miss-aligned sovereign error value

[Chris99a]

Does an error sovereign add or decrease value from the coin? I have recently purchsed an old head sovereign and initaly thought it was a very good aunc coin. then I put it into a coin capsual and noticed when the reverse was perfectly streight in the capsule, the queens head was at a 45 degree angle to the right oposed to it being streight too. does this effect the value/ appeal of the coin? Speaking for myself its a put off but I dont know what the market rule on such errors is. I have tried attaching an image but I'm new here and did not manage it

 

thanks in advance everyone

[Chris99a]

its a 1896 M 

should have mentioned

[dicker]

Interesting one. I don’t know a direct answer to your question as I have not seen one sold - or have missed this error.  
 

@sovereignsteve?

Best

Dicker

[sellerstacker]

Die rotation errors are fairly common. However, error coins are always dearer. That said, we are only looking at a 10 to 15% premium on a 45 degree die rotation.

A 180 degree die rotation on the other hand is very desirable as these are thought of as inverted axis coins. Very rare and very desirable indeed!!!

[sovereignsteve]

17 minutes ago, sellerstacker said:

Die rotation errors are fairly common. However, error coins are always dearer. That said, we are only looking at a 10 to 15% premium on a 45 degree die rotation.

A 180 degree die rotation on the other hand is very desirable as these are thought of as inverted axis coins. Very rare and very desirable indeed!!!

I would generally agree. I wouldn't say they were common but certainly not uncommon. I wouldn't pay a premium myself as I consider them a manufacturing defect not a mint error

[CollectorNo1]

Can you post photos showing the error?Split photo obverse and reverse ..side by side?

[Chris99a]

5 minutes ago, CollectorNo1 said:

Can you post photos showing the error?Split photo obverse and reverse ..side by side?

I am struggling to attach photos, it keeps saying too large to send but if you put a sovereign fully streight in a square capule on the side with St George, the turned it over Victoria would be at a 45 degree angle facing downwards so turned to the right 

[Chris99a]

Just now, Chris99a said:

I am struggling to attach photos, it keeps saying too large to send but if you put a sovereign fully streight in a square capule on the side with St George, the turned it over Victoria would be at a 45 degree angle facing downwards so turned to the right 

the bottom right corner of the vail would be nearly half way up the coin

[CollectorNo1]

Right, think I have the picture as @sovreignsteve said a 180 degree is very desirable.. but with an error at 45 degrees you would still command a nice premium I think ..there are alot of collectors that love errors and different varieties, premiums always depend on the rarity.  I see the older sovreigns i.e Victorian with rarities,overstruck date, serifs missing on the wording around the coin command very high premiums... 

[Booky586]

I had a £2 coin, date 2015, with a die rotation error of about 90 degrees (photos below). It's was a circulated coin worth £2, in average condition, and sold for over £50 on eBay.

It's not a sovereign, so it's not a direct comparison, but it gives you an indication of the market for this kind of error.

[LawrenceChard]

15 minutes ago, Chris99a said:

its a 1896 M 

should have mentioned

Is that a tufted Wilton? 🙂

 

[CollectorNo1]

3 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

Is that a tufted Wilton? 🙂

 

What on Earth is a tufted Wilton???????🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

[sovereignsteve]

4 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

Is that a tufted Wilton? 🙂

 

No, a twist pile

1 minute ago, CollectorNo1 said:

What on Earth is a tufted Wilton???????🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

some kind of duck I think😁

[CollectorNo1]

I thought it was some kind of pillow or bedding.....

[Chris99a]

I have managed to attach a photo. on the left is a standard half sovereign, and on the right is the full sovereign in question, both placed in the same position in the coin capsules, with St George full straight on the other side 

[sovereignsteve]

A fairly typical degree of die rotation you commonly see. Pretty insignificant imho, many people would own one and not notice. Grading/slabbing would draw it to your attention though.

I would only pay a premium for a 180 degree rotation that would mimick the difference between a coin vs medal alignment.

I could see someone getting excited by a perfect 90 degree rotation but that's about it.

