Greece

[HawkHybrid]

http://www.silver-phoenix500.com/article/greece-enters-its-crack-boom

 

'(CNBC) – Business has been so brisk in the giant Kotsovolos appliance and electronics store in this upper-middle-class suburb of Athens that you might think a sale was on.

But, no. It is panic buying, those who work here say. Increasingly concerned that greater economic trouble lies ahead of them, and limited in how much cash they can take out of banks, Greeks have been using their debit cards to buy ovens, refrigerators, dishwashers — anything tangible that can hold its value in troubled times.'

 

I'm surprised the greeks haven't cleared out the online pm's.

 

HH

[HelpingHands]

I can't see the point of buying these goods unless there is hyperinflation.

[Paul]

Read about extraordinary popular delusions and the madness of crowds psychology

 

Crowd psychology, also known as mob psychology, is a branch of social psychology.

 

Social psychologists have developed several theories for explaining the ways in which the psychology of a crowd differs from and interacts with that of the individuals within it.

 

Major theorists in crowd psychology include Gustave Le Bon, Gabriel Tarde, Sigmund Freud, and Steve Reicher.

 

This field relates to the behaviors and thought processes of both the individual crowd members and the crowd as an entity.

 

Crowd behavior is heavily influenced by the loss of responsibility of the individual and the impression of universality of behavior, both of which increase with the size of the crowd.

[Pipers]

I have just read this on zerohedge about the Greek pensioners 

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-09/global-war-pensions-gets-personal-scenes-dying-nation

[Abbotssilvercoins]

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/greek-proposals-serious-credible-hollande-085445654.html

 

are we heading towards a deal after all?

[junkyardbob]

Uncertainty should push the prices up... unless markets come to accept uncertainty as the new norm, and any upwards pressure on the spot price will be tempered by the strong US dollar. Unless you like in a place where the local currency is weak or weakening, then it will probably go up slightly more in the local currency than elsewhere. Or that's what I think anyway!

[sovereignsteve]

I can't see the point of buying these goods unless there is hyperinflation.

if they can buy them using euros they have now, it makes sense. If they go to the Drachma, their purchasing power will be severely reduced and any euros they have in the bank will be subject to confiscation to some degree.

[AuFinger]

Exactly, we're just as screwed as Greece. We're just a domino a bit further down the trail.

The global economic boom has overrun and we didn't stop borrowing in time by a decade or so.

A big messy unwind will eventually need to occur.

[AuFinger]

Uncertainty should push the prices up... unless markets come to accept uncertainty as the new norm, and any upwards pressure on the spot price will be tempered by the strong US dollar. Unless you like in a place where the local currency is weak or weakening, then it will probably go up slightly more in the local currency than elsewhere. Or that's what I think anyway!

The price is irrelevant if you can't swap into a safe widely accepted currency though.

Since all currencies are undermined debt based fiats on a collision course with being realised as seriously insolvent then why would you want to sell any silver until the mess has resolved?

[Clens92]

Anyone else finding it slightly odd that after 60% of the Greek people vote to reject austerity, Syriza have put together the most austere set of proposals to date?  They are playing very fast and very loose; I do not think this will end well for Greece or the EU.

[AuFinger]

It's an impossible situation that would never end well.

 

The Troika can't allow a write off of debt as it'll cause contaigon of the economic unrest through the rest of the debtor 'states' in the Euro currency.

 

But if they want someone to pay, ie, Greece, they have to pay forever. And only an idiot would do that. Greeks will vote again in sterner terms if their desires are ignored.

 

 

Even small concessions towards debt write-offs would cause havoc for the Euro and Troika, while also not really helping Greece any way.

 

 

 

There is simply NO good outcome. It's been allowed to go too far by greedy political and banker types.

 

Things won't end well for people who have been visibly seen as acting against the will and interests of the people they're meant to be representing.

[craig12]

i thought that the party said they wouldnt touch pensions,  they are now doing the opposite  23%vat and a increase in tax to 28%  how much egg is on tsiprias face   can they overthrow him      i think the downfall was the finance minister going  he was the farage of the party  now theyre weak  central bank 1   syriza  nil

[AuFinger]

Greece will be a petri dish for the responses in other indebted Western nations.

