Memorial & Coronation SovereignProof Question/Advice

[lewisc]

Hello guys and gals I have a question about these particular proofs. Will these gain value in years to come more than most of the other sov proofs. Would it be a good dues to hold on for as long as possible ? What usually spikes these kind of niche sets to increase in price ? I have other questions as this thread evolves.  

[Orpster]

Special reverse sovereigns have always taken time to gain in popularity previously, all of them, 89/02/05/12.
The premium RM charge on proof these days mean if you buy from them directly you will 'lose' a chunk of value immediately.  But long term I suspect they will go up and become sought after as new buyers coming to the market want to get examples of all the special reverse.  Now is certainly the time to be picking them up, I have purchased quite a few of the half's for both the jubilee and memorial just because they were lower mintage than the full sovereigns.  I would not have done this had they not tanked so hard, but at the premium I have picked mine up I am very happy.  They went straight into storage though, just kept one of each in the safe in case I want to admire them

[Clockpuncher]

Completely agree with Orpster - track record is very supportive long term for the price growth of the special years.

I've seen PF70 memorial sovs trading around the £500-550 mark and PF70 coronations £550-600. I think if you picked them up at those prices, bunged them in a safe for 5-10 years and then came back odds are you would be pleasantly surprised at how they had done. Dont pay retail price for them though - second hand bargains in top grade at PF70 is the way forward for these two releases until the market settles down.

[refero]

They can gain value but as already said, it will take years . And if we are talking about 1 proof sov, we are talking about a very low amount of money

700 gbp today vs 8-900 in few years?

[Chrisplym]

5 hours ago, Clockpuncher said:

Completely agree with Orpster - track record is very supportive long term for the price growth of the special years.

I've seen PF70 memorial sovs trading around the £500-550 mark and PF70 coronations £550-600. I think if you picked them up at those prices, bunged them in a safe for 5-10 years and then came back odds are you would be pleasantly surprised at how they had done. Dont pay retail price for them though - second hand bargains in top grade at PF70 is the way forward for these two releases until the market settles down.

Hi @Clockpuncher I have seen PF70 memorials as low as £560 but not lower and the lowest price that I have seen for the PF70 coronation is about £650. Please share with me where you have seen them lower as I would also like to buy more. Cheers!

[tpcob303]

I have just had to send my 4 coin proof set back for full refund, story within itself due to a micro scratch on the double proof below the tail. Manager didn't want to refund me from the shop I bought the set from only just over a week ago (about 10 days total). Then was only going to offer me bullion instead of full refund. I did get the refund today, all €2850 of it have decided to buy a pre graded set for a few pounds more. 

 

I'm keeping them very long term along with the jubilee and memorial 4 coin proof sets I have and I think keeping them long term is a better option than immediately flipping them as the risk of LOI is greater due to the premiums dropping early on but long term you should recoup the cash. 

Will consider 2017 followed by 2002. 1989 premiums are very high so will probably avoid it even though it will be nice, just a question of affordability. Though would like to get some more 2022 piedfort plain edge coins over time as well. 

Right now is a great time to pick coronation, jubilee and memorial coins. 

 

[richatthecroft]

On 12/11/2023 at 11:53, lewisc said:

Hello guys and gals I have a question about these particular proofs. Will these gain value in years to come more than most of the other sov proofs. Would it be a good dues to hold on for as long as possible ? What usually spikes these kind of niche sets to increase in price ? I have other questions as this thread evolves.  

***Only my thoughts, not investment advice***

I'll try and keep this brief, but also try and put perspective to the question you ask by taking a deep dive into the 2017 Pistrucci 200 year Anniversary Proof Sovereign performance since release, and also comparing the premiums above spot on release day of the three 'Special' Sovereign releases subsequent to the 2017.

I think what's interesting and significant about the 2017 release in comparison to the two 2022 releases- The Platinum Jubilee and The Memorial as well as the 2023 Coronation issue was that the premiums the Royal Mint charged have remained fairly static, in fact, they 'slipped up' somewhat with the Platinum Jubilee release! they could have charged more to keep up their consistent premium markup!  

I'm pretty sure that investing in a 2017 Sovereign was a much more difficult ask, as compared to the 2022 Platinum Jubilee issue.  