[Chris99a]

thanks for the replies everyone. I have some other coins with different alignments, all young head Victoria`s, I dont think the alignement is anything special on these but just to check, they are all medal alignments so heads 180 degrees diferance to tails: 

1883 half crown 

1880 half crown 

1886 florin

1881 shilling 

1873 shilling (I think I read this was meant to be a coin alignment?)

1873 threepence 

anything different to what it should be there? Alignments are not my area, thanks in advance for replies  

[LawrenceChard]

Miss Aligned

I thought everyone might appreciate a Miss Aligned image:

I'm not sure which way round she would be best. 🙂

 

[LawrenceChard]

On 17/08/2021 at 15:15, Chris99a said:

Does an error sovereign add or decrease value from the coin? I have recently purchsed an old head sovereign and initaly thought it was a very good aunc coin. then I put it into a coin capsual and noticed when the reverse was perfectly streight in the capsule, the queens head was at a 45 degree angle to the right oposed to it being streight too. does this effect the value/ appeal of the coin? Speaking for myself its a put off but I dont know what the market rule on such errors is. I have tried attaching an image but I'm new here and did not manage it

 

thanks in advance everyone

 

20 hours ago, Chris99a said:

thanks for the replies everyone. I have some other coins with different alignments, all young head Victoria`s, I dont think the alignement is anything special on these but just to check, they are all medal alignments so heads 180 degrees diferance to tails: 

1883 half crown 

1880 half crown 

1886 florin

1881 shilling 

1873 shilling (I think I read this was meant to be a coin alignment?)

1873 threepence 

anything different to what it should be there? Alignments are not my area, thanks in advance for replies  

Now for more serious answers, compared with my earlier, slighlty flippant posts:

To your original post. surprisingly, die rotation on Victiorian sovereigns was never precise, whether on coin or medal alignment designs.

I always imagined that when the dies were installed in the coining press, that there would be some kind of "key" arrangement between the die and its anvil or trussel, to ensure that the die was in its exactly correct alignment, and would remain there until it was removed or replaced. It seems that I was wrong, and the precise alignment was never fixed, but was usually adjusted by eye and subjective human judgement of the die setter. What surprised me even more, was that apparently dies could sometimes revolve, and cause random variations in the alignment.

I am sure that on modern coining presses, there will be some form of keying arrangement to ensure uniformity, but I will try to remember to discuss this with some of the manufacturers the next time I attend the World Money Fair in Berlin. It is held in January or February each year, so conflicts with the ski season!

So, it does make your coin more interesting than normal, and as others have said, it may be worth sligthly more to an error collector.

You most recent post sounds like you have confused coin and medal alignment, and got them completely the wrong way round.

"they are all medal alignments so heads 180 degrees diferance to tails: " What you have described is actually coin alignment. (Of course, it does depend where you hold the coin when you flip it.)

This old page may help to clarify matters for you.

https://24carat.co.uk/headupsidedowninvertedreverseframe.html

or you may prefer the newer version:

https://www.chards.co.uk/blog/coin-and-medal-alignment-on-gold-sovereigns/145

This "1873 shilling (I think I read this was meant to be a coin alignment?)"

is really confusing. Are you saying its alignment is different from the 1881?

It sounds as though you have turned the whole subject of coin versus medal alignment in its head (or should that be tail?)

Now you have got me confused!

I hope you can clarify which alignment your coins actually are.

 

 

[Bruce06]

On 18/08/2021 at 21:42, Chris99a said:

thanks for the replies everyone. I have some other coins with different alignments, all young head Victoria`s, I dont think the alignement is anything special on these but just to check, they are all medal alignments so heads 180 degrees diferance to tails: 

1883 half crown 

1880 half crown 

1886 florin

1881 shilling 

1873 shilling (I think I read this was meant to be a coin alignment?)

1873 threepence 

anything different to what it should be there? Alignments are not my area, thanks in advance for replies  

Victoria young head florin, shilling and half crown alignments should be ↑↓, which is normal.

Edited August 20, 2021 by Bruce06