richatthecroft

A very nice and what appears to be, a very honest and straight George V 1927 Silver Proof Set. 15,030 Proof Silver Sets were produced in 1927. The 1927 ‘Wreath’ Crown was the first Crown issued for George V and the first since the 1902 Edward VII Matte Proof Crown. It was an Impromptu Sunday evening eBay gamble. It’s been on my want list for quite some time and I don’t know why I left it quite so long- it’s a beautiful Set.

Thanks. It’s a good EF. It’ll likely Grade with NGC around an AU58.

I don’t believe I’ve ever been so captivated by a coin before 🙃

I think as many have already stated, £2k is a very large premium for a 1oz Bu coin with an unlimited mintage set by the RM. @Pampfan did a freedom of information request several years ago, I’ve linked to where you can find the figures below. At the time of the request there were 22,248 Units of the 1oz Lion sold- the RM didn’t respond to his subsequent FOI requests in terms of updated figures. I think as @dicker stated, £1600- £1700 is about the mark.

A Nicely toned George V Rocking Horse Crown

Both beautiful coins in their own way- I prefer the older 22ct Gold, the strike on them is pronounced and they are much more hardy- just a glance at a 999.9 Gold Brit seems to leave a mark on them! 😂

Thanks. Except when they have not gone to ground, but have resurfaced in a degree of quantity, as exemplified by the offer Chards have currently for the 2017 year date. As @LawrenceChard stated, Chards don't 'need' to sell their inventory of these 2017's but they have obviously bought plenty in, and as Lawrence stated 'we exercise sensible stock management'. As I stated in my initial post above, I am a fan of the Britannia and I do like larger denominations of the coin but all I'm saying is that paying any more than a sensible, low premium for Britannia issues that run into the many tens/ hundreds of thousands of units produced might not be a good idea, or need be- as per the Chards offer. I'm certainly not a Gold naysayer I continue to buy Gold, but my cautionary tale of paying large premiums for these beautiful Britannia coins- both Bu & Proof- comes from personal experience- granted, my experience is from the times of when the PM market was somewhat cooler- the effects of the pandemic have brought more buyers to the market and its been hot for quite some time. I'm certain that people who are lot more savvy than me can atest to the point I am attempting to put across, @Pete, @SilverMike @Roy @kneehow2018

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Agreed- debate and opinion is always good to have but I wanted to add some accuracy. If you read the OP's initial post, he is clearly very enthusiastic about the Britannia and if he's thinking about putting down a large wedge of his hard earned cash on a 2017 Britannia then he needs the question answered accurately. To this end, I wanted to provide him with accuracy- and to clarify, its irrelevant that 2017 marked the Anniversary of the Modern Sovereign in terms of the Sovereign release having any bearing on the premiums asked for a 2017 1oz Bu Britannia. To go further, I don't think @LawrenceChard accurately answered the question question the OP made: There is some common sense logic to what Lawrence stated but the fact is, a plain 2017 Britannia does not generally attract anymore premium than a freshly minted one- Chards actually have them on offer however; in 2017 a tiny amount of the 2017's- 7,030 to be precise, were struck with the Trident Privy mark (as opposed to 10's of thousands and likely over a hundred thousand of the plain 2017's) and it is these 30 Year Anniversary coins that might well attract premium, a point that Lawrence didn't pick up on (not that I expect him to pick up on everything) but in my opinion, that would explain why *some* 2017 Britannia coins attract premium. Chards have both varieties listed, (as do Bullion by Post- I picked this company because they often have listings of out of stock items, the 2017 Anniversary Britannia is often out of stock). Chards: Plain 2017- £1349 https://www.chards.co.uk/2017-gold-britannia-one-ounce-bullion-coin/883 Privy 2017- (indicative price out of stock price: £1423) https://www.chards.co.uk/2017-gold-britannia-30th-anniversary-one-ounce-bullion-coin/3366 Bullion By Post: Plain 2017- £1451 https://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/gold-coins/britannia-1oz-gold-coin/2017-britannia-one-ounce-gold-coin/ Privy 2017- (indicative price out of stock price: £1550) https://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/britannia-1oz-gold-coin/Specific-Year-Gold-Britannias-1oz/1oz-gold-britannia-anniversary-coin/ Hope this provides clarity to you and answers your question @rdhcustance

The OP didn't mention, or ask anything about Sovereigns. The title of his topic is 'Why the different prices for 'ordinary' Britannias?' But you did: And I was correcting your response, as with the upmost of respect, my opinion is that I don't think your initial statement is an accurate reflection of why 2017 Britannia Gold 1oz Bu coins command a higher premium.

