find me another one" for coins of this type, age and rarity.  My usual cursory internet searches of coin auctions and reputable dealers couldn't find a documented sale of one.

Enjoy being the custodian!

[SidS]

I concur with @Stuntman .

Talking of 'find me another one' - it took me years to find a James II sixpence. Finding George I sixpences that aren't 1723 is near impossible it seems.

Edward VI gold crowns, I have never seen one for sale, they're always 'sold' or unavailable.

There's a lot to be said for rare coins.

 

 

[Stuntman]

Thankfully I'm not looking to go deep into the early milled rabbitholes for either silver or gold (and earlier if you're talking about Edward VI gold, too brave for me!)

I managed to buy a serviceable example of a Charles II, James II and William & Mary shilling back in 2016 when one of the reputable coin dealers had a big collection of early milled coins for sale.  Some of these shillings were very keenly priced and if I had known more at the time, I would have pushed the boat out and tried to secure a couple more of them (a 1684 Charles II in particular)

Here they are - any excuse to show some early milled coins, and the tenuous link to this thread is that my W&M shilling also dates from 1692.  The James II coin is the most valuable of the three and it's one of my favourite pieces of history.  The W&M is the least valuable of the three but it has the most pleasing design, IMO.

 

[bilko]

fantastic to hear more knowledgable views than my own, it was listed as fair when I bought it so don't have a problem with that I just wasnt sure if it was that high of a grade but this is by far the oldest coin I own so nothing to judge it against but after the comments I think keeping it rather than attempting a quick swap for sovereigns is where Im at currently  im guessing grading it wouldn't be beneficial for such a low grade?

[sovereignsteve]

General rule of thumb; if you can read the legend, the coin is a least fair grade.

[SidS]

15 hours ago, Stuntman said:

Thankfully I'm not looking to go deep into the early milled rabbitholes for either silver or gold (and earlier if you're talking about Edward VI gold, too brave for me!)

I managed to buy a serviceable example of a Charles II, James II and William & Mary shilling back in 2016 when one of the reputable coin dealers had a big collection of early milled coins for sale.  Some of these shillings were very keenly priced and if I had known more at the time, I would have pushed the boat out and tried to secure a couple more of them (a 1684 Charles II in particular)

Here they are - any excuse to show some early milled coins, and the tenuous link to this thread is that my W&M shilling also dates from 1692.  The James II coin is the most valuable of the three and it's one of my favourite pieces of history.  The W&M is the least valuable of the three but it has the most pleasing design, IMO.

 

Best era of British coinage imho.

Whilst the reverses might lack relief, they're certainly well balanced and effective.

The obverses though are so intricate and decent relief. The silver coins always look better than the gold coins to me as they have draped busts rather than cut off at the neck, so there's more design and detail to go at.

My favourites are Charles II and George II young head, I think the detailing on George's armour is great.

 

 

[Stuntman]

George II young head you say? 😉

Here's my 1739 Roses shilling.  I'd love a decent crown or halfcrown from this era, but I am trying really hard to resist any further predecimal temptation, otherwise my savings will be entirely ruined!  I've been on the wagon so-to-speak for over 3 years now.  At least this has meant I can buy some 21st century gold, silver and platinum bullion instead, so it's not all bad!

 

[SidS]

That's a beauty! So much history in these.

Roses - silver from Cornwall and the West Country was used to make this coin. I love the fact they included the provenance of the metal on the coins themselves.

[simmstacks]

Have to agree my favourite era of coinage got this George II young head 1728 plumes sixpence last year.