 

Lets see how the Greeks react, and then how the Troika and 'government' portray and then subdue them.

 

Poor buggers.

[craig12]

varafakous or whatever his name was  , he left   game over     he was standing up to em 

[Pete]

i thought that the party said they wouldnt touch pensions,  they are now doing the opposite  23%vat and a increase in tax to 28%  how much egg is on tsiprias face   can they overthrow him      i think the downfall was the finance minister going  he was the farage of the party  now theyre weak  central bank 1   syriza  nil

 

One of the reasons Greece got into this mess is that businesses avoided paying VAT and people avoided paying tax so the rates that are set are irrelevant for those who continue to cheat the system. The ordinary honest Greeks are getting punished but the tax avoidance problems need to be resolved. There are too many plush properties and yachts in the harbour from people who haven't paid their taxes.

[AuFinger]

Sounds like the big multinationals who make billions and pay zero taxes elsewhere in the world.

I wonder if we'll point the finger at them in our countries when the contagion spreads?

[KDave]

Others have said this already, but the Greek government made a big mistake getting rid of the only man who understood macro economics from the negotiating table. He was literally the only one looking at the situation from a realistic (and to me logical) long term perspective. Everyone else at the table was just another politician looking at the situation with their elected agenda first and foremost. 

 

Now he has gone its just a table of bickering politicians missing the big picture. The latest set of proposals by the Greek government is testament to this. Syriza has revealed to all that they are now just after another kick at the can. 

 

If they get it, nothing will have changed other than the time scale until eventual default. All this does is add more months of suffering. 

[junkyardbob]

The price is irrelevant if you can't swap into a safe widely accepted currency though.

Since all currencies are undermined debt based fiats on a collision course with being realised as seriously insolvent then why would you want to sell any silver until the mess has resolved?

 

If I really need the fiat cash to pay for medical bills, or car repairs, or loan repayments, or [insert business/service which doesn't accept PMs as payment here], then yes I would. 

[craig12]

i still dont understand what the reforendum was for ?    theyve ignored the greek people     havent they just voted 61% for no austerity

or did i just imagine that there was a reforendum 

[junkyardbob]

I think they assumed that the euro zone was going to do everything they could to keep them in. When it became apparent that the euro zone was going to let them tumble out, they chose the lesser of two evils. And lets remember that most of the Greek people want to stay in the euro zone and keep the euro.

[sovereignsteve]

Easiest thing in the world for Tsipras to be "bought off" in some way as soon as Varoufakis went.

[Pipers]

Typical of the Greeks, the thing is we will see now if Germany are being the deal breakers as the Greeks have said all along.

Remember Germany has never paid back a full debt, but insists on other countries paying Germany the full debt.

[FriedrichVonHayek]

Typical of the Greeks, the thing is we will see now if Germany are being the deal breakers as the Greeks have said all along.

Remember Germany has never paid back a full debt, but insists on other countries paying Germany the full debt.

A bit of humility from the Germans would be welcome considering the havoc and destruction they caused during the two world wars.

Even though hostilities ended 70 years ago there are still countries in Europe rebuilding infrastructure due to German wartime aggression.

The Germans seem to be getting a bit to big for their Jackboots again.

[a_a]

i still dont understand what the reforendum was for ?    theyve ignored the greek people     havent they just voted 61% for no austerity

or did i just imagine that there was a reforendum 

 

They voted wrong.

[a_a]

Remember Germany has never paid back a full debt, but insists on other countries paying Germany the full debt.

 

If it was only one country they had lent to, they might be more forgiving.

 

Unfortunately PIIS would also stop paying. And then don't forget that ALL the other EU countries are in the same unsustainable debt boat. Greece being allowed to get away with not paying basically means the EMZ is  dismantled.

 

Central planners didn't put this much effort and all those peoples' taxes into this, just to see it fall apart. Look at all the talk from Germany now about discipline and tighter integration. All or nothing now.