2017 was indeed the 200th Anniversary of the Modern Sovereign- and as such, the 2017 Bu Sovereign and Half Sovereign are adorned with the 200 year Anniversary privy mark and the Proof issues and the Bu 5 Pound Sovereign and the SOTD Sovereign are resplendent with the Garter surrounding Pistrucci's George slaying the Dragon. The Trident Privy on the 2017 Britannia denotes the 30th Anniversary of the Britannia.

I’m a Britannia admirer too, lovely coins. My experience of them however, tells me that although they are chiefly a very nice design, particularly the early special design releases- they were produced in very high numbers, and I would be very wary of paying too high a premium for the Bu’s- ATS Bullion often have sales of them at 1- 2% above spot, including the special reverses. The Oriental Britannia was from memory, a three year issue from 2018, and these appear to attract a bit more interest- likely because of the 5,000 coin issue limit rather than the 10’s of thousands typically produced and sold in tubes. The same goes for premiums of the proof issues- particularly in larger denominations and full sets, again, from my experience be wary of paying high premiums- they are generally unloved and a hard sell- apart from some of the very low mintage later Proof releases notably (and obviously) the 2014 Proof issue. In terms of the question you posed of why the 2017 Britannia might attract more premium- I don’t think the 200th anniversary of the Sovereign has any consequence. The Britannia had its own anniversary in 2017- the 30th Anniversary of the Britannia. But not all 2017 Bu 1oz Gold Britannia coins were created equally- as per the photo below- a limited number- 7,030- were produced with a tiny Trident Privy mark- exemplified in the screenshot from the Chards website- these might well attract some premium, but my advice is tread carefully. Now you see it: Now you don’t:

Great result, lovely Sovereign 😃

Mike, maybe someone just simply has to have a shiny companion piece to go with this dusty and tarnished old coin...

Time to hang on to your Graces 😉

Agreed. Depending on the light/ angle you take the photo you can make the coin look like another! Here’s my 1937 5 Pound Reverse

I don’t think it’s a unique phenomenon here’s a PR67 DCam with obviously lesser, but similar hairlines https://www.pcgs.com/cert/31967971

It appears that some people out there have deep pockets- the Set is now Limited Stock!

Ah, I see that- and the limit for the 1oz is 260 so perhaps the other 10 might be offered as 1oz and 1/4oz sets by invitation and the other 100 Quarters sold in a commemorative newspaper edition or another special issue or another. I guess we’ll have to wait a while for actual mintage numbers.

Agreed, it would be very popular in Bu. The Quarter is far too higher mintage if you factor in the 300 Sets- I don’t think however, the Set will sell many units given the price.

Thanks. Yes we are delighted, she’s an overdue replacement to our old boy who sadly passed away last August however, I think in the meantime Fox has got used to being an only dog! I think the coin Gods smiled down on us, as all the QB’s arrived in lovely order and unusually, non requiring return 😃

A new addition to the family, a Whippet puppy named Mink, much to the dismay of our existing Whippet, Fox who is taking his time to adjust. Anyway, I’ve taken time off work this week to help out settling in the new addition and it’s given me time to snap a photo or two. Today arrived the 10 coin Silver 1/4oz Reverse Frosted Beasts set. After regretfully flipping all my Gold and Silver Beasts over the last several years, this set is a lovely momento of the series. The latter two photos depict the meeting of the clan- the tiny Beasts alongside the Silver Proof 5oz, 2oz & 1oz Completer’s and the Proof 1oz Gold. All you Beast fans, enjoy! 😉

