Silver China Panda 2000 coin - Fake or not?

[AlphaBeast]

I bought a Silver China Panda 2000 coin from an eBay seller (£131) with decent reviews etc. 

 

Got the coin, looks in good condition although temple side looks suspicious to me.

 

Magnet test - slides right off without any resistance (On real silver, it would stick and slide slowly)

Weighs 31.8g

Black nose on the panda (silver plating rubbing off)

 

Paypal are getting me a refund but the seller still seems to think I am making it all up and that he will take it to an independent expert to get it tested because apparently, I am a liar! 

 

So you let me know, from the pictures, what do you think? Fake or not?

 

[BackyardBullion]

Yep, that looks fake even from the pictures.

The seller can blow wind all he wants - he will get forced to refund and nothing he can do about independent testers will change that.

All are tactics to get you to call it off.

[AlphaBeast]

2 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

Yep, that looks fake even from the pictures.

The seller can blow wind all he wants - he will get forced to refund and nothing he can do about independent testers will change that.

All are tactics to get you to call it off.

I even explained to him why it might be fake etc and even told him to get in touch with the original seller to try and get it sorted (he bought it Feb 2017), have been nothing but nice to him but he just keeps brandishing me as though I am lying!!!

Funny thing is, if it was a genuine mirrored coin, it would be a steal at £131 and I wouldn't be disputing any of this to PP!

[Elements]

Can he give you bad feedback even if it turns out you are right? If so how can that be fair? I’m only relatively new to ebay

[AlphaBeast]

1 minute ago, Elements said:

Can he give you bad feedback even if it turns out you are right? If so how can that be fair? I’m only relatively new to ebay

Even if he does I can contest it, am sure eBay would hopefully understand. Guess the only way to combat it is to give a negative feedback to him.

The way he is being doesn't make me very happy especially at first things seems to be amicable but seems to gotten nasty with him calling me a liar etc! It's not my fault if he's been conned himself but you'd think someone would get their coins tested especially if they paid a high price for it - but apparently I am an 'amateur' (been doing this since Aug 2017) and he's probably been doing this for a long long time (just comes across as that kind of person!)

[Kookaburracollector]

Thats a very good fake (IMHO) 

I have just pulled out a load of genuine Pandas to compare to the photos and to me the date 2000 does not have the elegance of a genuine Panda. Would need a higher resolution picture to compare better but gut reaction is not good.

The seller may not have known but should admit to their error and pay up me thinks..their mistake not yours.

I once bought a fake Kookaburra of Ebay and they were great- I got a refund but they NEVER seem to ban people for selling fakes unfortunately..caveat emptor is there business motto I think..

 

its also really hard to leave negative feedback if I remember correctly, as once it’s gone to resolution centre, I think i lost the ability to do this..not sure.

Ebay is certainly a double edged sword, love it or hate it as we do..

 

[sovereignsteve]

I am curious as to the name of the seller. I had a similar episode a few months ago with a 1902 double sovereign. It wasn't fake but he didn't send me the coin I bid on and bought, but an old worn out bullion coin. He did have a lot of coins for sale and claimed to be a long standing dealer. He got very abusive, accusing me of scamming him etc.

PM me if you would, thanks.

[fehk2001]

4 hours ago, AlphaBeast said:

I even explained to him why it might be fake etc and even told him to get in touch with the original seller to try and get it sorted (he bought it Feb 2017), have been nothing but nice to him but he just keeps brandishing me as though I am lying!!!

Funny thing is, if it was a genuine mirrored coin, it would be a steal at £131 and I wouldn't be disputing any of this to PP!

didn't I told u within 3 seconds lol  it is fake 

1 hour ago, sovereignsteve said:

I am curious as to the name of the seller. I had a similar episode a few months ago with a 1902 double sovereign. It wasn't fake but he didn't send me the coin I bid on and bought, but an old worn out bullion coin. He did have a lot of coins for sale and claimed to be a long standing dealer. He got very abusive, accusing me of scamming him etc.