I would say buyer fatigue (two Sovereign issues in 2022 followed quickly by the 2023 Coronation Issue) alongside a) the Royal Mint Price hikes & b) the market sentiment (cost of living hikes, interest rate hikes etc.etc) have affected current prices of the Memorial/ Coronation Sovereign.

Below exemplifies/compares the premiums over Gold Price of the 'special' Sovereigns:

The 2017 Elizabeth II Pistrucci 200th Anniversary Sovereign issue cost on release was: £480 (Gold Price was around the £1040/ oz),  making 96% premium over Gold Price

The 2022 Elizabeth II Platinum Jubilee Sovereign issue cost on release was:  £595 (Gold price was £1384/oz), only an 80% premium over Gold Price

The 2022 Charles III, Elizabeth II Memorial Sovereign issue cost on release was: £695 (Gold Price was £1497/oz), Making 97% premium over Gold Price.

The 2023 Charles III Coronation Sovereign cost on release was: £725 (Gold Price was £1496), making a 106% premium over Gold Price.

 

So, if we look at the performance of the 2017 Pistrucci Sovereign in more detail: 

I stand corrected, but the issue prices for the 2017 Pistrucci Sovereign were as follows (to the best of my knowledge), but remember, Spot Price was only £1040/oz and released late October 2016:

Quarter: £150

Half: £250

Sovereign: £480

Piedfort: £800 

SOTD: £500 

5 Sovereign Bu: £1785

3 Coin Set- (Sov to Quarter): £750

Premium 3 Coin Set- (2 Sov- Half):  £1450 

5 Coin set: £3295- (5 Sov- Quarter) £3295

There were no 4 coin (2 Sov to Quarter) Sets issued. 

https://agaunews.com/2017-sovereign-recreates-200yr-old-pistrucci-original/  

 

My observations of the market since the 2017 release are as follows

Following initial inertia on release of around a 15% price increase, there was a 'drop' in prices in late 2017- which saw the coins reset back to around release price for the Individual issues:  the Quarter were offered at around £150 and the Half's £250- £275 and the Sovereign £500- £525 sold as raw coins.  

It then slowly increased at the turn of 2018, over and above release price by a minimum of 10% and more prevalent at 20% over the release price raw,  but then we saw the initial steady rise from spring 2020 and then the meteoric rise from the turn of 2021.  The Sovereign now around £850 raw (£1050 top grade) 

The Piedfort (I believe the 2017 was the first Piedfort issue) was not too well received and the prices were dormant over release price until spring 2020- 2021 have seen these rapidly rise in price to around £1200 (£1500 graded today).  

I do know that I bought a 5 Pound 2017 Bu in March 2020 for £10 less than release price! and in keeping with the above, prices have risen sharply since to over £3k top grade. 

The 2017 3 coin raw (Sov through to Quarter) set was available on the secondary market between £800 and £900 up until spring 2020 however, the Premium 3 coin (2 Sovereign to Half 1400 mintage) set and particularly the 5 Coin set, 950 mintage have always kept huge premiums and then came the steady re-rate for these sets from 2020 onwards- and todays prices, as we know are extremely high the 5 coin set in top grade around £10k when available.

 

To conclude, I don't think the enthusiasm for the Sovereign, particularly 'Special' Sovereigns will disappear, it will always be loved and some releases will always be more prized and cherished over another.  You asked will the Memorial/ Coronation Sovereign gain value in years to come above other Proof Sovereigns?  

Well, nothing is set in stone, but the special releases all appear to be doing well, like @Orpster suspects, I also think that over time, they will appreciate somewhat, of course mintage and desirability will effect by how much they might increase- but there's never going to be a better time to buy them as @Chrisplym  @Clockpuncher & @tpcob303point out.  

Personally, I think the Platinum Jubilee will be the biggest winner in the mid term and perform well in the longer- likely a similar trajectory as the 2017 Pistrucci.   I'm not certain about the Memorial short to mid term but long term, its a winner, its a fantastic design.  

However, I think the biggest winner long term will be the Coronation Sovereign- particularly the higher denominations- over its 200 year history Coronation Sovereigns always do extremely well. 

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by richatthecroft