You do have the assertive right to put your story forward and I applaud you and thank you for doing so. I wanted to put forward in my summary, in a considered manner, that I didn’t think @Nick1368 had done anything to insinuate any in-proprietary EXCEPT to highlight the blatant underhand and unethical actions of others. The heading AUCTION WARNING for me, was rather an ironic title to the topic rather than a shocking one. I’m old fashioned and remember the days pre- internet, of having to travel miles and miles to physical Auction Houses and bid in person, buy a catalogue and sit through hours and hours of lots just to get a chance of bidding on one or two lots of interest- and sometimes come away empty handed and at considerable cost in time, effort and petrol. From my personal experience, the same old derogatory and inflammatory discussions/ accusations have always being levelled by some people chattering among themselves toward Auction Houses/ Auctioneers, and chiefly with no actual evidence of impropriety of the establishment. But at the same time, I have had the occasion to know that I was cheated by an auctioneer taking bids off the wall and I had to call him out, this has only happened once to me to date, and I still believe that Auctioneers are generally straight, and I have rarely cited this 30 year old story- but it wouldn’t have stopped someone more vindictive from the chattering class, making accusations. Unfortunately (or fortunately) Louise, we are not in the past and platforms such as that god-awful Farcebook and Twatter or indeed Forums such as this are ripe for nurturing damaging commentary of your industry and unfounded gossip can potentially cause damage to businesses - and spread quickly to vast audiences unlike in the past, where audiences were tiny. The problem you have in the Auction industry is public perception. Much like Estate Agents, Politicians and Used Car Salesman is that there is, rightly or wrongly an element of mistrust as a starting point. But fortunately, most people will take an objective view and I would say only a small amount of people listen to the rubbish littering the internet in general, and most people will make their own minds up and not be influenced by the chattering classes. in terms of the pre-bidding you point out- I kind of see the point- but being a tight Yorkshireman, it’s not for me- I would hate being a potential maiden bidder!

@CoinsOfTheRealmAuctions As quoted from the initial post to his topic, Nick made it very clear which Auction House he was talking about in terms of the people citing that they have been involved in Shill bidding. He didn’t insinuate anything- he just pointed out what apparently ‘a few people’ had written and put in the public domain- and that they had done this shill previously- in terms of bidding on their own lots. He also stated that one person had ‘no regrets’ and ‘would do it again and again’. Louise, you have responded by stating the following- so it looks like you have processes in place to stop this from overtly happening. I’m guessing however, that anyone intent on involving themselves in this underhand practice won’t actually use their own customer account to carry out the shill but do so covertly. Louise, I am certainly not insinuating anything by my statement above, just pointing out that this practice could happen despite your best efforts. @Nick1368 cited a 2016 Half Sovereign and a person who apparently stated that due to a ‘faulty keyboard’ he had bid 20 times on a coin- and apparently didn’t win the coin. Given that you sold a 2016 Half Sovereign for almost 3 times your Auction guide price, then he was likely citing your Auction- but I guess, not insinuating anything- he was simply re-telling a story of what someone had put out in the public domain. Louise, in your response to Nick, you make it very clear that you would want your customers to get in touch with you if they experienced technical difficulties- and I’m pretty sure you would listen to the customer and sort it out too- but if the customer with the technical difficulties- in this case the customer who is the underbidder- doesn’t get in touch with you, then you will have no reason to think that customers bids were anything more than being placed with consideration and not due to technical reasons. To sum up, my interpretation is that @Nick1368 didn’t insinuate anything about the Coins of the Realm.

That’s the trouble with new- fangled technology like the keyboard, it malfunctions all the time, I always seem to end up with multiple items of food in my store cupboard due to the keyboard sticking whilst doing my internet shop and only the other day I sent over £2,500,000 to @Roy for an item I bought from him that cost £250 and @ChrisSilver bagged a couple of grand off me when I renewed my Silver Forum subscription- something really needs to be done about the unreliability of keyboard technology 🙄