The Great Engravers series-Where to go from here?

[Jeffers46]

Good afternoon all,

I would like to gather the most esteemed opinions on the internet regarding this topic, from the best forum around.

This series started off so well, the Una and the Lion release strongly followed by the Three Graces. Since then, sentiment towards the series seems to have decreased, with the latest release, the Petition Crown, still available to buy direct from The Royal Mint. 

I know there have been concerns regarding the 2-coin issues, but isn't this required as the coins must have the current monarch on the obverse? Therefore to get both the obverse and reverse, the two coins would be necessary. In my opinion it worked quite well on the Gothic Crown, the depiction of Queen Victoria is stunning. 

Is it the designs? The price? Quality issues? The extra coin weights added post-Una? Something else?

Personally I find all the designs quite spectacular, I am yet to add the petition crown to my collection but I definitely will.

In your opinion, what does the series need to revive it to former glory?

I hear rumours of the George and Dragon design being the next release, hopefully this signals the Pistrucci Great Engraver era of coins and will go some way to achieving that, he has some phenomenal designs.

[SilverJacks]

The reduced demand could have been a reaction to the 2-coin issue being a perceived money-grab by RM. It's also just too many coins. It takes away from the product appeal, much like the Memorial sovereign was just too many sovereigns.

I can understand people enjoying the Victoria portrait, but what if they made a 1-coin Gothic Crown that had a gothic style Elizabeth II. That would've been something. And then a 1-coin petition crown with no Charles II, just the reverse and the edge lettering. I think the series would be in a better place right now if that happened.

That said, it's still an awesome series with lovely coins. The entire commemorative market has taken a hit in the current climate, so it was always going to be hard to keep it going.

I think Pistrucci is a real trump card for them to play. Get back to 1-coin releases, and reduce the mintage figures . It seems a bit cruel but keeping short supply adds to the appeal.

[stefffana]

It is a great series, but the Royal Mint release prices are in my opinion way too high.

So far, only Una and the Lion and Three Graces were able to hold/increase their value. The Gothic Crowns dropped very quick after releases and the collectors took a big hit.

As an example, Gothic Quartered Arms and Portrait 5oz silver were sold by Royal Mint with £555. After half of year, I have bought both of them graded PF69 with original boxes and documentations for only £320/each. 

A lot of forum members struggled to sell them way under the original prices and find only very few customers.

With new releases is always a lottery.

 

 

[ArgentSmith]

Easy money lots of froth, tight money zero froth. RM even increased mintages as the everything bubble started to wain, so that didnt help.

[9x883]

I think the graded/collector coins are taking a hit at the moment 

[stefffana]

I remember a lot forum members waiting hours in the queue and buying them in bulk for flipping after Una and Three Graces great success. Some of them did very well flipping in the same day for few tenners profit, others took the pain waiting for a bigger price.

[9x883]

I'm just sad I didn't grab a gold proof Kew gardens 50p a few years back😂

[jultorsk]

3 minutes ago, 9x883 said:

I'm just sad I didn't grab a gold proof Kew gardens 50p a few years back😂

I'm just sad I didn't buy the original Petition Crown a couple decades ago 

https://coins.ha.com/itm/great-britain/great-britain-charles-ii-silver-pattern-petition-crown-1663-ms62-ngc-/a/3113-31155.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

 

[9x883]

2 minutes ago, jultorsk said:

I'm just sad I didn't buy the original Petition Crown a couple decades ago 

https://coins.ha.com/itm/great-britain/great-britain-charles-ii-silver-pattern-petition-crown-1663-ms62-ngc-/a/3113-31155.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

 

MS62?!!!!!! 🧐🧐🧐 Psssh trash! 😂😂😂😂😉😉😉😉

[paulmerton]

12 minutes ago, 9x883 said:

I'm just sad I didn't grab a gold proof Kew gardens 50p a few years back😂

Would have been far better off spending an equivalent amount on cupronickel BU kew gardens 50ps!

[Sc391]

I’m with the crowd who believes we are in a coin overload phase.  I made the mistake of overpaying for the gothic portrait and quartered arms coins, but I still find the designs are classic.  The 5 ounce quartered arms is stunning.  The petition crown series took a hit with the production/shipment delays and the eventual cancellation of the 5 ounce, however I still think it’s a beautiful coin and a minting achievement.

This rumored Pistrucci coin has some real potential of breathing life back into the series, but only as a single coin release.  Two ounce or 5 ounce format will really showcase the design - especially in gold.

[9x883]

1 minute ago, Sc391 said:

I’m with the crowd who believes we are in a coin overload phase.  I made the mistake of overpaying for the gothic portrait and quartered arms coins, but I still find the designs are classic.  The 5 ounce quartered arms is stunning.  The petition crown series took a hit with the production/shipment delays and the eventual cancellation of the 5 ounce, however I still think it’s a beautiful coin and a minting achievement.

This rumored Pistrucci coin has some real potential of breathing life back into the series, but only as a single coin release.  Two ounce or 5 ounce format will really showcase the design - especially in gold.

What does this look like? 

[paulmerton]

11 minutes ago, 9x883 said:

What does this look like? 

Similar to an 1818-1820 crown I expect.

Edited December 30, 2023 by paulmerton

[Sc391]

From the chatter it seems like it would resemble the 2017 200th anniversary sovereign or the original 1817 George III sov.

[Chrisplym]

I am still learning so please bear with me. If the Pistrucci design has already been used on the 2017 sovereign why would the Royal Mint use it again?

[stefffana]

2 minutes ago, Chrisplym said:

I am still learning so please bear with me. If the Pistrucci design has already been used on the 2017 sovereign why would the Royal Mint use it again?

Probably because the series is "Great Engravers" and the first Pistrucci design have his place on here.

I dunno, only a supposition.

[paulmerton]

3 minutes ago, Chrisplym said:

I am still learning so please bear with me. If the Pistrucci design has already been used on the 2017 sovereign why would the Royal Mint use it again?

I think the key distinction will be the edge inscription, this making the coin more like a copy of the crown rather than the sov.

[SeverinDigsSovereigns]

11 hours ago, Jeffers46 said:

This series started off so well, 

The series didn't start well. Not in its own right but as a consequence of tonnes of covid free money and crypto gangsters.

 

11 hours ago, Jeffers46 said:

 

Is it the designs? The price? Quality issues? The extra coin weights added post-Una? Something else?

Personally I find all the designs quite spectacular, I am yet to add the petition crown to my collection but I definitely will.

In your opinion, what does the series need to revive it to former glory?

I hear rumours of the George and Dragon design being the next release, hopefully this signals the Pistrucci Great Engraver era of coins and will go some way to achieving that, he has some phenomenal designs.

The problem with PC is neither mintage nor design, but the terrible terrible quality issues. The rims are raised so much to resemble bottle lids. To think they did it so well 350 years ago with edge inscription and the rubbish they produce today with all the technology one has to question what has gone wrong with the mint, alas.

I probably won't buy the St G&D, but if they did the waterloo medal I think that's a strong buy,

[Silverlocks]

9 hours ago, Chrisplym said:

I am still learning so please bear with me. If the Pistrucci design has already been used on the 2017 sovereign why would the Royal Mint use it again?

Money, I should imagine.

[Jeffers46]

Thanks all for the comments. Very interesting. They have to go with Pistrucci...

Lets hope that when financial conditions improve for the nation that people return to collecting these types of series! My mortgage rate goes up soon and then I will have no spare cash for coins or crypto.