2024 sovereigns: with or without streamer for St. George's helmet?

[RDHC]

The Royal Mint site seems to advertise a streamer on the double sovereign, but on the single the streamer appears - somewhat unconvincingly tacked on - only on the main image and not on the secondary ones. Dealers have 2024 sovereigns without the streamer (no doubles advertised as yet from them that I have seen). Not a big deal, you will say, unless you prefer a streamer as I do, but what about some degree of consistency from the Mint? Or perhaps I am being a bit autistic about this?

[Zhorro]

21 minutes ago, RDHC said:

The Royal Mint site seems to advertise a streamer on the double sovereign, but on the single the streamer appears - somewhat unconvincingly tacked on - only on the main image and not on the secondary ones. Dealers have 2024 sovereigns without the streamer (no doubles advertised as yet from them that I have seen). Not a big deal, you will say, unless you prefer a streamer as I do, but what about some degree of consistency from the Mint? Or perhaps I am being a bit autistic about this?

Yes, from 2009 the sovereign was issued without the streamer, but other coins in the series continued with it.  I think the reason for doing this was to make sure the sovereign was readily distinguishable from the half sovereign because in reality there is not that much difference in size, and in pictures it may not be that apparent.

[Petra]

Not sure where you are looking, however the double and quarter have the streamer, the single doesn’t. You’ll only buy the double and the quarter through the mint

[RDHC]

45 minutes ago, Petra said:

Not sure where you are looking, however the double and quarter have the streamer, the single doesn’t. You’ll only buy the double and the quarter through the mint

Yes, thank you, more or less my point about the single (shown by the Mint in one image only with a streamer but not fully attached even there). Perhaps we ought to be used by now to sloppiness from the Mint. 

[Petra]

1 hour ago, RDHC said:

Yes, thank you, more or less my point about the single (shown by the Mint in one image only with a streamer but not fully attached even there). Perhaps we ought to be used by now to sloppiness from the Mint. 

Not sure what you mean about the streamer not fully attached? The single doesn’t have one at all?

[Olivard]

I wish they'd be consistent and use the same image on all the sovereign range. Not bothered which one.

[Booky586]

4 hours ago, RDHC said:

on the single the streamer appears - somewhat unconvincingly tacked on

Do you have a link so we can have a look? 

[RDHC]

https://www.royalmint.com/sovereign/bullion/

This is the page, showing streamers on all four sovereigns, but just below there is an image of presumably the single sovereign with no streamer.

 The 'tacked-on' interpretation is my own because it looks as though the streamer must have been added artificially for those sovereigns that do not possess one as minted.

[SeverinDigsSovereigns]

1 hour ago, RDHC said:

https://www.royalmint.com/sovereign/bullion/

This is the page, showing streamers on all four sovereigns, but just below there is an image of presumably the single sovereign with no streamer.

 The 'tacked-on' interpretation is my own because it looks as though the streamer must have been added artificially for those sovereigns that do not possess one as minted.

The original St G didn't have one until 1887. However, the 1823 (perhaps the only double with St.G before 1887) had the streamer. Streamer also appeared on the George III crowns. 1/2 sovs did not feature St.G until 1893, and by then streamer was the standard. So it's all keeping with tradition that the £1 should have not the streamer while all others do.

Edited January 3 by SeverinDigsSovereigns

[GoldDiggerDave]

There’s been numerous reiterations of St Gorges streamer over the years with the type 3 reverse dies.

 

[JohnV66]

1 hour ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

There’s been numerous reiterations of St Gorges streamer over the years with the type 3 reverse dies.

 

I had no idea there were so many varieties. I've learned something today.

[RDHC]

16 hours ago, RDHC said:

https://www.royalmint.com/sovereign/bullion/

This is the page, showing streamers on all four sovereigns, but just below there is an image of presumably the single sovereign with no streamer.

 The 'tacked-on' interpretation is my own because it looks as though the streamer must have been added artificially for those sovereigns that do not possess one as minted.

Well I never, the Mint has now sharply modified the picture to show the single sovereign without its streamer. I hope that someone saw what I saw originally and can testify to the fact. I wasn't making it up. Must be a Mint mole on this forum.

[Olivard]

7 minutes ago, RDHC said:

Well I never, the Mint has now sharply modified the picture to show the single sovereign without its streamer. I hope that someone saw what I saw originally and can testify to the fact. I wasn't making it up. Must be a Mint mole on this forum.

I followed your link and you were right. 🧐

Can the mole please own up. 😂

Edited January 4 by Olivard

[RDHC]

5 minutes ago, Olivard said:

I followed your link and you were right. 🧐

Can the mole please own up. 😂

Thank you very much. Otherwise I might have thought that the Mint was simply 'gaslighting' me.

And, yes indeed, would the mole care to step forward and take a bow? 

This may be a useful, if rather minor, lesson for all of us  i.e. you never know who might be watching and reading what we post. I recall vividly on a totally different forum (about shooting) how we were warned to be careful what we wrote because it was believed that one or more County Firearms Departments surreptitiously paid attention to the subject matter and opinions in the various posts, not all of which were entirely complimentary about said Firearms Departments or the state of current shooting law.

[GoldDiggerDave]

1 hour ago, JohnV66 said:

I had no idea there were so many varieties. I've learned something today.

Also he face changes a lot.  Today he looks very similar to the face on the Statue of Liberty with prominent Roman features…..well I think they look similar. 
 

2024 proof and 1980 for a comparison, 

[SeverinDigsSovereigns]

11 hours ago, JohnV66 said:

I had no idea there were so many varieties. I've learned something today.

They used master tools to stamp the dies then hand carved some details. I guess this could be the reason. 

It's actually easier to carve things raised than incused, because they'd know the relief of different parts of the design. The master tools were handmade and hence all the differences.

https://www.royalmintmuseum.org.uk/collection/master-tools-and-dies/

These will need to be reworked from time to time, but far less frequent than the dies were remade. Say a punch lasted to make 100 dies, and each die was used to make 10,000 coins or more, for every million coins you remade the die 100 times and the punch only once.

The master tools were also used to counterstamp the spanish silver in the 1790s and until 1804.

Edited January 5 by SeverinDigsSovereigns

[Ranks1970]

I just read all the comments and I was not even aware off this, thanks for sharing still learning 👍🏿

[Britannia47]

When it comes to streamers & tails (short, medium and long) the sovereigns have more varieties than Heinz 57!
Anyway, 2 with, and 2 without streamers in the photo from different periods. I’m a bit confused about the latest change though….!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 6 by Britannia47