PM me if you would, thanks.

sovereignSTEVIE

[AlphaBeast]

20 hours ago, Kookaburracollector said:

Thats a very good fake (IMHO) 

I have just pulled out a load of genuine Pandas to compare to the photos and to me the date 2000 does not have the elegance of a genuine Panda. Would need a higher resolution picture to compare better but gut reaction is not good.

The seller may not have known but should admit to their error and pay up me thinks..their mistake not yours.

I once bought a fake Kookaburra of Ebay and they were great- I got a refund but they NEVER seem to ban people for selling fakes unfortunately..caveat emptor is there business motto I think..

 

its also really hard to leave negative feedback if I remember correctly, as once it’s gone to resolution centre, I think i lost the ability to do this..not sure.

Ebay is certainly a double edged sword, love it or hate it as we do..

 

It is a very good fake but some obvious tale-tell signs when I got it. Just the overall finish was too shiny! I have a genuine one as well so can tell the difference! Counterfeit panda is shiny whereas original panda is more matted. 

 

18 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

I am curious as to the name of the seller. I had a similar episode a few months ago with a 1902 double sovereign. It wasn't fake but he didn't send me the coin I bid on and bought, but an old worn out bullion coin. He did have a lot of coins for sale and claimed to be a long standing dealer. He got very abusive, accusing me of scamming him etc.

PM me if you would, thanks.

I will PM you!

18 hours ago, fehk2001 said:

didn't I told u within 3 seconds lol  it is fake 

sovereignSTEVIE

You did, but that was a different 2000, an original so you were wrong!

[AlphaBeast]

Seller is being a bit of an a***hole, calling me an amateur, (probably because myself as a person did tests, magnet, weight etc) and not a 'professional' James is the seller...

 

 

[Kookaburracollector]

Bernie Madoff was a professional...head of the NASDAQ for a while..didn’t stop him being one of the biggest crooks out there.

Suggest you forward the aggressive email to the resolution team and ask for the fecker to be banned for his behaviour...but to win you need to remain calm..hard as it is.

 

Best of luck and keep us informed as to how this works out

[matrawr]

Name and shame! Wouldn't want to fall for this guy. Fortunately I've never had any problem getting a refund on fakes and it's only happened maybe 3 times to me. but this guys customer service is not what you'd expect! You're a customer he shouldn't be like that especially if he's a business seller.

[AlphaBeast]

He's being very aggressive and for no reason! I am not even replying to him so think he's reading the messages on here as I told him I will get opinions of others but assuming he thinks everybody is an amateur here!

 

[augur]

Let him issue you a return label then. Since its a fake coin you didn't just have a change of mind, so postage is on him. Otherwise send it SD - those folks often pretend it got lost on the way back and then claim the full sales amount from eBay/Royal Mail. 

[matrawr]

Just make sure he doesn't try anything.

[daz]

Just a thing to note , it is illegal to send counterfeit items through the royal mail .  I pointed this out to eBay when they tried to make me return counterfeit items (not coins) they sent me a form to sign to confirm that I had destroyed the items then issued me a full refund. So seller is talking out of his arse.

 

See here 

Counterfeit items

If a buyer reports that an item is counterfeit and there are strong indicators that the item is counterfeit, eBay may not require the buyer to return the item to the seller. The buyer agrees to cooperate with us to ensure the proper disposal of the item. In such cases, we refund the buyer for the full cost of the item and original postage, and the seller reimburses us for the refund. The buyer may not sell the item on eBay or elsewhere.

 

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/safetycentre/counterfeits.html

[sovereignsteve]

6 minutes ago, daz said:

Just a thing to note , it is illegal to send counterfeit items through the royal mail .  I pointed this out to eBay when they tried to make me return counterfeit items (not coins) they sent me a form to sign to confirm that I had destroyed the items then issued me a full refund. So seller is talking out of his arse.

 

I suppose they could counter this by saying it hasn't been proved to be counterfeit yet, so return it for testing etc.

 

[daz]

Yes so take it to a jewellers for proper testing, might cost a few quid but will stop the seller selling it on to someone else , and if it is genuine then bonus .

I didn't have to have my items tested or verified as fake , I just sent them photos and outlined my concerns and they agreed to refund no hassle

[sovereignsteve]

5 hours ago, matrawr said:

Just make sure he doesn't try anything.

Indeed.

Obtain a returns label from Ebay and confirm with him and ebay that the address is correct.

The joker I had problems with had actually moved house (or so he said) and that ebay hadn't changed his address on file when he asked them to.

I used the ebay return label and it was delivered to a flat in Liverpool. Luckily the person there didn't accept it and told parcelforce he must have moved, so they eventually returned it to me, just before Christmas etc. Took an age. Things could have gone badly wrong at this point, and we're talking about a £750 coin.

When they did confirm his correct address (somewhere in North Wales), I sent it by special delivery. It took me ages to get a refund for postage from ebay. They were appalling with this matter; sent from pillar to post via several CS operators. Promised it, never happened, then someone decided I'd already been reimbursed so it was finished.

He kept saying he would get it inspected by a numismatist as if that would scare me off and that he'd file an ebay report against me for fraud and also contact the police but after I told him quite categorically that I had video and photographic evidence that the coin he sent me wasn't the one I bought and that I'd packed it back up to send to him, he went quiet

If there's one recommendation I'd make with ebay; never deal with their CS by message. It's some offshore service centre and they're bad. Always either phone them or better still ask for a return phone call. You always get some nice, helpful Irish person phone you back and they always deal with things efficiently and sort it out properly.

31 minutes ago, daz said:

Yes so take it to a jewellers for proper testing, might cost a few quid but will stop the seller selling it on to someone else , and if it is genuine then bonus .

I didn't have to have my items tested or verified as fake , I just sent them photos and outlined my concerns and they agreed to refund no hassle

Nice, I'll try that next time.

[fehk2001]

1 hour ago, sovereignsteve said:

Indeed.

Obtain a returns label from Ebay and confirm with him and ebay that the address is correct.

The joker I had problems with had actually moved house (or so he said) and that ebay hadn't changed his address on file when he asked them to.

I used the ebay return label and it was delivered to a flat in Liverpool. Luckily the person there didn't accept it and told parcelforce he must have moved, so they eventually returned it to me, just before Christmas etc. Took an age. Things could have gone badly wrong at this point, and we're talking about a £750 coin.

When they did confirm his correct address (somewhere in North Wales), I sent it by special delivery. It took me ages to get a refund for postage from ebay. They were appalling with this matter; sent from pillar to post via several CS operators. Promised it, never happened, then someone decided I'd already been reimbursed so it was finished.

He kept saying he would get it inspected by a numismatist as if that would scare me off and that he'd file an ebay report against me for fraud and also contact the police but after I told him quite categorically that I had video and photographic evidence that the coin he sent me wasn't the one I bought and that I'd packed it back up to send to him, he went quiet

If there's one recommendation I'd make with ebay; never deal with their CS by message. It's some offshore service centre and they're bad. Always either phone them or better still ask for a return phone call. You always get some nice, helpful Irish person phone you back and they always deal with things efficiently and sort it out properly.

Nice, I'll try that next time.

u told me u don't know much technology ...... now u seems very clever ! 

[sovereignsteve]

6 minutes ago, fehk2001 said:

u told me u don't know much technology ...... now u seems very clever ! 

I've always said on here that I video all unboxings and packings for anything valuable that I process from ebay.

[fehk2001]

17 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

I've always said on here that I video all unboxings and packings for anything valuable that I process from ebay.

I though u only video yourself undressing rather than unboxing  lol, that's what I get from u last time ( joking ) 

[sovereignsteve]

21 minutes ago, fehk2001 said:

I though u only video yourself undressing rather than unboxing  lol, that's what I get from u last time ( joking ) 

why, are you wanting a copy?

[fehk2001]

4 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

why, are you wanting a copy?

wow potential  discovery , don't tell me u ever make one like that  

[sovereignsteve]

Just now, fehk2001 said:

wow potential  discovery , don't tell me u ever make one like that  

you wouldn't believe what perversions I've taken part in, but don't tell the wife